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Conference 7.286::fddi

Title:FDDI - The Next Generation
Moderator:NETCAD::STEFANI
Created:Thu Apr 27 1989
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2259
Total number of notes:8590

747.0. "FDDI mgnt using SNMP clarification needs" by CHILKA::JAGGI () Thu Oct 15 1992 15:42

Few questions about someone who is trying to demonstrate that we may (or 
may not)manage our FDDI equipments using SNMP instead of our ELM AM. I have 
to demonstrate the manageability of FDDI using SNMP through CISCO routers. 
The customer is CERN.

The questions are the follows : 

- What are the differences in terms of attributs we may get/set compare 
  with our FDDI, BRIDGE, CONCENTRATOR AMs if any ?

- If differences, what are the consequences of these differences on the 
  manageability of these equipements. It's important to know explicitly
  what are going to be mainly impact if we choose SNMP to manage Concentrator
  or Bridge instead our private protocols.

  . My experience is : I have augmented the SNMP AM with :
	BRIDGE_STD_MIBDEF.TXT
	DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF.TXT
	FDDI_STD_MIBDEF.TXT

  . Now looking into our private extension (DEC-EMA-fddi...) for
    a wiring concentrator or LanBridge600 seems very different of what we may 
    see using our own private management protocol on a FDDI station.
  . My understanding of the SNMP FDDI sub-entity was for FDDI MIB RFC 1285.
    When I try to get infos, all I receive is 'attribut is not gettable'
  . Therefore what are the differences between our FDDI_STD_MIBDEF
    and the FDDI definition we find in DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF.TXT ?
  . When I query a LanBridge600 using BRIDGE MIB RFC 1286 none of the 
    attribut is gettable. Don't we support these RFCs into our equipments ?
    What am I doing wrong ?

- Would it be possible to comment for each equipement what extension file 
  we have to use ? What is possible to manage compare with our ELM AMs

- For example what are the differences between :
	BRIDGE_STD_MIBDEF.TXT and DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF.TXT
	FDDI_STD_MIBDEF.TXT and DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF.TXT
  in terms of functions/manageability

- Why are they so many differences between our FDDI extension and the one
  specify by the RFC 1285. It seems that there are much more definitions in 
  the IEFT definitions than in our private efddi extension.

- Can we really manage our FDDI equipment using SNMP protocol ?

- I would like also to share a comment that I have some times heard : why 
  do we have a different user interface to manage the same entity depending 
  the management protocol we choose ? Is it something unreasonnable to 
  expect a common user interface whatever management protocol we use.
  (compare ELM and SNMP).

Thanks to clarify my poor understanding of FDDI manageability using 
SNMP AM.

Regards
Michel


PS : Posted into MCC and and FDDI notes file.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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747.1LEVERS::ANILAnil RijsinghaniFri Oct 16 1992 11:45125
    First of all, SNMP is an open, mult-vendor network management
    framework.  ELMS is based on the DEC proprietary RBMS, and is
    being phased out.  With SNMP, customers can use equipment
    already available to them with our products.
    
    I think you would benefit from reading the SNMP Configuration Guide,
    to get a pointer to the .ps file, try "dir/title=config".
    
> The questions are the follows : 
> 
> - What are the differences in terms of attributs we may get/set compare 
>   with our FDDI, BRIDGE, CONCENTRATOR AMs if any ?
    
    Everything available from ELMS is available from SNMP.
    
> 
> - If differences, what are the consequences of these differences on the 
>   manageability of these equipements. It's important to know explicitly
>   what are going to be mainly impact if we choose SNMP to manage Concentrator
>   or Bridge instead our private protocols.
> 
>   . My experience is : I have augmented the SNMP AM with :
> 	BRIDGE_STD_MIBDEF.TXT
> 	DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF.TXT
> 	FDDI_STD_MIBDEF.TXT
> 
>   . Now looking into our private extension (DEC-EMA-fddi...) for
>     a wiring concentrator or LanBridge600 seems very different of what we may 
>     see using our own private management protocol on a FDDI station.
    
    There are a large number of SNMP nms's out there, all compliant
    to the protocol, but each with a different user interface.  They
    have their own mechanism for diplaying a MIB, which is a
    collection of variables pertaining to a given functionality.  In
    order to fully represent management variables for an FDDI bridge,
    we had to implement the Bridge MIB, the FDDI MIB, MIB-II, and
    the DEC ELAN-MIB.  Each management station will display these
    MIBs in their own manner, there's no standard specifying the
    user interface.  We controlled the protocol as well as user
    interface for ELMS.  Hence you will not see a correspondence
    between the screens of ELMS and SNMP.
    
>   . My understanding of the SNMP FDDI sub-entity was for FDDI MIB RFC 1285.
>     When I try to get infos, all I receive is 'attribut is not gettable'
    
    Ths is because we have not implemented RFC-1285.  We have implemented
    an earlier draft version of the MIB, which was all that was available
    at the time of development.  I believe this is the file
    FDDI_STD_MIBDEF.TXT that you referto above.  In any case, you can
    get this particular MIB version from a location specified in
    the config guide.
    
    Our next release for bothe Bridge and Concentrator will support
    the standard RFC MIBs.
    
>   . Therefore what are the differences between our FDDI_STD_MIBDEF
>     and the FDDI definition we find in DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF.TXT ?
    
    Don't confuse these two.  FDDI_STD_MIBDEF is what has been defined
    by the IETF standards body, applicable across all vendors FDDI
    implementation.  Over and above this, our products have value-added
    features which it is is necessary to be able to manage.  This is
    what DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF does - it is the collection of variables
    ("objects" in SNMP terminology) applicable to Digital products
    over and above the standard MIBs.
    
>   . When I query a LanBridge600 using BRIDGE MIB RFC 1286 none of the 
>     attribut is gettable. Don't we support these RFCs into our equipments ?
>     What am I doing wrong ?
    
    Again, we had implemented an earlier draft of the IETF Bridge MIB.
    Our next release will implement the RFC version.
    
> 
> - Would it be possible to comment for each equipement what extension file 
>   we have to use ? What is possible to manage compare with our ELM AMs
    
    You can fully manage the bridge with MIB-II, Bridge MIB, DEC-ELAN MIB,
    and FDDI MIB (the last is applicable only to bridges with an FDDI port)
    
> 
> - For example what are the differences between :
> 	BRIDGE_STD_MIBDEF.TXT and DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF.TXT
> 	FDDI_STD_MIBDEF.TXT and DEC_ELAN20_MIBDEF.TXT
>   in terms of functions/manageability
    
    See above.  DEC-ELAN instruments the additionals features in Digital
    products.  The two are mutually exclusive.
    
> 
> - Why are they so many differences between our FDDI extension and the one
>   specify by the RFC 1285. It seems that there are much more definitions in 
>   the IEFT definitions than in our private efddi extension.
    
    See above!
    
> 
> - Can we really manage our FDDI equipment using SNMP protocol ?
    
    YES!
    
> 
> - I would like also to share a comment that I have some times heard : why 
>   do we have a different user interface to manage the same entity depending 
>   the management protocol we choose ? Is it something unreasonnable to 
>   expect a common user interface whatever management protocol we use.
>   (compare ELM and SNMP).
    
    I've explained why you can't have a common user interface between
    two different protocols.  Unless, of course, you write a special
    application to mimic ELMS with SNMP.  But believe me there is
    nothing special about the way ELMS displays variables.  Besides
    we are trying to get away from ELMS.
    
    You will find more and more that vendors all over the industry
    will write applications based on MIBs which will do stuff like
    draw pictures, graphs, bar charts, and other user-friendly
    graphics based on standard MIBs.  This is possible because of
    the widespread acceptance of SNMP, and standard MIBs.  So if we
    write applications, you can expect them to be a lot better than
    drab screen dumps of data!
    
    Hope this helped.
    
    Anil
747.2SCHOOL::CARRWed Dec 02 1992 16:5411
re .1
>> Our next release for both the bridge and concentrator will support
>> the standard RFC MIBs

What releases of firmware will support the RFC versions of the MIBs ?

Once you go to that firmware rev do you have to use the RFC MIB
or is it backwards compatible to the experimental MIB ?

Thanks,
	Denise
747.3LEVERS::ANILAnil RijsinghaniSat Dec 12 1992 10:4314
> What releases of firmware will support the RFC versions of the MIBs ?
    
    As far as I know, 3.0, which is currently in fieldtest.

> Once you go to that firmware rev do you have to use the RFC MIB
> or is it backwards compatible to the experimental MIB ?
    
    It's compatible in the sense that most of the objects are the same.
    However since the MIB has moved out from under the 'experimental'
    branch of the MIB tree to under the standard MIB-II, the OID's
    have changed; thus an NMS would need to load the new version before
    querying it.
    
    Anil
747.43.0 does not support 1285 or 1286VCSESU::WADEBill Wade, VAXc Systems & Support EngWed Mar 03 1993 11:2034
                                                                       
    What sw/firmware version for the DECbridge supports rfc1285 and rfc1286?
    It looks like V3.0 is still using the experimental mib.
                                                                    
    This is what the DECmcc ELM AM shows

!                          Hardware Type = DEFEB DECbridge 500
!                       Software Version = "V3.0"
!                            ROM Version = V1.6.0
    
	
    And the SNMP AM returns -


show snmp 16.20.32.65 DOT1DBRIDGE DOT1DBASE all attrib
!
!
!SNMP 16.20.32.65 dot1dBridge dot1dBase 
!AT  3-MAR-1993 11:03:03 All Attributes
!
!                 dot1dBaseBridgeAddress = -- Attribute Not Gettable
!                      dot1dBaseNumPorts = -- Attribute Not Gettable
!                          dot1dBaseType = -- Attribute Not Gettable


    I get the same "Attribute Not Gettable" for objects under the fddi
    group (rfc1285) but objects in the DEC Vendor MIB are gettable.
	
    My next step is to load the exp mib and see what I can see.

Thanks,
Bill