Conference 7.286::dcu

While Digital may not let DCU solicit employees which on Digital premises or
using Digital's resources, I can't see how Digital could object if DCU bypassed
Digital and did so directly (via print ads or direct mailings or other means).

    re: .1
    
    How does DCU get a mailing list of non-DCU member Digital employees?
    Print ads might be an idea, but the ads should probably target the
    entire eligble field of membership.
    
    re: .0
    
    I find it bizzare that Digital won't let DCU use Digital resources to
    solicit for members.  Did they allow it in the past?  Are there other
    company-sponsored credit unions with this prohibition?
    
    Bob

Re: .2

My understanding is that Digital currently considers us "just another benefit",
and if they "sold the mailing list" to DCU, then they would have to do the same
for other businesses which might want Digital employees' business.

Elaine

Pardon me, but this appears a bit silly.

First we had Simms using company resources a few years ago, trying to throw
the DCU BoD election via a direct mailing to DIGITAL employees who were
DCU members, influencing them to vote one-sided.

And now we've got DIGITAL management still claiming that the DEFCU is a
benefit (Free clue to DIGITAL management - it AIN'T a benefit that you
provide) but refusing to provide it any support which would allow it
to prosper.

What a bunch o' maroons.

    
    re -1
    Digital provided floor space and all of the original Hardware and still
    provides internal prices on Service and possibly on the HW.  there
    may be other things as well

    Well FWIW I took about $6K outta DCU during the Late Unpleasantness,
    and am looking for a way to get it back in...  Perhaps my next car
    loan.  Seems to me a perfectly fine thing for DCU to solicit amongst
    its most likely prospects.  Best to have a good business case, value
    proposition etc. when you do, but it seems OK to try.
    

    
    Hmm, let's imagine:
    
      1) DEC senior mgmt condemns use of DEC resources to solicit DEC
         employees regarding a DCU organization matter; DEC employees get
         fired.
    
      2) DEC senior management approves use of DEC resources to solicit
         employees regarding a DCU business matter.
    
      3) Aggrieved ex-employees see double standard, sue shorts off DEC.
    
    Regardless of other past events, the above purely hypothetical
    situation convinces me that DEC will never let DCU solicit DEC employees
    for new DCU member/owners -- or, at least, not until the corporate
    memory on related matters is successfully purged.
    
    On the other hand, DEC has a long history of letting employees share
    information with other employees, in a non-solicitous manner, in
    non-work areas during non-work hours. Why, even during the height of
    the DCU wars, interested employees were allowed to staff tables during
    lunch in various cafeterias to make available information related to
    DCU elections. Perhaps DEC would, in a similar fashion, allow employees
    who still see DCU as a valuable employee benefit to share that
    information with other employees.
    

But, Bill, you failed to include event zero -
    
      0) DEC senior management approves use of DEC resources to solicit
         employees regarding a DCU business matter.

RE: .7

>> Why, even during the height of the DCU wars, interested employees were 
>> allowed to staff tables during lunch in various cafeterias to make available
>> information related to DCU elections.

Interested employees are no longer allowed to do such things.  And, at recent
membership drives which Digital allowed DCU to do in Digital cafeterias, DCU was
not allowed to open accounts (i.e. collect $5) in the cafs, but had to refer
folks to the branches.

Elaine

.9> Interested employees are no longer allowed to do such things.  And, at recent
.9> membership drives which Digital allowed DCU to do in Digital cafeterias, DCU was
.9> not allowed to open accounts (i.e. collect $5) in the cafs, but had to refer
.9> folks to the branches.
    
    Now I'm confused:
    
    o  Did an employee ask recently to provide information in a caf, and was
       that request denied?
    
    o  Is the recent DCU membership drive in DEC cafeterias no longer allowed?
       (I have no problem with referring the actual business to the
       branches, and limiting the cafeteria activity to information only.
       It's hard to believe that a DCU information event would not be
       allowed in cafs, since ZKO just hosted a wellness center event of
       this nature, and an HMO/Health fair is scheduled for 15-Nov.)
    

Re: .10

In .7, you referred to the fact that interested employees were able to make
information available relative to DCU elections.  That was the 1994 election. 
For the 1995 election, we were forbidden from doing so at Digital sites, and 
also at the Quantum site.  Given the experiences of the 1994 candidates, we
decided not to challenge the rulings.

DCU was allowed to hold the membership drive in DEC cafeterias.  Presumably DCU
could get permission to do the same thing again at some point in the future. 
However, because branches tend to be far removed from cafeterias (a trend which
is becoming more pronounced as branches are relocated near building lobbies),
DCU feels it is not as effective if it cannot actually accept money.  DCU may
move future "drives" to be only within the branches, or outside advertising.

Elaine

>For the 1995 election, we were forbidden from doing so at Digital sites, and 
>also at the Quantum site.

I hadn't been aware of this restriction. Thankyou for making it known, Elaine.

Now you know why it was such a quiet campaign. I had grand plans, but they were
shot down.  Left me with 1000 sheets of paper-airplane making material that I
couldn't hand out.

I would like to figure out some way to allow members to get to know candidates
better in the future.  But that's another topic.

Elaine

I just reviewed #910 as a sanity check and noticed that no mention of the
restriction had been made there, which leads me to believe that the restriction
wasn't DCU or BoD/SC imposed, leaving me to conclude that it was a restriction
imposed by DIGITAL.

Could I ask how the candidates were made aware of the restriction and from
whose office it originated?

    I think I'd get Carlos out to the DEC facilities.  Unlike Chuck who had
    a repulsive nature and went out on meet the Prez tours during the Dark
    days,  Carlos has a kind of magatizism, and DCU is enjoying better
    days.  I'd make sure Carlos didn't go out in 3 piece monkey suits
    though.
    
    another great way is to introduce home banking when it is ready.  Offer
    a series of how tos in the dec facilities.  In that line, DCU could
    offer a series of banking 'how to'.
    
    ed
    

re: .15

Stay tuned.  Carlo has some ideas about getting out to meet the members.  He's
all for it!  I think you'll approve.

Elaine

P.S. By the way, it's Carlo, no -s

re: .9, .10, Doing business in the cafeteria, rather than simply providing info

And, of course, to make matters even more confusing, there are situations
such as today, where New England Fire Equipment Co., Inc, is in the ZKO
cafeteria with cases of merchandise, tables of literature, and a sign that
says "We accept Visa and MasterCharge".

Apparently their business is somehow different relative to DIGITAL employees
than is that of the DIGITAL Employees Federal Credit Union.

    re: .17 and others
    
    I wonder if this is payback from someone somewhere for us ruining their
    private 'bank'?
    
    Bob

I don't know, Bob. That's probably a good question for the ETHICS conference.

Oh .... I forgot ....

  Does Digital policy prohibit DCU (or DCU board members and candidates) from
sending email from their own (not Digital-owned) computers over the Internet
to Digital employees if said email is considered "solicitation"? In other words,
is the RECEIPT (not sending) of such mail on Digital-owned systems considered
"use of Digital resources"?
  The last election was indeed a quiet one, and not just because the contro-
versy is mostly over.

    My guess is that mgmt wouldn't be amused.  My experience is that policy
    is written and interpreted flexiby enough so that they could probably
    find a way to call the above a violation if they want to.  Remember,
    we could never, despite all of our efforts, even get an explanation of
    what does or does not constitute solicitation -- except for once when
    it was defined so broadly that even this note could probably be called
    solicitation.  That definition was withdrawn, and nothing was put in
    its place.  So I'm not at all surprized that Elaine chose not to say
    anything during the campaign.  
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry (speaking as a private DCU member this time)

    Perhaps one could get 'round the putative objections of DIGITAL
    management to the issue of putative EMail into DIGITAL from outside the
    firewall by adding some sort of groupware application to the DCU
    Website?  Perhaps this site might be a place where candidates might
    speak their pieces, where members from both within & outside the
    firewall might ask questions of the candidates?  It might itself be
    secure, requiring validated DCU membership to enter a special Customer
    Comment area...
    
    It could happen...
    
    ?
    

    And Dan, you might have a few tricks up your sleeve, right?
    
    Bob

RE: Note 956.22 by DRDAN::KALIKOW

>    Perhaps one could get 'round the putative objections of DIGITAL
>    management to the issue of putative EMail into DIGITAL from outside the
>    firewall by adding some sort of groupware application to the DCU
>    Website?  Perhaps this site might be a place where candidates might
>    speak their pieces, where members from both within & outside the
>    firewall might ask questions of the candidates?  It might itself be
>    secure, requiring validated DCU membership to enter a special Customer
>    Comment area...
    
>    It could happen...

Or one could use the Internet usegroup:

	alt.digital.edu

Anyone can speak their piece in their and Digital has no control over it,
as long as one does not use DEC equipment or use DEC's name in such
communications.

	- mark

.edu?  domains on the brain?

alt.digital.dcu is the right note.

    Qui, Moi?? :-)
    
    Sorry for letting my hidden agenda show...  (But I kinda think that
    it's not so hidden anymore anyhow...)
    
    :-)
    

    Imho, newsgroups aren't nearly as user-friendly as the Web.  Even
    newsreaders embedded in web browsers don't cut it.  And imho it is
    difficult (if not impossible) to create the kind of scenario I sketched
    in .22 on the NNTP substrate.  That's not to say that a newsgroup has
    no value as a discussion substrate, just not as much.  Again imho.
    
    But I fear I'm ratholing not only this topic but the purpose of this
    notesfile, so I'll consider my piece as having been spoken here.