Conference 7.286::dcu

My last batch of checks from Current came back with a leading zero, as in a five
digit check number.  While it is certainly possible to reuse a check number, I
would not be in favor of forcing people to do that.  Low number checks mean a
lot to certain people/businesses.  That's why I've insisted on keeping my check
numbers consecutive, even when I hav changes banking institutions.

What you are asking is not an unreasonable request.  You should contact the
Board members.  It may be "kicking and screaming", but we'll get DCU into the 
modern age, one way or another!

:-)

Elaine

>    Is there problems reusing check numbers?

Apparently not. 12 to 15 months ago I ordered a batch of 300 checks
from a 3rd party and specified the beginning check number to follow
my then current supply. The printer made an error and when I received
the checks, the starting check number was 1000 too low. I called the
supplier to point out the error and they said "No problem - we'll
ship you a new batch beginning at the right number. You can either
use or destroy the erroneous batch." I hung onto them and when the
newly arrived proper sequence of 300 ran out, I used the others. As
these check numbers hadn't been active for several years, I didn't
care, and neither did DCU - not even a hiccup. I've been using DCU
for checking for about 12 years now and am only up to about 5000
or so, but I wouldn't mind dropping back to 1000 or 2000 to restart
when that becomes an issue.

The bottom line to me, is that there are much more important things
to worry about.

-Jack

    What do low number checks mean to certain people/businesses, and why?
    Certainly they can be taken to suggest that this particular checking
    account is relatively new, but why would they care?  Note I'm not
    talking about check number 1, I'm talking about, say, check number
    1000 -- low enough to provide lots of time before hitting the magical
    9000 barrier.
    
    	Thanks,
    	Larry
    
    PS:  Note that I'm not arguing against 5 digit check numbers, I'm
    just wondering what the problem is with low check numbers.

    of course there are more important things to worry about, Jack, but
    Had I ordered my checks begining at 9000, which I had intended to do,
    we would have been in trouble due to DCU's software.   Dcu must tell 
    us about these things and relized that they are not the sole vender of 
    the checks, especially when they can not provide them.
    
    I have shared these concerns with the bod, and encourage them in their
    pursuit of new management to find people with a vision of future
    banking.
    ed
    

    I recently received two sets of checks numbered 701-900.  Being of
    proud Yankee stock as well as of Scottish heritage, among others,
    I have used both sets, no problem.
    
    ed

Okay, so check numbers probably aren't that big a deal.  The only restrictions I
have seen is some retail establishments will not take checks in the 100's.  But
given you can ask a set of printed checks to start with any number you want,
that is probably not a good sign anymore.

I have come to learn that checks with higher numbers (over 2000) signal that you
are a stable, financially sound individual.  Now that my checks are in that
range, it's too bad that no longer means anything.

But given that you can order checks with any numbers you want, and that DCU has
restrictions on check numbers, they should include this as a little sidebar in
the next DCU Network issue.  Well, since that is about a week away, it might
have to go into the statements of checking account holders.

I wonder if there are any other little "gotchas" like this?

Elaine

In the past several years, check printers have added a small mm/yy next to
the adress to indicate when the account was opened.  It may not be on checks
from all banks, though.

					Steve

That's interesting, Steve. I hadn't seen that used.

If one has one's checks printed through other than the bank (i.e. mailorder
3rd party), what's to prevent one from requesting false info there, or do
they only use what's been preprinted before and assume no one has "cheated"?

    	Unless the laws have changed, I was under the impression that
    the "form" of the check offered great latitude, including the use
    of table napkins, provided certain information was present.  I
    don't believe that a check "number" is one of the requirements
    (as opposed to the name/"account number").  Thus I think one could
    just copy check number 500 about a thousand times on your local
    copying machine and use lots of "checks" all with the same number.
    Have the laws changed to prevent this?
    
    Dave Eklund
    

Re: .8

All of the third-party check printers ads I have seen specify a requirement
that you send a voided check, they copy what's on there.  When I switched
from bank checks to those from "Checks in the Mail", the mm/yy was reproduced.
My wife's checks, from another company (and another bank), also have it.

Re: .9

There's no law whatsoever about check numbers.

				Steve

Merchants are wary of starter checks -- the ones that don't have your name
printed on them.

    
    I've been talking with Paul K and Tom Ryan [vp of operations-dcu] re
    the check -9000 issue.

    This is a summary of the discussion with Tom that I agreed to enter
    here:


    o checks that begin with 9xxx will be processed as if they were drawn
      against a line of credit.

    o DCU is now going to communicate with those members whose checks are
      approaching 9000


    [I reminded Tom that people order checks external to DCU and that if
    they were in the situation that I found myself in, it would be too
    late]

    o DCU will put in NETWORK a description of the problem.

    [I reminded Tom that people don't always read NETWORK, that a reminder
    on the checking account monthly may reach more people.]

    I was told that DCU has worked out the issues of computer checks and
    the info center and branches should be able to help.  I went to my 
    local branch this morning and they hauled out a book that had the
    computer checks.   continues form checks.  NO cut sheet forms.
    back to the drawing board.  Tom said he'd check this out with the
    vendor.

    Tom did talk about a number of other future checking events that will
    occur, but did not want me to discuss piece meal.  |Future looks 
    promising.  I would encourage anyone else who wants better options of
    computer access to register their opinion.

    If reference to computer checks, they are planning a nice little side
    detail [implementation not worked out, so asked not to list it] that
    helps take some of the byte out of using a non-duplicate type check.


    Perhaps they'll check some of these things out with members prior
    to implementation like that debit card.  give us a [can I use] choice.


    
    
    ed
    
    

  The Month and Year put on the checks is usually put on by the bank when you
open the account.  It will disappear if you buy from a third party and cross
it out if you want that done.  My last bank also wanted my phone number
on the checks but I told them I wouldn't permit it.

>			My last bank also wanted my phone number
>on the checks but I told them I wouldn't permit it.

That's interesting. I've never had a bank suggest or request that I
put my phone number on the checks, but since most retailers taking
checks require it, I found it a lot easier to have it preprinted
than to recite it everytime I write a check in a store. It really
can't serve any purpose for the bank.

re: .15

Jack,

Two reasons people don't want their phone number printed on checks:

1)  If you lose a check/checkbook and have an unlisted phone number, a thief
can drive to your house, call your number from a cell phone and check to see
if you are home before they break in.

2)  You are a single female - the guy behind you in the checkout line at
the grocery just read your phone number off your check while the clerk scans
the items you are purchasing.

Bob

re Note 922.1 by STRSHP::RITCHIE:

> My last batch of checks from Current came back with a leading zero, as in a five
> digit check number.  

        Is that true for both the "human readable" number (in the
        upper right corner) and the MICR check number on the bottom?

        The reason I ask is that my BayBank checking account is now
        over #12000 (the printed number in the corner) but the MICR
        check number on the bottom just displays the last four digits
        (rolled over at 10K).

        (People occasionally remark "wow, what a big check number",
        which I guess is a lot nicer than being refused for a number
        too low.)

        Bob

    kinda like wearing a tie, says nothing about your financial standing,
    credibility, honesty, etc. but some people are more impressed than they
    are by the guy in denim coveralls.
    
    ed

    So, what does happen if a check numbered 9xxx is presented to DCU?
    
    I subscribe to CheckFree, and on occasion they write a paper check
    drawn from my account, not theirs.  These checks are randomly numbered,
    and it wouldn't surprise me if a 9xxx check gets issued every so often. 
    
    --Pat

    The story gets very muddy here.  The first attempt will be to take the
    money out of your line of credit account.If you don't have a line of
    credit account, they have been tight lipped over what happens.
    a branch told me they had two horror stories already, but everything
    is under control.
    lack of planning/foresight/communications on this issue concerns me.
    Especially in view of the fact I was going to order checks begining
    with 9000.
    
    also, don't worry be happy.  The ATM machine ate my new atm card last
    night.  I worked late, need money for the night hit the atm and it said
    my card was not longer valid.  I had used the card since getting it
    as a replacement for the debit card I did not want.
    
    speaking of the debit card, I hate to say I told you so, but seeing the
    horror story on the illegal use of one, it makes me wonder why anyone
    would want such a dangerous card.  With a credit card, if the number is
    stolen, the worse it can do is not allow you to make future purchases
    [credit limit hit].  But if you write a series of checks, mail them
    off, then someone uses your card, your checks can and will bounce all
    over the place.  I don't need that.
    
    ed
    
    

    All I'll say is that some of us find the debit card extremely useful
    and the supposed "risks" are quite acceptable. Don't even think of
    trying to take my debit card away! If I wanted a risk-free life I
    wouldn't get out of bed in the morning.
    
    -glenn-

>    also, don't worry be happy.  The ATM machine ate my new atm card last
>    night.  I worked late, need money for the night hit the atm and it said
>    my card was not longer valid.

I've never had or used an ATM card, but the more I hear of stories like
this, the more I wonder if everyone wouldn't be well advised to affix a
nylon strap to their ATM cards like the kid did in Terminator 2. At least
that way if the damn machine tries to get smart with you, you can pull
the thing back.

:^)

    We take risks everyday, but, I'd rather not walk through the combat
    zone with $100 bills pined to my back.  Nor head on a 20ton truck in
    a '56VW vs being in a Volvo.
    
    No one is suggesting that DCU remove the Debit card as an option for
    those who can live with the additional risks over and above what they'd
    face with a tradional credit card/check.  I suggest that users are
    better informed by DCU than they have been.
    ed
    

    I just called DCU and convinced the customer service rep that it was
    possible for a check numbered 9xxx to be presented to DCU for payment. 
    As mentioned before, she said this will cause a withdrawal from line of
    credit.  If there's no line of credit, then the check will bounce. 
    Hopefully DCU's gotten this straightened out as a result of past
    incidents alluded to earlier.
    
    Has anybody else here who uses CheckFree encountered a check numbered
    in the Forbidden Range that bounced?
    
    --Pat

    A couple of quick calls answered my question... CheckFree numbers their
    checks from 0001-4999, so there will never be a conflict with DCU's
    9000+ numbers.
    
    --Pat

It may be possible to skip from check 8999 to 10000, to get around the problem
at DCU...