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Conference 7.286::space

Title:Space Exploration
Notice:Shuttle launch schedules, see Note 6
Moderator:PRAGMA::GRIFFIN
Created:Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:974
Total number of notes:18843

74.0. "Landing at Canaveral or Edwards" by REGINA::AUGERI () Wed Sep 04 1985 16:39

Why do we continue to land Shuttles at Edwards rather than Canaveral?  We
have made successful landings (at least one) at Canaveral, so what's the
problem?  I have heard that there was concern over high winds, but if this
is the problem and we have to continue to land at Edwards and ship the
units back to Canaveral on the back of a 747, I think the whole program
is a failure.  This is somewhat of a hardline attitude, but you have to
remember that the future of this program is supposed to support one
launch/landing per week -- they are building a second launch tower to
support the increase in flights.  Thus, landing at Edwards just doesn't
seem practical to me.

	Mike
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74.1SWATT::LEEBERThu Sep 05 1985 00:335
The local paper (Hudson,MA,USA) reports that the use of Edwards was due to
a brake lock-up problem, causing near blow-outs of the shuttle's tires on
landing. When corrected (date unknown) landings will resume at the cape.

Carl
74.2GOLD::ROLLERThu Sep 05 1985 08:5630
Landings at the Cape are not feasible for a number of reasons frmm time 
to time.  Briefly, the most often problems are:

1 - As mentioned in the first response, high winds, bad weather.  The
    shuttle, like any other aircraft has to have an alternate landing
    site if the weather conditions at the primary site are not 
    favorable.  Due to the nature of the shuttle, the number of 
    potential landing sites is very small. and therefore Edwards, being
    located significantly far away (thereby reducing the risk of bad
    weather there also) is the logical choice.  I say logical, because
    unlike a "regular" plane, the shuttle must begin it's descent to
    final while still on the other side of the world.  This means that 
    the mechanics are a little bit more than pull the throttle and 
    glide.  Edwards is a known, and all the right information for the 
    landing has already been calculated.

2 - The runway at the Cape is short!  Ya, I know it's 15k feet, but 
    with that much mass on dead stick, you don't have any room for
    mistakes.  Consider the fact that when the shuttle is carrying 
    the space lab, it's gross weight is significant.  Since it is not
    possible to fly the shuttle slower, the laws of physics and such say 
    that below Vso *** IT AIN'T GONNA FLY ***, that leaves the stopping
    up to the brakes.  While 15k feet is a long way, when you have to 
    disapate that much energy, you need a lot more runway.  

I too would prefer to see the shuttle landing at the Cape all the time,
but just like I always want to land my plane back at my home base,  
sometimes you have to make adjustments.

	Ken Roller
74.3ISTARI::HELSELThu Sep 05 1985 10:0223
As I remember from when I worked at the Cape, the main reason for shuttles
being waved off from landing or not being scheduled to land at KSC at all
was due to wet weather and winds.  The winds were easy to get around.  If
you are familiar with coastal meteorology, you'll know that lower atmosphere
cross winds are relatively calm in the very early morning (before 8:00 AM).

So, all shuttle landings at the Cape are scheduled just after dawn.  This
presents the other main problem.  In the early morning on a sub-tropical coast,
there is generally good cloud cover and upper atmospheric moisture.  The
Shuttle, upon reentry, is very, very hot.  The moisture gets in the cracks
between the tiles and reacts with the glue and fouls up the tiles.  No body
wants to see the tiles falling off upon reentry for both the added cost of
replacement as well as the likelyhood of injury to the crew.

Several times we all got in real early to watch the landing and hear the
BOOM.....BOOM.  I only remember 2 actually landing there and most were waved
off for another orbit and eventually a landing at Edwards due to cloudy
conditions.

This may cost a few extra dollars to piggy-back her back from CA, but if you've
ever stood under the orbiter and watched how much of a hassle it is to replace
just one tile (find one that's a perfect fit through variance testing) you'd
know what a major saving this is.
74.4SPAGS::GRIFFINFri Sep 06 1985 19:2816
Well, last I knew it was the tire blowout problem that was the
main reason they are *scheduling* landings at Edwards.  Diverting
to Edwards is always a good idea if the Cape isn't ideal. 

The tire problem is due the the way the shuttle steers when it is
on the ground.  The nose wheel is fixed, so steering is done by
braking the wing wheels (brake the right one and the plane veers
to the right).  This puts a lot of stress on the landing gear and
the tires (which apparently lock up now and then). 

The fix is a steerable nose wheel, which is being retrofitted
into the shuttles. 

Sounds like a cost-cutting measure that backfired...

- dave
74.5Viewing a Shuttle landing at Edwards AFBWRKSYS::KLAESN = R*fgfpneflfifaLTue Mar 20 1990 17:5366
From: [email protected] (Mary Shafer (OFV))
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle,sci.space,sci.aeronautics,sci.astro
Subject: Viewing the Space Shuttle landing
Date: 20 Mar 90 21:12:31 GMT
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
 
        There are four ways to see the Shuttle landing at Edwards AFB,
    listed in order of restrictiveness of access. 
 
     1.  The public viewing area on the lakebed.  Take Hwy 14 to Avenue
         F and follow the signs.  This area is opened about 2 days
         before the scheduled touchdown.  The viewing area is an
         unimproved area so don't expect many amenities.  I think that
         there are sanitary facilities and that food and drinks can be
         purchased.  It's suggested that you bring food and water
         Nothing is required for access to this area.  (I've never been
         to this area, so I can't speak from personal knowledge.) 
 
     2.  The hillside viewing area.  This is on the hillside, just
         above Ames-Dryden, and requires a special pass.  This pass is
         good for one vehicle, with any number of passengers.  You
         can't enter the Ames-Dryden complex but you can walk down the
         hill to the cafeteria and the giftshop, etc.  More amenities,
         including radio transmissions from the Shuttle and JSC.  Some
         of us believe that this area has the BEST view of the landing.
         
         These passes can be obtained by writing, as detailed below.
         Ames-Dryden employees can also obtain them.
         
     3.  Official guest.  Access to the Ames-Dryden complex.  You get
         to watch the landing from the ramp, which is right on the
         lakebed.  (The Shuttle lands some distance away, depending on
         which runway it uses.) The crew speaks to the crowd just
         before they return to JSC.  There are special aircraft
         displays (including the SR-71, F-15, F-18, X-29, etc.) in the
         hangars.  The radio transmissions are broadcast.
         
         You can write, as detailed below, to obtain these badges and
         parking permits.  Employees are allotted one car pass and four
         badges for family and friends.
         
     4.  Distinguished guest.  As 3 above, with the viewing being done
         from the complex roof.  This group includes the families and
         guests of the astronauts and notables (of a variety of
         types--Dick Rutan was at a recent landing) in the aerospace
         community, etc.  These people are invited by NASA management
         and the list is fairly small.
         
    To obtain a hillside pass or official guest badges, write to:
 
     NASA Ames-Dryden Flight Research Facility
     Attn:  Public Affairs Office
     P.O. Box 273
     Edwards, CA  92523-5000
     
    Do this early, because there is a limited amount of space.  If you
  get these and then discover that you can't attend, please try to pass
  them on to someone else who can use them.  Incidently, there is NO
  charge for any of these. 
 
    Come see the Shuttle land--it's great!
 
Mary Shafer  [email protected] or ames!skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer
         NASA Ames Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
                   Of course I don't speak for NASA

74.6DECWIN::FISHERPrune Juice: A Warrior's Drink!Wed Mar 21 1990 12:5416
I've been on the lakebed.  There were some concession stands run by various
and assorted Air Force groups.  There were portable toilets.  There were
zillions of people, including some non-trivial number with 2-meter radio setups
to pick up the rebroadcast of the NASA audio which some ham club kindly
broadcast.

The view is best classified as "OK".  With binocculars.  I was lucky...this was
Spacelab 1, which was in a high-inclination orbit.  This orbit meant that
there were two opportunites for landing daily..the ascending node and the
decending node.  They had planned to land in the morning, and in that case,
I would have seen it come and land more or less from a distance.  As it was,
though, a shuttle computer failure forced them to delay till the afternoon.
This time, the shuttle came in from the north and had to make a complete circle
around the HAC, right over our heads...it was fabulous!

Burns