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Conference 7.286::fddi

Title:FDDI - The Next Generation
Moderator:NETCAD::STEFANI
Created:Thu Apr 27 1989
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2259
Total number of notes:8590

1338.0. "DECnis / FDDI / remote VAXcluster" by TROFS::WEBSTER (Netwerks-R-us) Wed May 18 1994 16:31

	We have a local customer that is about to setup a remote computing
centre. This site is 17Km away from the main site, which has a large FDDI ring
(6 DB500s, 2 DB600s and 2 DC500s) and a large Fibre Ethernet LAN (11 Chipcom 
hubs connecting about 40 buildings (with redundancy and fault tolerance)). The 
remote site is currently connected via DECnis 600s and a T1 link. The remote 
site also has an FDDI ring connecting 4 hubs (Cabletron).

	The main site LAN has a Local Area VAXcluster on it that is connected 
to both the FDDI ring and the Ethernet. The customer wants to move most of the
cluster to the remote site.

	They are concerned about this link possibly causing cluster state 
transistion affecting the network and hanging users. 

	With a T1 link, is it possible to set up this configuration or will
they require a T3 link and use the DL3000? I have very little knowledge in 
the VAXcluster area and do not know how a T1/T3 link would support these time
sensitive protocols.

	I have searched both the FDDI and DECnis notes files and the Sales 
Updates for more info on the DL3000 and remote vaxclusters, but have not found
the info I'm looking for. 

	Need a good solution for the customer. T3 is probably not a good 
solution, as it's availability is almost nil in Canada. Will frame relay
work?

	We have talked to the local telco, but they will not lease dark fibre
to the customer. Have talked to the local cable company, but they have no
plans to install any fibre for several years.


	-Larry Webster @DTN:624-4249
(cross posted in DECnis and FDDI notes files)
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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1338.1NPSS::WADENetwork Systems SupportThu May 19 1994 14:033
    Look in FILTON::MDF conf for remote VMScluster info.  But a T1 link is
    not supported for VMScluster communications; 10Mb is the minimum.
    
1338.2KAOFS::S_HYNDMANAcronym Decoder Ring ArchitectFri May 20 1994 12:108
    
    
    	I would probably recommend a Business Recovery Service aka MDF with
    GIGASWITCHes with T3 or ATM between switches.  Checkout the GIGASWITCH
    notes conference.
    
    
    Scott
1338.3How about high capacity microwave ?CHUKKA::SPEERskrowten - down underMon May 23 1994 02:4159
G'day,

The DL3000 is just about defunct in favour of GIGAswitch/T3 combination and 
you get heaps more functionality

BRS engineering are in the final throws of testing this in a BRS 
environment and should be fully supported early Q1/FY95

Here in Australia we have a customer that is running a 
VMScluster over T3 microwave using FDDI and DL3000 as the network 
infrastructure and has been in operation for nearly 12 months. We have 
another customer that is running VMScluster using GIGAswitch/T3 card as the 
network infrastructure.

In both cases we are using T3 microwave - max distance with 99.99% 
availability is around 30Km's, this can go up or down depending on terrain 
and annual rainfall. Incidentally, what really kills microwave is
instantaneous rain rate such as tropical rainstorms ? Which sometimes
you get out of the tropics but so long as the microwave link is engineered 
correctly down time can be managed to a minimum.

Anyway my point here is that microwave can be a cost effective alternative 
to carrier services, the difference being that your PTT connection is 
private and is usually consumed as capital expenditure rather than
recurring annual costs to the PTT. All that is required is line of sight, 
although it is possible to repeat microwave both passively and actively, it 
is then a matter of availability and cost. Here in Australia the COO model
can be as low as 9 months, ie PTT service vs private microwave.
Additionally the microwave system that we are using is being tested by CVG. 
And for those security minded, the microwave system that we use in fact 
scrambles the data at the microwave electronics so it is pretty difficult 
to eavesdrop on the data. All in all we think it a very attractive 
solution.

Another neat thing about using GIGAswitch/T3 is in fact the capability of the 
card to handle OC3 ATM which in theory can provide an elegant migration to 
the much touted switched ATM networks of the future. All we need is for 
engineering to take this next step in support of VMSclusters over a WAN.

I would be more than happy to discuss this further should anyone desire to 
do so either through this conference (sometimes it takes me a few days to 
get back to Notes) or by direct mail at CHUKKA::SPEER or Shelly Speer @SNO
or telephone DTN : 730 7033 or international : 61 2 561 7033 Just remember 
time zones :-).

For interest : the microwave system parent company is :

	ATI (advanced techcom inc.)
	439 South Union St
	Lawrence, MA 01843

	US Sales  : (508) 682 2515
	Int Sales : (508) 682 9750
	Fax 	  : (508) 682 5211

Ask for info on 23GHz and 18Ghz DS3 radio system.

Cheers
	Shelly
1338.4More info on the FDDI/T3/Microwave linkTROFS::WEBSTERNetwerks-R-usThu May 26 1994 15:5918
	Thanx for the info Shelly.

	Can you supply more info on the T3 microwave link? This has been 
mentioned to the customer, and surprised as I was, they were interested. The
2 sites are seperated by about 17Km, but there are several refineries just to
the edge of line of site. It may, it may not work. I have another note
running in the DECnis notes on this topic, and the customer is looking at
a cost effective way to implement their network requirements.

	But... I would be interested in more info on costing, were support
structure for mw dishes required and included in cost, implementation time,
etc...

	Either post here, as others may be interested, or send to

		TROOA::LWEBSTER

	-Larry
1338.5More on T3 microwaveCHUKKA::SPEERCooee, cobber, shark in a billabong bro !Fri May 27 1994 05:25355
G'day Larry,

I saw your notes in DECnis conference. To clarify the DL3000 first. It is 
in fact a combination of our DEFZA-AA card and Digital Link T3 technology.
Digital Link did the reengineering to glue the two pieces together. Now
that we have that piece of trivia out of the way, down to the good stuff. 

Presumably your customer is after a disaster tolerant computing environment 
and as such a decision needs to be made about the level of "availability" 
that is required. I am assuming that your customer has performed a business 
impact analysis and have generated from that, a disaster recovery plan.

This will determine how the VMScluster gets set up and managed. At the end 
of this note I have attached a sales update article which positions Business 
recovery server (BRS=managed) vs FDDI VMScluster (unmanaged), its worth an 
optic at the very least, if you haven't seen it already.

The config. at one of our sites is connecting DL3000 to DC500 boxes and 
hosts connected to FDDI. DECnis 600 is used as the FDDI to Ethernet 
interconnect and WAN cards as backup land line links using ST.

In the other site we have config. of GIGAswitch using AGL-2 line card, 
hosts connected to GIGAswitch, DECbridge 600 as the FDDI to Ethernet 
interconnect, existing TransLAN's as land line backup links.

As far as I am aware routed clusters are not supported. Bridged yes !

The problem with the first scenario is that all FDDI traffic regardless of 
which site it is in, is sent across the T3 service, meaning unnecessary 
traffic is being generated over the T3 link, this is a function of the 
DL3000. This is where it is much better to have GIGAswitch/T3 as GIGAswitch
will filter traffic off the T3 service, keeping bandwidth availability to a
maximum. 

GIGAswitch/AGL-2 uses ATM framing (AAL5) irrespective of whether 
you are using T3 or SONET physical interface. My understanding is that FDDI 
packet is encapsulated in AAL5 frame then broken into 53 byte ATM cells, 
loaded into T3 or SONET/SDH frame payload and transmitted.

I can only provide to you a costing exercise for T3 �wave as applicable to
the Australian marketplace not knowing tarriffs and �wave prices in North 
America. In OZ, PTT T3/E3 services are limited in distance and extremely
expensive. For a maximum distance available of 39Km's and for a MINIMUM
rental period of 3 years the cost is in excess A$440K/year not including
original installation, clearly very expensive. For a service such as yours
at around 17Km's cost per year is greater than A$300K plus install. 
 
Now when we configure a T3 �wave network, the cost to the customer is around 
A$170K and includes installation, 12 months onsite DECservice warranty, 
radio licensing fees. The system price also includes 2 power supplies 
(usually 48VDC) and is field upgradeable to redundant T3 connection, ATI call it
Hot Standby protected, Hot swap and Live insertion are supported) plus inbuilt 
scrambling as I mentioned before. The only thing that is not costed is building
top rental, if applicable, ie if your customer owns the building no rent, if 
they don't well some negotiation will take place between the customer and the 
building owner. ATI, at least here in Australia will help facilitate this 
process on our behalf. I ramble.......
Anyway you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that microwave
option is cost effective (at least down here anyway), it really comes down
to how your customer wants to budget the expense either via capital and
have a private network or lease a service, carry annual expenses and be at
the mercy of the local carrier. 

Locally, field service are servicing everything but the Antenna and RF head 
as the radio electronics is modular and are easily serviced by them.

In the near future ATI will be adding SNMP capability (this was at our 
request) so we will be able to monitor/manage the microwave network out of a 
network management platform and also ATI will have OC-3 SONET interface
soon so all we need to do is to change the PMD on the AGL card and we have
a 155Mb/s connection (I have no idea of the cost of this baby but its 
sounds good to me, as we won't have public ATM service for some time yet).

Hopefully this has provided you with the info you need. 

Cheers
	Shelly

PS. BRS engineering are looking at how they can use a T1 link to act as the 
quorum breaker (NOT a cluster interconnect) you will however need to
contact BRS product manager Dave VSSPC::ARRIGO for more on this. 

Attachment 1. Sales update article



16-MAY-94   Positioning the Business Recovery Server,          Vol. 25, 23
             Our Disaster Tolerant Cluster                      





  Contact
 U.S.:    David Arrigo, DTN 293-5755, (508) 264-5755, BXB
          Nick Carr, DTN 381-2806, (603) 881-2806, ZKO
 EUROPE:  Shaun McCaughan, DTN 842-3515, BSO
          Phil Moore, DTN 847-5502, HHL
 AP:      Rolf Jester, DTN 730-5168, SNO
          Paul Marshall, DTN 739-3271, MEO

  Highlights
 o  Differentiate between the Business Recovery Server and an FDDI Cluster
    supported on OpenVMS systems

 o  Position the Business Recovery Server as a Disaster Tolerant/Recovery
    Solution to win large scale solutions opportunities

Product Description

The Business Recovery Server (BRS) is a systems-engineered software and 
services solution that integrates Cluster, Volume Shadowing, FDDI, and 
Digital's System and Network Management tools into redundant system and 
operations management platforms. 

The Business Recovery Server provides the Operations Management Station 
(OMS) integration software with Digital's Consulting Services,  ensuring
configuration integrity, and efficient and proper system management 
capability for the customers disaster tolerant platform. 

In highly competitive environments, customers depend heavily on their 
computing resources and must keep any downtime resulting from a fault, 
failure, or disaster to an absolute minimum.  At the same time, customers 
need to have an information solutions partner who can implement and 
support a cost-effective, disaster-tolerant solution for their operation,
thus  allowing them to focus on their line(s) of business. 

COMPARISON OF THE BUSINESS RECOVERY SERVER AND AN FDDI CLUSTER ON OpenVMS

Today, the Business Recovery Server is implemented using existing 
VAXcluster technology distributed between two data centers (sites) via 
FDDI media, with support for AXP systems and T3 planned soon.  Thus, the 
Business Recovery  Server, like an OpenVMS FDDI Cluster, uses the highly 
integrated VAXcluster  software as described in the VAXcluster Software for
OpenVMS VAX Software  Product Description (SPD 29.78.xx). 

However, the Business Recovery Server specifically allows for the 
successful  implementation and management of disaster tolerant 
configurations in order  to deliver predictable recovery from a data center
or site fault, failure,  or disaster.  An FDDI Cluster is not specifically
designed to provide a  disaster tolerant platform, but is an integrated 
product used within the  Business Recovery Server solution. 

Platform for Disaster Tolerant Computing

 o  Business Recovery Server -- A systems engineered, tested, and supported
    solution providing the platform for building a disaster tolerant 
    system. The system testing and qualification process ensures that the
    configuration(s) recommended and supported provide a platform for 
    optimal performance, component integrity, and system dependability for the
    purpose of configuring a disaster tolerant solution.

 o  FDDI Cluster -- The VAXcluster software supports FDDI as an 
    interconnect for the implementation of a Local-Area or an Extended
    Local-Area VAXcluster.  The systems engineering testing is for general
    VAXcluster support to provide a highly integrated distributed OpenVMS
    computing environment. 

o   Difference -- The Business Recovery Server systems engineering efforts
    address disaster-tolerant, specific configuration and recovery issues
    using the FDDI Cluster as a building block to the disaster tolerant
    platform while also providing a solution in which the cost to implement
    can also be measured.

    The Business Recovery Server solution includes the Operation Management
    Station (OMS) software which integrates the system and network 
    management tools installed on the redundant management platforms, 
    enabling the effective management of the entire configuration from either 
    site.

    Also, the Business Recovery Server includes the Operations Management
    Station Software Installation Service provided by Digital Consulting
    Services. The service includes a configuration review, OMS software
    customization and installation, and a review and demonstration of the
    recovery procedures on the BRS configuration to validate the solution

 Operations Management Station Software

 o  Business Recovery Server -- This is the designed, tested, and supported
    disaster management integration software used in conjunction with
    Digital's systems and network management tools.  It allows for the
    management of the entire configuration from either site or data center.
    It also allows for the change of control -- on demand -- to either 
    site.
    If one site becomes inoperable, the Software automatically transfers
    system management control to the operable site in seconds.  The 
    Software includes scripted site-continuation commands to provide for rapid
    recovery at the surviving site eliminating the possibility of errors.

    Also included in the Operations Management Station Software at
    installation is the automatic generation of command files for the
    prerequisite system and network management tools needed to monitor the
    disaster tolerant platform.

 o  FDDI Cluster -- An FDDI Cluster does not include any designed, tested,
    and supported integration software for use with Digital's system and
    network management tools for the disaster management.  Each system and
    network management tool must be individually installed, configured, and
    tested in an FDDI Cluster environment, and repeated as new versions are
    released.

o   Difference -- The Business Recovery Server integration software used in
    conjunction with Digital's system and network management tools, 
    provides the operations management tools specific to the needs of disaster
    tolerant system management.  The rapid recovery process results in less
    costly downtime in the event of a fault, failure, or disaster while
    eliminating the possibility of inducing system failure during recovery.

 Operations Management Station Software Installation Service

 o  Business Recovery Server -- The Operations Management Station 
    integration software included with the Business Recovery Server license is 
    delivered by Digital Consulting Services. These Professionals provide a 
    review of the current and planned disaster-tolerant configuration, 
    reviewing it with Digital's Engineering organization if necessary, while 
    providing the software customization, installation, system and operator 
    training, and OMS hands-on orientation that ensures rapid recovery.

 o  FDDI Cluster -- An FDDI Cluster provides no associated services for
    configuration review or hands-on training since an FDDI Cluster is not
    designed, tested, and supported as a solution providing disaster 
    tolerant platform computing.

 o  Difference -- The consulting and installation service provided with the
    Business Recovery Server license provides the most efficient and cost
    effective implementation of a disaster tolerant computing platform to a
    customer.  By assisting the customer with the establishment of a
    consistent disaster management process at each site, reduces the impact
    of changes in customer personnel.

    The Digital designed, tested, and supported disaster-tolerant platform
    and integrated operations management tool, standardizes the systems and
    components needed for a customers business critical computing
    environment.  This affords a customer the ability to focus on the goals
    of their business while partnering with Digital to provide the 
    computing solution needed, and assist their business in achieving it's 
    objectives.

The Business Recovery Server as a Disaster Tolerant/Recovery Solution

The Business Recovery Server solution enables customers to gain rapid 
control of their business-critical computing environment during a disaster,
often in a recovery period of seconds to minutes.  The platform is built
on  proven OpenVMS technology, providing for a cost-effective solution that
requires no application modification.  This allows customers to expand and
change their business while protecting their investment in hardware, 
software, and user training. 

The Business Recovery Server can be the ideal alternative for mainframe 
sites that need alternative solutions to their specific need for disaster 
tolerance. 

For more information on the Business Recovery Server, please refer to Vol.
25 No. 7 issue of Sales Update, dated October 4, 1993.

Benefits

 o  Supported Solution -- An FDDI Cluster specifically tested and 
    configured for disaster tolerance as a building block for a supported 
    solution.

    The OMS integration software provides framework for the system and
    network management platform necessary for rapid recovery of business
    critical computing resources at surviving site.

 o  Implementation Cost -- The cost to implement, support and maintain, and
    update can be better determined with each updated release.

    Digital's support for the implementation also reduces the impact to
    changes in personnel allowing the customer to invest and focus on their
    business goals and objectives.

 o  Operations Management Software (OMS) -- Designed, tested, and supported
    disaster management integration software allowing for the operations 
    management of the entire configuration from either site ensuring that a
    consistent disaster management process is present in each site.

    Automatic transfer of system management control to the surviving site 
    in seconds providing for rapid control of console management functions
    resulting in less costly downtime.

    Scripted site continuation commands providing for rapid recovery at the
    surviving site eliminating the possibility of inducing system failure
    while recovering from a disaster event.

 o  Consulting Services -- Review of the current and planned configuration to
    ensure appropriate versions of operating system software, supported 
    systems, disks, and other peripherals critical to the platform, and the
    prerequisite software needed in conjunction with the OMS integration
    software.

    Training syllabus customized to meet the needs of the customer for the
    use of the OMS integration software in conjunction with Digital's 
    system and network management tools.

    Review of the system recovery procedures that pertain to the
    configuration emphasizing the use of the OMS integration software
    operations management platform.
    Validation of the Business Recovery Server configuration from a fault,
    failure, or disaster by performing agreed to failure inducements and
    providing for an approximate length of time for platform recovery.

Pricing/Ordering Information

 Model No.        Description                           U.S. List

 QB-MC8AA-BA      The Business Recovery Server V1.1       $60,000
                  Package including the customized
                  installation of the OMS software.

 QA-MC7AA-HW      The Business Recovery Server V1.1         1,115
                  Software Media and Documentation Kit.

 QL-MC7A9-RA      The Business Recovery Server V1.1         7,884
                  Update License.  This can only be
                  applied if the customer has purchased
                  and installed V1.0.  Installation
                  charge to be quoted by the respective
                  Service Delivery Organization (see Service
                  Contacts listed below).
Service Contacts

The Business Recovery Server is delivered by the following services
organizations:

 Europe:            The Bristol Consultancy Services Organization.
 Contacts:          Shaun McCaughan, DTN 842-3515, BSO
                    Phil Moore, DTN 847-5502, HHL

 North America:     The Eastern/Western Information Technology Consulting
                    Centers in the US.
 Contacts:          Fred Gipson, DTN 339-5315, DCO
                    Denise Schorsch, DTN 474-5360, ACI

 South Pacific/     Digital Consulting Services in the South Pacific Region
 Pacific Rim:       Office.
 Contacts:          Rolf Jester, DTN 730-5168, SNO
                    Paul Marshall, DTN 739-3271, MEO

To ensure a quality delivery of the Business Recovery Server, the needs of
the customer should be well understood and the solution properly 
configured.
It is highly recommended that these trained professionals be involved in 
the sales process before any final sales quotation be presented to the 
customer.

Resources

 External

 o  SPD 35.05.xx

 o  AA-PKR9B-TE, Business Recovery Server Configuration Guidelines 35.05,
    Business Recovery Server SPD and System Support Addendum