Conference 7.286::dcu

re: .0

>When I was at the ZKO DCU branch on Friday I saw a sign announcing that 
>the first four "network" ATM transactions per month would be free!  This is
>wonderful news - I'm astonished nobody has mentioned it here so far (or did
>I miss it?)

It was mentioned in the thread about the Washington DC area DCU branch
closing.

-Hal

Hmm - I do see a reference to it buried in a reply, but never saw an
actual announcement.  I think the reference was in reply to an e-mail
conversation.

In any event, this might be enough for me to switch to DCU for my
checking account.

					Steve

It's not nearly enough for me unless the Fed were to change some of its dumb
rules on various electronic transactions.

Bob

I'm not sure I understand.  I don't use an ATM card except for withdrawing
cash at ATM machines - maybe 2 or 3 times ever have I used one for making
a purchase.  I do sometimes find I want cash and it's a pain to have to find
the bank's own machines to get no-fee withdrawals.  My current bank (NFS)
recently raised its network-ATM fee to $1, but at least their own ATMs are
scattered across town so I don't have to drive to ZKO (or Cotton Road) to
find an ATM.

Given that NFS is paying me a whopping 1.7% interest on my checking, and who
knows what will happen now that BayBanks has bought them out, I am seriously
considering moving my main checking to DCU.  The one remaining annoyance is
check truncation, but I may be willing to put up with that - especially if
services like "statements in Quicken format" come into place.

					Steve

Steve,

Assuming your note was directed at me...

We get paid weekly.  I would use up all my free ATM transactions for each month
just to get my budgeted cash for the week.  In those 5-week months, I'd be over
the limit.  Remember the Fed limits those transactions you can do by phone, so
I wouldn't be able to move money from my savings to checking, etc. free, as I
do now.

I'm also beginning to see financial institutions in Dallas starting to charge
foreign users an 'ATM fee' in addition to the 'Network fee'.  So, even a 'free'
DCU transaction (if defined as no network fee) could cost me $.50.

Bob

Re: .5

That's true.  There is an ATM at the Kittery Outlet Malls in Maine that charges
everyone $1, in addition to the fee your own bank may or may not charge you for
the transaction.  My husband almost fell for it, thinking his credit union does
not charge for foreign ATM transactions.  But he read the disclaimer on the
machine again, and learned this.

I guess that's a caveat for all foreign ATM users, whether DCU charges for
transactions or not.

Elaine

Ok, I see.  My situation is different - I didn't mean to imply that everyone
would want to do the same.

I have a DCU ATM here at ZKO so I can get cash while I'm here.  It's just
the times I'm not at work and want cash that a free ATM transaction would
be nice.

It was the 4 free transactions that swung things in DCU's favor from my
current bank.  The idea of separate fees charged for the use of the ATM
haven't made it here - yet.  I have seen this elsewhere.  Note that even
if your bank gives you free transactions, that merely means they are absorbing
the .50 or .75 the network charges them for the transaction - the owner of the
ATM gets .25 or so.

				Steve

    re: .7
    
>Note that even
>if your bank gives you free transactions, that merely means they are absorbing
>the .50 or .75 the network charges them for the transaction - the owner of the
>ATM gets .25 or so.                                       
    
    Note that when the bank gives you free admission to the branch, that
    merely means they are absorbing the rent charged by the landlord, the
    utility charges charged by the utilities, etc.

    
    An insert in my most recent monthly statement claims that I can now 
    make up to four ATM withdrawals per month without the $1 fee for using
    a foreign ATM.  I made such a withdrawal on May 28, and I was charged
    the $1 fee.  Does this new program have an effective date?
    
    Lou
    

    I think it was effective June 1.
    
    

re .5:

>the limit.  Remember the Fed limits those transactions you can do by phone, so
>I wouldn't be able to move money from my savings to checking, etc. free, as I
>do now.

Could someone expand on this?  What does the Fed prevent you/us from doing?

Burns

re: .11

I've forgotten the regulation letter/number, but for example, I am only allowed
to do 3 three phone (my CU doesn't call it EASYTOUCH, but it's the equivalent)
transfers between my checking and savings accounts each month.  However, I can
do as many as I want by using one of the CU's ATMs.  Since DCU's nearest ATM
is over 1,000 miles from me, that awkward option is obviously unavailable to me.

Bob

What happens if you do more than 3 transfers between checking and savings
accounts each month?

- Vikas

I think they charge a hefty fee.

re: .13

The software won't let you.

When I get my statement, phone transfers show up as:

Transfer 1

ATM tranfers show up as:

Transfer NC

Bob

    For more information on the restrictions on transfers between accounts,
    take a look at notes 101.34, 101.42, 696.18. They talk about Regulation
    D and how DCU implements it.

re: .16

Thanks for the pointers.

Bob

I use my bank debit card (ATM card) six to eight times a month to get cash,
usually at foreign (to my bank) ATMs but often as cash back in a supermarket
purchase.

After relocating from NH to NJ I had to abandon use of the DCU ATMs and find a
bank here with ATM transactions that never incur a network charge. The
announcement of four free DCU transactions per month was nice, but four wasn't
enough for me. (I have to keep a certain minimum in my account here to qualify
for the free debit card usage, but I would keep that much anyway.)

In last Friday's local paper there was an article about how Cirrus and Plus
networks may start permitting the banks who own ATMs to charge per transaction.
This is in contrast to the bank who owns the ATM card levying a network charge
as many do now. The practice of the ATM owner charging has been mentioned in
this thread so some banks already do this.

I've started to think about strategies to continue to have free access to cash
when I want it. Paying transactions fees for this is unacceptable to me.

I wonder if these network charges would apply to supermarket debit/cash back
transactions. 

Also, I would hope the DCU might become more competitive with financial
institutions like mine that allow free, unlimited debit transactions when the
account maintains a certain minimum. Say 10 transactions/month when you
maintain a $5 or $10 thousand balance seems reasonable, no?

-- Steve

Why don't you just get more per transaction?  Or consider this workaround - 
use your card at a grocery store which accepts it as a debit card and ask
for "cash back".  One store I go to allows up to $200 "cash back" and DCU
does not charge anything for debit transactions (for now, even though it does
cost them something).

DCU is quite competitive when you look at the interest rate being paid on
deposits.

				Steve

    By using "Charge" in  a Supermarket, it is a DEBIT to your checking
    account (usually a day or two later) for which you incur no charge.  It
    you use "ATM" at the supermarket, it counts as one of the 4.  So, if
    you are mostly geting cash back at the supermarket, use "CHARGE" on
    your DCU Cash/VISA card and have no ATM charges.
    
    On top of this, I believe there is some benefit from VISA to DCU if you
    use this path.
    
    DOes anyone know if you can go to a foreigh bank and get cash from your
    credit card (VISA Cash Card) instead of treating it as EFT and therefor
    also incur no charge?
    
    Bill
    

re: 18

The interest rate paid by the DCU is higher than many
banks.  Calculate the difference in interest you would receive
if you deposited the 5-10K at the DCU. The difference in
interest paid to you may more than make up for the ATM charges.

Gim

re: .18

>In last Friday's local paper there was an article about how Cirrus and Plus
>networks may start permitting the banks who own ATMs to charge per transaction.
>This is in contrast to the bank who owns the ATM card levying a network charge
>as many do now. The practice of the ATM owner charging has been mentioned in
>this thread so some banks already do this.

This practice seems to be regulated on a state-by-state basis.  I took a trip
to Louisana this summer (I live in Maryland), and quite a few of the ATMs
there charged a fee for using them.  There seemed to be some legal requirement
that they warn you first, though, as I'd be asked to press a button indicating
that I understood that I was going to be charged.

-Hal

Thanks for the suggestions. I confess I have not compared the DCU's and my
local bank's interest rates. Although I feel uneasy not having any local bank, I
could reduce my local balance.

I don't take more cash at a single time because I'm a bit cautious of carrying
"too much" cash. 

I've not been using my DCU ATM card for the last two years and I did not realize
that the supermarket/cash back transaction would not be counted as one of the
four free transactions and that these can be done without limit and without
network charges. That, combined with the four free transactions a month really
should do.

What is the exact definition of one of these four transactions? Is it four
cash withdrawals and other transactions like inquiries and account transfers
are always free, or is it four of any transaction, does anyone know?

-- Steve

re: .20 

<<    DOes anyone know if you can go to a foreigh bank and get cash from your
<<    credit card (VISA Cash Card) instead of treating it as EFT and therefor
<<    also incur no charge?
    
I have an DCU ATM card I have used recently in Israel and the Czech Republic to
withdraw cash.  As far as I can tell, I was not charged for the 
transactions.  My son uses the VISA debit card to get cash in the UK; I 
don't think he is charged, but I'll check with him.


- Scott

> What is the exact definition of one of these four transactions? Is it
> four cash withdrawals and other transactions like inquiries and account
> transfers are always free, or is it four of any transaction, does anyone
> know?

ALL debit card transactions (including cashback) are FREE with DCU in a
supermarket.  The only transactions limited to 4 free per month are cash
withdrawals from ATM machines.

Inquires are not free and account transfer from non-DCU  ATM's are
not possible.

When an ATM withdrawls comes thru to the DCU's computers, the data sent
back to the foreign ATM (obviously in real time) includes the balance.
MOST FOREIGN ATMS elect not to provide that information for fee.  Some
ATMs do print the balance.  From personal experience, Citibank ATM's in
Chicago do not.  Some ATMs in Colorado Springs do.

Gim

RE: .18  (and others)

Gim is right in .25.

If you use your card to pay at the grocery store, and ask for Cash Back, the
whole amount goes in as a "Point of Sale" transaction, for which DCU charges no
fees.  This is also true at gas stations, but they don't ususally let you have
cash back

Also, please read the discussion in note 897.* "Check Card" (especially .132),
on the differences between using the card in ATM mode and in Visa mode.  It also
makes suggestions which may help you help your credit union!

Elaine

    
    FYI:
    
    I hear that in Mid-March 96, DCU will increase the 4 FREE ATM limit to
    8 FREE ATM uses per month.
    
    THe lady in DAS DCU told me this!  
    

If you deposit your net pay with DCU,
you get free checks and 8 free network ATM withdrawls/month.

If you don't, you are still limited to 4 free network/ATM
withdrawls.

Gim

    Gim ...
    
    "Free checks" ?  
    
    I thought all members now got free chequing ...  What is going on here?
    
    Stuart

re free checks:

not free checking which we already have, but no charge for the blank checks.
that is great news.  bravo for the new management.
it would have been micro management for the board to do this,
but it is great for management to do it.
our credit union is very healthy.

DCU is trying to encourage all members to make
DCU its primary financial institutions.  As
an encouragement, members who deposit their paychecks
with the credit union will get the standard checks printed
at no charge and get 8 free network ATM transactions.

This also applies to retirees who have their SS
checks direct deposited with the credit union.

This was effective 3/1. I called the credit union
today and heard this on the voice mail system.

Gim

>with the credit union will get the standard checks printed
>at no charge and get 8 free network ATM transactions.

Hahahah wouldn't you know it just after I got a year's worth of cheques
printed ... Murphy's law strikes again!

Stuart

    
    I have to call and ask about this. I'd like to see a basic credit
    issued instead because I purchase 3 checks to a page versions and I
    don't want to be left out.

It's quandries like these that I enjoy!

Years ago I started buying checks outside of DCU, not necessarily because
they were fantastic bargains, but I just figured if I was going to be paying
for the checks anyway, I might as well get a design I liked.

If DEFCU is going to start giving me free checks, I'll be more than happy
to forego my wildlife scenes, I guess.

-Jack

Now if DCU can figure out a way to give me a safety deposit box, 
I won't have a single reason left to keep that Baybank account. 
Still need a place for the wife's jewelry and those rare :-) coins 
of hers you know.

- Ganesh.

Please take this the correct way...I'm happy about this, believe me.  But how
come everyone is not screaming about "relationship banking" on this one?  Gasp!
You get cheaper services if you use the DCU more!

(Sorry for the somewhat sarcastic tone...)

Burns

    Seems to me that this kind of relationship I can take.  It's when
    I have to pay more to relate more that got me.
    
    Bill
    

    Re .33
    
    I could go for a credit towards (even) DCU orderable checks.   We
    haven't had VT220's as a product for quite a while.
    
    Now if DCU would like to revisit the "standard" design and perhaps
    offer alternative formats (3-up notebook, side and top tear checks)
    I don't think many of us would mind at all.
    
    Bill
    

    Although it would be nice if we at least upgraded the default check
    image to an AlphaStation or something, I'm happy with free checks even
    if they have a big purple dinosaur on them!  
    
    	Steve

I have to admit, that thought had been going through my mind too ... some
people deposit regularly a pay cheque ... but not electronically ... this
looks rather unfair.

Stuart

    re: .40
    
    I look at it as encouragement to reduce the costs to DCU of depositing a
    check every week.  I view it this way -- if you want reduced costs for
    withdrawing money electronically (ATM fee waiving), you're obligated to
    help contribute to reducing banking costs by depositing your money
    electronically as well.  I, personally, do not consider it 'rather
    unfair' -- unless there is some extenuating circumstance that makes it
    impossible for the DCU member to establish direct deposit for
    paychecks, e.g., non-cooperative bank cutting the checks (doesn't apply
    to Digital employees, certainly).  Are there any banks that won't
    cooperate with DCU to direct-deposit their checks?  In any case, I
    would not compare this situation with the 'no fees' debate of last
    year.  I think this is more comparable to larger CDs getting better
    interest rates.
    
    	Steve
    
    

>                -< Rather unfair?  I don't see it that way... >-

I understand what you are saying ... but it does cost an employer for an
electronic payroll service ... considering that the employer still has a 
lot of verification to do for every payroll, so there are still a lot of
employers who do the calculations themselves and cut the checks themselves.

And I did say rather ... meaning mildly ... certainly not grossly unfair
like the fees issues.  I would imagine for most people this amounts to
about $25 per year or so where the fees could easily have been $100 per year.

I would like to see some kind of exception for those whose employer does not
offer electronic transfer ... possibly a letter from the employer to state
that they don't ... so that the member can get these same benefits (as long as
DCU has evidence to show the regular deposit of what appears to be payroll.

Stuart

    re .42

>I understand what you are saying ... but it does cost an employer for an
>electronic payroll service ... considering that the employer still has a 
    
Though I haven't seen it lately, digital has occaisionally printed on the
paycheck stubs that it is LESS expensive for them to do direct deposit than
to give you an actual check.

Rich

For a company that cuts tens of thousands of paychecks weekly, such
as DIGITAL, that may be true. For a smaller company that only cuts dozens,
that may not be the case. There is a point of diminishing returns.

My wife's employer does not offer direct deposit.  Each two weeks, she takes
her paycheck and deposits it into her DCU account.  She was annoyed that she
would not be eligible for this enhancement.

				Steve

    
    Re .45:
    
    Good point.
    
    Talk to DCU management (you should probably start at the Information
    Center). They are truly focused (and measured) on member satisfaction.
    You might make the case that since your spouse is a
    "director-depositor-in-spirit", she should receive the enhanced
    ATM service.
    

Re: .46

Thanks for the suggestion.  I did that.  I was told that if their records
suggest that a payroll check is being regularly deposited (similar amounts
at regular intervals, such as weekly, biweekly or monthly), they will
qualify that account holder for the new offer.

				Steve

    
    Cool!
    

    DCU used to be our primary financial institution.  Now it's going to 
    be our *only* financial institution!  We've always had an account at 
    a bank, as well as our DCU accounts, for a variety of reasons.  Chief
    among them is the fact that there aren't any DCU branches near where
    we live (Boylston, which is NE of Worcester).  Even 4 free network ATM
    transactions a month wasn't quite enough of a draw, though it was close.
    
    Now that we get 8 free per month, it's a no-brainer -- we're going to
    add an extra checking account to our joint DCU account so that we can 
    each carry our own checkbooks, then close out all accounts at our bank.
    We'll no longer have to worry about who's going to buy our bank
    next and which branches they will close (People's/Shawmut/Fleet/???).
    and we won't have to worry anymore about the predatory fees that they 
    have started charging.  (Why should *I* pay $5 because somebody else
    bounced a check I deposited?  It's not my fault!)
    
    Doing business with the DCU just keeps getting better and better!
    
    		Enjoy,
    		Larry

RE: Note 936.47 by QUARK::LIONEL

>Thanks for the suggestion.  I did that.  I was told that if their records
>suggest that a payroll check is being regularly deposited (similar amounts
>at regular intervals, such as weekly, biweekly or monthly), they will
>qualify that account holder for the new offer.

Thanks for sharing that information.

This is the type of treatment that causes people to use DCU -- A VALUED CUSTOMER!!!

This NEVER would have happened in the years previous to the current board...

	- mark

Re .49 (predatory fees)

You're right, it's getting ridiculous. 

A friend just opened a basic checking account at Bank of Boston, and
I went along just to check the competition. They now have this 
new policy - if you *don't ever go into a branch and stand in line
for a teller*, your monthly fee is 50 cents. Otherwise, it's $2.50.

I keep hearing that tellers cost more than ATM's, but this just doesn't
sound like your friendly neighborhood business: Don't come in and see us 
- we'll pay you!

- Ganesh.

In the last few days the news reports in Boston have all been saying that
most banks are going to start charging their own fees for using their ATMs
for foreign transactions, in addition to what they extract from the foreign
banks! What kind of gross greed is this? It seems to negate the benefit of
DCU allowing some free foreign transactions.

I do see than some legislator is proposing to require the ATM to inform you
that it is going to impose a fee and let you exit without paying. That
would be a slight victory.

	Paul

    
    Yes, gross greed is a proper term. First they put them out there as a
    way to help reduce personnel costs. Then they start closing branches
    because we all start using ATM machines. That's fine. Now that they've
    accomplished their goal and we're techno-junkies, they start charging
    fees for it. They ATM-using public should inundate their customer
    service lines with calls of outrage. Tie up the lines! Start using the
    bank branches and force them to add more personnel. I mean, these banks
    have had record profits and now they want more! This is ridiculous!

There are a number of states which already permit this - I have seen it 
most often with ATMs in airports and hotels.  Unfortunately, according to
a consumer group advocate I heard on the radio recently, consumers are
pretty much powerless against widespread banking industry practices.

				Steve

    
    I don't agree that we're powerless. That's why AT&T invented 800
    numbers. As I said, if people INUNDATE customer support 800 numbers
    with calls of outrage, tie up the phone lines, visit banks to demand
    personal service, etc. they'd get the message. 

Customer support where?  If 500 banks implement these surcharges on their
ATMs (and the surcharges will typically be for users who are NOT their
customers), how many complaints will individual banks get (and they typically
WON'T have 800-numbers!)

DCU is bucking the banking industry trend towards fleecing customers (and
users of services) as much as possible.  The interview I heard said that
what generally happens is that one bank ups a fee, and the rest all fall in
lock-step.  But if one bank reduces a fee, the others do nothing.

You're seeing some resistance (and effects thereof) to banks charging their
own customers ATM fees, but you're not going to see anything organized about
foreign ATM charges by the owners of those ATMs.

			Steve

I responded to my bank here in Atlanta by closing all
my accounts and transferring everything to DCU.  While
in the branch, on a busy Saturday morning, I made sure
that I was in my best 'projecting' voice when I explained
to the bank droid that I was closing everything because
they were eating me alive with fees, charging me for saving
them money by using ATM's, moving to my credit union where
they valued me as a customer and not just as a source of
income etc, etc, etc.

Not a big thing, but I felt better.

mark

Sure, you can do that when your own bank charges you fees, but this latest
discussion is about the case when you go to use a foreign ATM and the bank
which owns the ATM charges you a fee.  You're not THEIR customer, so you
have no leverage.

				Steve

I don't really care if Baybank, Bank of Boston or Fleet want to charge me
$100, or $1000, for each DCU-related ATM transaction I make at their branch.
If they tried to hit me for anything more than $0.00, I'd just stop using 
their ATM's, and they'd lose any revenue they currently get from DCU 
on my behalf.

Decency dictates that every bank clearly post its fee schedule 
(if any) for foreign ATM transactions right next to the machine.

Re .57 - good work, every little helps to get the message across.

- Ganesh.

I think this is a subject where legislation is appropriate.
While they are free to impose whatever charges they want, they should be
required to do so in a very overt way.

One way they have already been doing it is to charge the other bank a fee
which it can decide to pass on to the customer or not. I have a contractual
relationship with my own bank, and have agreed to a particular fee
schedule, and this then falls under it.

What they are apparently planning to do is in effect make another
withdrawal transaction, of any amount they choose, in addition to whatever
I have requested them to do. Before they can do that, I think they must
explictly ask my permission to make such a withdrawal, each time they want
to do it.

Of course this won't help much if you can't find an ATM that doesn't charge
a fee!

Perhaps the problem will get better if a lot of these greedy bank's ATMs
start finding their credit card slots filled with epoxy. :-)

	Paul

In every case where I have used an ATM that imposed a fee of its own, that
fact was clearly posted and there was an on-screen warning with the ability to
cancel the transaction if I wanted to.  Pending Mass. legislation would 
require this in that state.

I agree - if you have a choice, use an ATM with no surcharge.  Unfortunately,
you may have less of a choice in the future.

				Steve

Just to help each other out to save some money, I've put up a dynamic web
page to track ATM fees (the fees charged by the bank to use our DCU ATM cards).
It's at http://plugh.ibg.ljo.dec.com/bank-fees.html.

Please just post validated fees, one per bank, and only include the fees
that a DCU member using a DCU card would be charged by the OTHER bank.

j.

DCU did a survey, which they will share with you if you call.  Most of
bank ATM's in New England said they will not be charging the fee at their
ATM machines (BoB, Fleet, Hudson Savings come to mind).  I was told to
be aware that Cirrus machines will probably be charging a fee.  If any
machine is going to do that, they will tell you up front.  They will,
I understand, add the fee onto the amount that is withdrawn from your
account, which may matter to some people.

Elaine

� They will, I understand, add the fee onto the amount that is withdrawn 
� from your account, which may matter to some people.

Maybe I'm being dense, Elaine (wouldn't be the first time today), but what's
the alternative?  I can't imagine any other way to assess the fees.

j.

	Give you a dollar less than requested? ;-)

    When the charge is levied by the originating bank/CU/whatever,
    it appears on the statement as a separate item that identifies 
    it as an ATM charge.  Or so it did for me, the few times that I
    ever used a card where the originating bank charged a fee.
    
    	Larry

>    When the charge is levied by the originating bank/CU/whatever,
>    it appears on the statement as a separate item that identifies 
>    it as an ATM charge.  Or so it did for me, the few times that I
>    ever used a card where the originating bank charged a fee.

Does this mean that the DCU sees this as two transactions: one to withdraw
a $1 ATM fee and another to withdraw the desired amount?

If so, then perhaps this will count as two transactions against the 4 or 8
free ones? So maybe eventually we end up paying a $1 DCU transaction fee
for the $1 foreign ATM fee?

That would be a nice scam!

    Paul    

    I guess my term "originating bank" was confusing.  I meant that when
    the bank that holds YOUR money is the one that charges the fee, it
    appears (or has appeared for me) as a separate charge.  It's still
    one transaction.  
    
    If the bank who owns the machine that you are using charges the fee,
    they have a couple of choices:  give you less than you asked for, 
    withdraw more from your account than you specified, or make a second
    withdrawal of the amount of their fee.  The latter course could cause
    you to get billed for two transactions, the first doesn't work because
    bank machines don't stock $1 bills, so they pick the middle choice.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry
    

    
    When I was out West during the summer of '94, we frequently encountered
    ATM's that would charge back the dollar to the account, but in Utah, if
    I remember correctly, the law there was a bit, uh, strange by my
    standards in that they deducted the dollar from the amount they were
    going to give you. The problem was that there was a $300 daily limit,
    but since the machines would only spit in $20 increments, and since
    they did take the buck first, we had an actual/physical limit of $280
    per day. Other states, like Wyoming and New Mexico didn't do this,
    as I recall.
    
    If it's different from what I recall, I stand corrected/updated.
    

I just discovered, that the 'free check' deal is only good
for one box of checks at a time!  Seems kind of silly and
more costly to have me come in every few months and place a
new order for one measely box of checks when a single 4 box
order would likely cover the entire year. And it also appears
that they don't check automatically for the direct deposit.
You have to tell them when you drop off the re-order slip.

Mind you, this is just a nit - but it seems like incomplete
follow through on a great service.

mark  

    Is there a charge for carbon-duplicate variety?

    re: .71
    
    > Is there a charge for carbon-duplicate variety?
    
    Apparently not.  When I requested my free checks, I didn't specify what
    type I wanted, and they sent the duplicate type.
    
    	Steve

That's correct.  The basic checks that are free are the 
duplicate type.

Elaine

My wife recently opened a "Money Market" account (share 2) - she received
a box of checks for it.  Is she going to be charged for these?  (She does
qualify for the "free checks" offer otherwise.)

					Steve

The checks for the money markets accounts are free. Keep in
mind that you are restricted to three checks a month on this
account.

Gim

        Also, for those who would like a large amount of available checks.
    You get one "free" order a month, so I suppose you could go back
    monthly and get another box.

    Also, they are supposedly coming up with a new "DCU" design (don't know
    what it is) so "Bye bye VT220" sometime (and also it seemed to be
    implied those would be the free checks).

The free basic checks are not the VT220 design.  It's a plain
but nice blue check.

Elaine