[Search for users]
[Overall Top Noters]
[List of all Conferences]
[Download this site]
| Title: | FDDI - The Next Generation |
|
| Moderator: | NETCAD::STEFANI |
|
| Created: | Thu Apr 27 1989 |
| Last Modified: | Thu Jun 05 1997 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 2259 |
| Total number of notes: | 8590 |
2017.0. "SMT V6.2 and V7.3 are compatable ?" by DEKPS1::BYUNGHOONKAN () Fri Apr 19 1996 06:42
Dear,all !
I've had serious problem as below.
My question is SMT V6.2 and V7.3 are compatable ?
And My customer called me and he asked me 2 questions.
1. The revision SMT of LANC runs currently V6.2. So can we adjust the
parameters of GIGA switch as same as the SMT of LANC ?
If so, please let me know how and if not so, why !
Please would you kindly let me know !
2. They have also VAX7600 running VMS 6.1 and the DEMFA-AA (FDDI SAS device)is
installed in it.
But this does not work with LANC.But LANC works fine,so they manage to use
only Ethernet.
So my customer wants to know the revision of SMT for DEMFA-AA and DEFPA-DA
whitch is PCI to FDDI DAS device in AXP 8400 running DEC unix V3.2d.
Any comments will be appreciated.
Thanks in advanse.
Phil Kang / Pusan , Korea
<<< SCHOOL::CLUSTERFILES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GIGASWITCH.NOTE;1 >>>
-< GIGAswitch >-
================================================================================
Note 692.0 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 15 replies
DEKVC::BYUNGHOONKAN 63 lines 2-APR-1996 03:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello !
I have installed GIGA Switch since yesterday with
8400*2,2100*2 systems one of my big customer site.
But After 10-20 minutes ,All of Facom Network Protocol were
changed to inactive. They called it PU was down.
At this time I tried to ping to or Telnet to DSXXX ,it responsed.
After removing the cables from the GIGA Switch, it works fine.
I initialized GIGA Switch and test it,but same problem occurred.
So I can't connect the GIGA Switch in main network.
My question is I need to do something by using HUBwatch ?
If so , what should I do ?
The site configuration is as below.
Any comment will be appreciated.
This is very urgent issue.
Thank you & Best regards.
Phil Kang /Pusan,Korea
------------------------------------------- <== FDDI/Dual Ring
-------------------------------------------
| |
+--------------+ +------+
| | | 3Com |.............PC's
| | |Net- |
| 3Com | |BLD-2 |.............PC's
| 3GH | +------+
| |
| o o o o o | * PC to DS9xx : TCP/IP
| : : : : : | +--10Base2 * DS9xx to FACOM HOST : FNA
| : : : : : | |
| : : : : :.................DS909,DS908 Gateway (152.1.201.2.8~9)
| : : : : |
| : : : :...................DS907,DS906 " (152.1.201.2.7~6)
| : : : |
| : : :.....................DS905,DS904,DS903
| : : |
| ; :.......................DS902
| : |
+.:............+
: +-------Facom Network Architecture(Similar with SNA)
: |
:....................LANC......FACOM HOST (Model M1600) FACOM HOST
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
Communication Control Unit
================================================================================
Note 692.1 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 1 of 15
NPSS::MDLYONS "Michael D. Lyons DTN 226-6943" 6 lines 2-APR-1996 09:55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see no GIGAswitch/FDDI system in your diagram; regardless -
there is nothing you need to do to make the GIGAswitch/FDDI system
forward frames correctly. It does it out of the box.
Have you worked this through the appropriate customer support
center?
================================================================================
Note 692.2 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 2 of 15
NPSS::MDLYONS "Michael D. Lyons DTN 226-6943" 3 lines 2-APR-1996 09:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. Please identify exactly what a "Facom Network Protocol" consists
of. I assume it is a "legal" protocol, abiding by the applicable
standards.
================================================================================
Note 692.3 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 3 of 15
DEKPS1::BYUNGHOONKAN 38 lines 2-APR-1996 14:37
-< Comments. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I see no GIGAswitch/FDDI system in your diagram; regardless -
> there is nothing you need to do to make the GIGAswitch/FDDI system
> forward frames correctly. It does it out of the box.
First of all , thank you for quick reply.
I tried to connect the GIGA/FDDI to dual FDDI ring.
There are 4 DAS ports in GIGAswitch/FDDI. the remained 3 ports will be connected
to Alpha 8400*2,2100.
> P.S. Please identify exactly what a "Facom Network Protocol" consists
> of. I assume it is a "legal" protocol, abiding by the applicable
> standards.
FACOM computer is made by Japan, and its concept is almost same as IBM, I
think. But actully I did'nt know it exactly yet.
And it cannot be communicate TCP/IP with PCs, so LANC and DSxxx gateway
translate the FNA to TCP/IP, I think.
Today I'll contack FACOM network engineer in order to identify what a FNA
consists of.
According to customer,.(but I'm not sure.)
When 3com's engineer attempted to connect 3GH with FNA at the first time,
he met the similar problem.
So he configured destination gateway for the all ports of 3GH is DSxxx ,
not routers.( There are several routers in their network)
After this action done, the problem was disappeared.
But I'll check this history carefully.
Thank you again & best regards.
Phil Kang / Korea
================================================================================
Note 692.4 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 4 of 15
NPSS::MDLYONS "Michael D. Lyons DTN 226-6943" 15 lines 2-APR-1996 15:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The GIGAswitch/FDDI system is not an IP gateway/router, it is a MAC
level bridge/switch. It forwards frames based on the destination
address. Filters can be set up based on the source or destination
address, SNAP or SAP. However, out of the box, it just forwards all
well formed frames just like any bridge/switch would do.
My guess is that either the "FNA protocol" does not adhere to the
standards, or that your box is broken. The most likely explanation is
that one or more of the line cards are broken.
Protocol traces on both sides of the GIGAswitch/FDDI connections
are probably the most useful way to proceed, apart from swapping line
cards around...
MDL
================================================================================
Note 692.5 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 5 of 15
NPSS::MDLYONS "Michael D. Lyons DTN 226-6943" 4 lines 2-APR-1996 15:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you have collected the various FDDI and interface counters
and found nothing unusual....
MDL
================================================================================
Note 692.6 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 6 of 15
DEKPS1::BYUNGHOONKAN 139 lines 11-APR-1996 22:12
-< Another configuration & testing question. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear !
Thanks for your reply.
And I'd like to ask a question with another testing for this issue.
I connected and tested the HUB900 and GIGA Switch without 3GH
yesterady night.
Because 3GH broughter lost the permanent data in the EEPROM after connecting
the GIGA Switch for testing one week ago. Even the console of 3GH did not work.
My customer did not want to connect the 3GH with GIGA Switch and HUB900 together.
So I tested only the HUB900 and GIGA Switch.
The all Gateways were alive when I connected HUB900, so the operater of FACOM
computer attempted the gateway from active to inactive and again to active.
But once to change inactive , it could'nt be changed to active.
PING & Telnet worked at that time but FNA(PU & LU) was dead.
It mean if the gateway is down due to some reasons ,for example Line problem or
Network busy,FACOM system reboot,etc,..,it cannot be alive forever
with our HUB900 or GIGA switch.
According to operater, he met the problem that the gateway was inactive
2 or 3 times per month. And once he has found the problem, he could make it
active at once within few seconds.
At first time I tested to connect the only HUB900 and Gateway. And second time
I connected the GIGA Switch in main network and HUB900 to GIGA Switch,but same.
One of Network team guys told me the 3COM engineer had a same problem to connect
3GH with FACOM at first time. So He restored the MAC address in volatile
memory to permanent data base. This was the solution.
So I tried to find out same function in GIGA Switch and HUB900 by using HUBwatch.
to find and load MAC address automatically and restore as same as 3GH,but I
coudld not.
Is there any ideas ? Should we give up to sell the GIGA & HUB900 in this site ?
Any comment will be appreciated.
Thanks & Best regards,
Phil Kang / KOREA
1. Test configuration at first
----------------------------------------------------------- <== FDDI/Dual Ring
-----------------------------------------------------------
| | 152.1.100.1,8
+--------------+ +------+
| | | 3Com |.............PC's
| | |Net- |
| HUB900 | |BLD-2 |.............PC's
|152.1.211.14 | +------+
| |
| o o o o o o.....AXP2100 * PC to DS9xx : TCP/IP
| : : : : : | +--10Base2 * DS9xx to FACOM HOST : FNA
| : : : : : | |
| : : : : :.................DS909,DS908 Gateway (152.1.201.2.8~9)
| : : : : |
| : : : :...................DS907,DS906 " (152.1.201.2.7~6)
| : : : |
| : : :.....................DS905,DS904,DS903
| : : |
| ; :.......................DS902
| : |
+.:............+
: +-------Facom Network Architecture(Similar with SNA)
: |
:....................LANC......FACOM HOST (Model M1600) FACOM HOST
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
Communication Control Unit
The MAC address format are 00-00-0E-22-26-26 (DS02)
00-00-0E-22-25-BF (DS03)
00-00-OE-22-26-27 (DS04)
.
.
.
00-00-0E-22-26-4C (DS09)
2. Test configuration at second
----------------------------------------------------------- <== FDDI/Dual Ring
-----------------------------------------------------------
| | 152.1.100.1,8
+---------------+ +------+
| GIGA SWITCH | | 3Com |.............PC's
| | |Net- |
| o-------------------------AXP8400 |BLD-2 |.............PC's
| o-----------------------AXP8400 +------+
| o |
| | |
+-----|---------+
|
+--------------+
| |
| |
| HUB900 |
|152.1.211.13 |
| |
| o o o o o | * PC to DS9xx : TCP/IP
| : : : : : | +--10Base2 * DS9xx to FACOM HOST : FNA
| : : : : : | |
| : : : : :.................DS909,DS908 Gateway (152.1.201.2.8~9)
| : : : : |
| : : : :...................DS907,DS906 " (152.1.201.2.7~6)
| : : : |
| : : :.....................DS905,DS904,DS903
| : : |
| ; :.......................DS902
| : |
+.:............+
: +-------Facom Network Architecture(Similar with SNA)
: |
:....................LANC......FACOM HOST (Model M1600) FACOM HOST
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
Communication Control Unit
================================================================================
Note 692.7 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 7 of 15
NPSS::MDLYONS "Michael D. Lyons DTN 226-6943" 39 lines 12-APR-1996 15:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still don't understand what you are describing as the problem.
There is no reason to believe that anything needs to be done to
configure either the GIGAswitch/FDDI or 900 products to make them
forward well formed frames properly.
It sounds very much as if the bridge/switch devices are aging out
the addresses after the normal aging intervals have expired. This is
normal and expected behaviour. Even if someone is using a brain-dead
no-acknowledgement protocol, which would allow addresses to permanently
age out, frames would still get to the destination using flooding.
Of course, flooding is a *very bad* idea. The throughput available
for flooding is greatly reduced from unicast traffic. If the network
is based on protocols which require flooding, you might as well remove
the GIGAswitch/FDDI system - you are making it into a very expensive
repeater.
You have several options to pursue:
1) Find out how often the various systems involved send out frames.
Make certain that the aging timers on the bridges are longer than the
longest normal period between frames. This assumes that the
systems/protocols involved exchange frames on some *regular* and
*predictable* basis. Almost all reasonable protocols work this way.
It may very well be that the "FNA" protocol does not do this.
It may be a TCP vs UDP issue, or a broadcast based protocol. You need
to understand exactly how this "FNA protocol" works.
2) Make the various systems involved send frames out on a regular
basis. I.E. Have then send something out every 15 seconds, and the
addresses won't normally age out.
3) Hard code the forwarding databases for all the devices involved.
This is very undesireable since this makes it difficult to make changes
in the network. It basically defeats the entire learning process which
is what bridges/switchs are designed to do well.
!
================================================================================
Note 692.8 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 8 of 15
DEKPS1::BYUNGHOONKAN 0 lines 17-APR-1996 00:58
-< Can I downgrade SMT version ? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Note 692.10 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 10 of 15
NPSS::MDLYONS "Michael D. Lyons DTN 226-6943" 1 line 17-APR-1996 09:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No.
================================================================================
Note 692.11 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 11 of 15
NPSS::MDLYONS "Michael D. Lyons DTN 226-6943" 5 lines 17-APR-1996 11:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unless I misunderstand your diagram, the FACOM host is not on the
same FDDI ring as the GIGAswitch/FDDI system, so I don't understand why
the version of SMT would be relevant.
MDL
================================================================================
Note 692.12 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 12 of 15
NPSS::MDLYONS "Michael D. Lyons DTN 226-6943" 13 lines 17-APR-1996 11:55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. The only way to solve this is by understanding what this FACOM
device is doing. If it is using one of the standard protocols, then a
protocol trace on each side of the GIGAswitch/FDDI system should
suffice to figure out the problem. If they are using a custom
protocol, then we need to understand how it is implemented - it *must*
abide by the same rules as everyone else. Please find out exactly
which protocol stacks are in use, from top to bottom.
Lacking knowledge of the protocols involved, probably the easiest
thing to do is to put an analyzer on each side of the GIGAswitch/FDDI
system and screen out all the frames except those with the source and
destination addresses of a pair of systems which are involved in the
problem. This will at least identify the protocols involved.
================================================================================
Note 692.13 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 13 of 15
TKOV51::HAYAKAWA "Kouhei Hayakawa, NPB/MS, Osaka HU" 19 lines 18-APR-1996 00:30
-< DSLINK? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does "HUB900" mean DECswitch900EF?
If the answer is yes, I think this problem is out of all relation
to GIGAswitch/FDDI and FDDI spec. Because DS9xx communicate to FACOM
HOST via Ethernet.
GIGAswitch ============== DECswitch900EF
/FDDI FDDI | |
| |Ethernet(DSLINK?)
| |
DS9xx LANC ++++ FACOM HOST
Fujitsu called their Ethernet DSLINK. Fujitsu said that DSLINK is
compliant to IEEE802.3. But we think it is doubtful.
Can you analize frame format on Ethernet(DSLINK)?
Regards,
Kohei
================================================================================
Note 692.14 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 14 of 15
DEKPS1::BYUNGHOONKAN 57 lines 18-APR-1996 06:00
-< Answer. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear !
Thanks for your reply.
>> Does "HUB900" mean DECswitch900EF?
Yes.
>> If the answer is yes, I think this problem is out of all relation
>> to GIGAswitch/FDDI and FDDI spec. Because DS9xx communicate to FACOM
>> HOST via Ethernet.
>> GIGAswitch ============== DECswitch900EF
>> /FDDI FDDI | |
>> | |Ethernet(DSLINK?)
>> | |
>> DS9xx LANC ++++ FACOM HOST
I tested 3 ways as below but the result was same.
1. Test #1 Configuration
GIGAswitch ============== DECswitch900EF
/FDDI FDDI | |
| |FDDI (DSLINK?)
10base2 ---> | |
DS9xx LANC ++++ FACOM HOST
2. Test #2 Configuration
GIGAswitch ========================================== DECswitch900EF
/FDDI | FDDI |
|FDDI(DSLINK?) |
| 10base2 ---> |
LANC ++++ FACOM HOST DS9xx
3. Test #3 Configuration ( Without GIGA Switch )
====================== DECswitch900EF
FDDI | |
| |FDDI (DSLINK?)
10base2 ---> | |
DS9xx LANC ++++ FACOM HOST
>> Can you analize frame format on Ethernet(DSLINK)?
Frankly speeking, I can't analyze frame format,but there is an engineer in
Seoul who can do it.
If you need , I'll try to dump it and analyze it. My customer love "Digiatl"
and he was attrated GIGA Switch and want to purchase it storangly.
Thanks again & Best Regards,
Phil Kang / Pusan , Korea
================================================================================
Note 692.15 GIGA Swich cause to inactive FNA protocol ? 15 of 15
DEKPS1::BYUNGHOONKAN 26 lines 19-APR-1996 04:45
-< Another question ? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear !
Thank for kind help !
My customer called me and he asked me 2 questions.
1. The revision SMT of LANC runs currently V6.2. So can we adjust the
parameters of GIGA switch as same as the SMT of LANC ?
If so, please let me know how and if not so, why !
Please would you kindly let me know !
2. They have also VAX7600 and the DEMFA-AA (FDDI SAS device)is installed in it.
But this does not work with LANC.But LANC works fine,so they manage to use
only Ethernet.
So my customer wants to know the revision of SMT for DEMFA-AA and DEFPA-DA
whitch is PCI to FDDI DAS device in AXP 8400.
( I know this question is not related with this note conference).
Thanks in advanse.
Phil Kang / Pusan , Korea
| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 2017.1 | | NETCAD::STEFANI | | Fri Apr 19 1996 14:28 | 23 |
| >>My question is SMT V6.2 and V7.3 are compatable ?
The answer is YES. The University of New Hampshire FDDI
Interoperability Lab did a lot of testing on 6.2 and 7.3
interoperability and didn't find any major problems.
>>1. The revision SMT of LANC runs currently V6.2. So can we adjust the
>> parameters of GIGA switch as same as the SMT of LANC ?
>>
>> If so, please let me know how and if not so, why !
I don't follow GIGAswitch development, but I would strongly doubt that
they support a switch to downgrade the SMT revision. You shouldn't run
into problems having the GIGAswitch adhering to SMT 7.3.
>> So my customer wants to know the revision of SMT for DEMFA-AA and DEFPA-DA
>> whitch is PCI to FDDI DAS device in AXP 8400 running DEC unix V3.2d.
Don't know about DEMFA, but both the DEFEA and DEFPA families are at
SMT 7.3.
- Larry
|
| 2017.2 | SMT 7.3, any official documentation? | ROM01::GALLANA | Francesco Gallana | Thu Oct 03 1996 11:39 | 10 |
| 2017.3 | | NETCAD::STEFANI | | Thu Oct 03 1996 14:06 | 5
|