Conference 7.286::dcu

I recieved a mailing for each of my 3 kids.  What confused me at first was
the cover letter.  It implied that I had made a mistake when I opened these
accounts up over 5 years ago, but that DCU just got around to figuring that
out.  On re-reading the letter several times, it just states that the accounts
are incorrect now.

I also have the same complaint as .0 - the information supplied is wholly
inadequate and does not really explain the facts well enough to make
an informed desision.

Alice

    
    RE: Ed & others
    
    I have no idea what is going on with these letters and what is driving
    them.  I can't recall being briefed on anything in this area.  Please
    give the Info line a call and see if they know what this is all about.
    
    As for your kid's question Ed, I hope to be able to answer at the end
    of April.  In the meantime I'm working hard to be able to give a good
    answer. 
    

    
    I wanted to open a Passbook savings account for my 2 children(6 and 8)
    so that they could have a "hardcopy document" of their savings. I feel
    that if they can hold onto this document"passbook", it would provide
    more of an incentive for them to "grasp" the idea of a savings account.
    
    Unfortunately, DCU does not offer these, so I opened one up for each of
    them at my local town bank.
    
    The DCU's loss is another banks gain...
    
    Randy
    

    I just got one of these infamous letters too, yesterday, and I hauled i
    into the office to remind myself to call my local friendly DCU, if
    they'll even answer the GD phone, and see if anyone can make some sense
    of this.
    
    I have banked locally to me for many years now, and that bank has yet
    to inform me that my "In trust for" account for my youngster is now an
    account status "in error".  For petey's sake, when I opened the DCU
    account for my son a coupla years ago, it's one of those $5.00 basic
    accounts so that I could open up an Xmas Club for him, (another fiasco
    I am still "in denial" over, and haven't dealt with, yet)...  and the
    money could come directly from my (meagre) pay and be direct-deposited
    into his club, this was how I was advised to open the account!  Now
    it's "wrong"?  And what, pray tell, am I supposed to do with it?  Close
    the whole shooting match out and just go patronize my local bank, which
    also doesn't get any high marks from me for a whole bunch of reasons,
    but seems to be less hassle than this?
    
    I can't figure out if I want a UGTM Act account, or I just want some
    sort of basic account, which is what I asked for in the first place,
    just so he can have his Xmas Club (unless I close those suckers, his
    and mine out!) and have the convenience of the deduction going directly
    from my cheque to his account...
    
    Oh, nuts, it might be time to go back to hiding the stuff under the
    mattress, for the all the interest our money earns...
    
    Mutter...
    
    Marina
    
    

    My personal solution in dealing with my kids account was to set up a
    regular savings for them and have a percentage of my pay deposited to
    them every week.  Then, periodically withdraw all of it and deposit it
    into their college funds managed by Fidelity Investments.
    
    From there I can choose a variety of no-load funds including those that
    are managed by Fidelity.  When they get older, the funds can optionally
    have a check writing feature along with direct deposit etc.
    
    The return far exceeds what they'd get from any of the instruments DCU
    offers.
    
    					John G.

�    My personal solution in dealing with my kids account was to set up a
�    regular savings for them and have a percentage of my pay deposited to
�    them every week.  
    
    John, that's what I did too, or thought I did.  I received the same
    letter as these others have and am also confused.  I haven't had a
    chance to run down to the local branch and have them talk me through it
    yet.
    
    re a few back:  I didn't realize anyone was offering passbook savings
    accounts anymore.  I thought everyone had joined the computer/mailed
    statement age.

    
    I know my kids have active passbook accounts -- haven't a clue which
    bank, will check on it this weekend.
    

	I still have a passbook savings account -- Cape Cod Cooperative
Bank.

						--Doug

    
    I had a passbook savings account at Workers Credit Union while I had my
    car loan with them.  
    

WCIS (Worcester County Institute for Savings) has passbook accounts. No fees,
no minimum balance, interest bearing at any deposit level.

Chris    

    
    My kids' passbook accounts are at Peoples; a fried of theirs has one
    at NSF.
    

    
    >I had a passbook savings account at Workers Credit Union while I had my
    >car loan with them.  
    
    	I opened a Savings Account with Workers C.U. last June to handle
    my new car loan. No pass book, only quarterly statements. (Which is
    the way I like it BTW...)
    
    JimH
    
    

    I got the same letter from the dcu regarding my sons account.  All of
    the options presented to convert the account to require more paperwork
    ,now and in the future, than I am willing to do.  My son is 3, I wanted
    the account to deposit gift checks etc that he gets.
    
    Bottom line - I can't get what I want at the dcu so I closed his
    account and probably will end up closing all of my perfered customer
    accounts.  

  You guys still don't get the picture!  These are all obvious abuses of the
DCU.  They don't want your business!!!

    
    RE: .16
    
    I don't understand AT ALL what is going on here!  Hasn't DCU provided
    you with a DEFAULT category?  Why should it be necessary to close any
    accounts?
    

    I was told that the account could not continue to exist the way it is
    today.  The choices I was faced with are:
    UTMA - child can't touch until there 21.  Real practical for college
    expenses.  Any withdrawls you make have to be documented to the irs.
    
    Totten trust - account set up against my social security number so that
    I can pay taxes on the interest his money earns.
    
    Fiduciary account - My son is not the executor, adminstrator or
    gaurdian of anything.
    
    Living Trust - I do not want to go through the hassle of setting up a
    legal trust to cash birthday checks.
    
    I just want a simple account to cash checks he receives and earn a
    little interest for him.  When I get his account established in a local
    bank, not some pissant credit union, my accounts will follow.

    re: .18
    
    No, Phil.  The body of my daughter's letter reads:
    
    "When the account listed above was opened, it was incorrectly
    identified with one of these descriptions: ITF, CUST, or TRUST.
    
    "To ensure DCU has met your savings needs, we request your assistance in
    correctly identifying this account.  The enclosed brochure explains in
    detail the types of Trust and Fiduciary Accounts available.  Please
    select the appropriate account type, complete that portion of the
    enclosed form, and return it in the postage-paid envelope by 03/18/94.
    
    "If you would like to convert this account to a Regular Savings
    Account, need assistance in completing this form, or would like more
    information on DCU's Trust and Fiduciary Accounts, please call
    800/328-8797 or DTN/223-6735, ext. 337."
    
    By default, it appears that you fall into a black hole of "incorrect"
    accounts.  First, I am an "abuser", now my daughter is "incorrect".
    
    I'll probably close the account as well, unless DCU decides to do it
    for me on the 19th.  I only recieved the letter Saturday.  That leaves
    precious little time to decifer the pamphlet mumbo-jumbo (which
    describes certain attributes of the accounts, but doesn't give much to
    go on; nowhere does it even say 'The account closest to the current
    structure is xxx') and return the envelope to DCU hq (which can take a
    few days from here).
    
    Nothing like fostering positive feelings...
    
    -- Russ

    Have some IRS or banking regulations changed which have made these
    accounts no longer correct?

I received the same package for my 19-month old daughter's account which
we had opened as simply a place to to deposit gift checks.

It looked to me like what I wanted was one of those Uniform Gift to Minor's
accounts.  Basically, it means that the money belongs to her, but that I or her
father (we are both "custodians") control the money until she is old enough to
do it herself.  Interest is reported against her social security (though I
understand that tax laws require us to pay interest at our tax rate until she's
14.)  Should we make any withdrawals, we should be prepared to show how they
were used to her benefit.  

Although this is not our college savings vehicle, it could certainly be used 
for that purpose.  College tuition money falls into the category of benefitting
the child.

Possibly I'm missing something here, but I *think* the main problem is that
the brochure/letter was not particularly informative as to why this change was
necessary.  My interpretation was that DCU messed up when we opened the account
by giving it the wrong designation.

- Deb (not an expert, just sharing her perception)

    
    I have asked that this be added to our March Board meeting agenda.  I
    certainly would like to know what this is all about, as I am sure you
    would also.  The very short amount of time for people to respond is
    troubling.  
    

    I would hope we could have some answers before then.  The deadline for
    making the changes is fast approaching.

    
    RE: .24
    
    Sorry, I don't run DCU, didn't establish this deadline and haven't the
    foggiest idea where this whole issue came from or why.  You need to
    speak with Chuck.  But since DCU is reading this file, he should
    already know there is some confusion in this area and have the Info
    Center ready to answer members questions.
    
    So what do these letters say is going to happen after this deadline if
    nothing is done?
    

    re: .25
    
    My daughter's letter says what I typed in earlier.  There is no
    indication of what will happen after the indicated date.
    
    -- Russ

    Teller at LKG just said the date on the letter is not a big deal.
    I asked what would happen if I did not respond by then and she
    said it would probably be converted to a regular savings account.
    It didn't leave me with a real comfortable feeling.  I'm not
    touching the money in there until after the end of the month
    when interest gets posted.
    
    Janice

�    Sorry, I don't run DCU, didn't establish this deadline and haven't the
�    foggiest idea where this whole issue came from or why.  You need to
�    speak with Chuck.  
    
    But I thought you wanted to be the liason between the membership and
    DCU membership and that was one of the reasons you didn't want DCU
    managment to read this file.

    
    RE: .26 & .27
    
    I guess I don't understand the purpose of this "deadline" given what
    you have stated.  This makes even less sense to me now.
    
    RE: .28
    
>    But I thought you wanted to be the liason between the membership and
>    DCU membership and that was one of the reasons you didn't want DCU
>    managment to read this file.
    
    	Mr. MacNeal, a person who has been on *3* Boards such as yourself
    would recognize that 1) I have a real job here at Digital, 2) we all
    pay DCU employees and management to handle the day-to-day operations of
    this sort, 3) This whole thing is already out there and done and there
    is little if anything I can do about it, 4) YOU can call the DCU Info
    just as easy as I can, 5) I'm not your personal gopher for every little
    piece of trivia you desire so please learn how to fend for yourself.
    

    RE: .29
    
    I started off by expressing a concern that was not targetted at a
    specific director knowing that DCU management and more than 1 director
    read this conference.  You chose to take this personally.
    
    You have volunteered to get this discussed at the March meeting.  I
    merely pointed out that this might be after the deadline published in
    the mailing.  You have stated that you feel you should be the liason
    between the members and management (but apparently, only where you have
    an interest).  You were able to get quick resolution on the Holiday
    Club issue, yet you are pushing back on this one.  Other members have
    said they have not been able to get info from their local branches.  I
    am also going to attempt that and was looking at this conference as an
    additional resource to get the information I need.

    I called the extension stated in the letter at the DCU info line,
    and the gentleman there said that they weren't sure yet what they 
    would do after the 18th.  They would have to go back to DCU legal
    and ask some more questions.
    
    Janice

    
>    You have volunteered to get this discussed at the March meeting.  I
>    merely pointed out that this might be after the deadline published in
>    the mailing.
    
    Not having a single piece of information on this issue and given the
    very quick deadline given, there is nothing I can do.  I am also buried
    at work.  Do you understand all this?
    
    >You have stated that you feel you should be the liason
    >between the members and management (but apparently, only where you have
    >an interest).  
    
    Yes, on policy issues and direction.  It appears DCU management
    considered this operational since we were not informed of it ahead of
    time.  Do you understand this?
    
    >You were able to get quick resolution on the Holiday
    >Club issue, yet you are pushing back on this one.  
    
    Quick?  It took several weeks.  And there was no deadline involved.  It
    was also a clear policy decision for DCU.  Indications here are that
    there may be some sort of regulations involved.  Do you understand all
    this?
    
    >Other members have
    >said they have not been able to get info from their local branches.  I
    >am also going to attempt that and was looking at this conference as an
    >additional resource to get the information I need.
    
    What information do you need that you think I have or can get you that
    you can't also get by calling DCU?
    
>    I started off by expressing a concern that was not targetted at a
>    specific director knowing that DCU management and more than 1 director
>    read this conference.  You chose to take this personally.
    
    Keith, it has been stated repeatedly that DCU can't respond in this
    file.  There have been NO other Directors in here actively
    participating in discussions.  Your reply was posted immediately
    following my reply that stated I'd ask to have it brought up at our
    Board meeting.  How stupid of me to think you were speaking to me.
    Do you actually believe the stuff you write or expect others to buy your
    statements above?  I have been asked by MANY people to simply stop
    responding to you and any way, shape or form and I'm afraid that is
    what I'm going to have to do.  I think your little games have become
    all to obvious and they have nothing to do with having a reasonable and
    intelligent discussion of issues without misquoting people out of
    context, demanding "facts" yet not believing anything posted or even a
    willingness to ascertain any facts on your own.  When you feel like
    doing this, let us all know and I'll consider responding to you.  But
    right now, you seem to want to play some strange game that I have no
    interest in playing.  There are too many important issues to discuss
    without having these games get in the way and the issues obscured by
    the rat-holes your games create.  Oh yeah, and please don't "take
    this personally".
    

�Indications here are that
�    there may be some sort of regulations involved.  
    
    I recall other questions around Regulation D being questioned in here
    and you provided answers at the time.
    
�    Not having a single piece of information on this issue and given the
�    very quick deadline given, there is nothing I can do.  I am also buried
�    at work.  Do you understand all this?
 
    Gee, a civil response with no personal attack (well, almost).  Maybe if
    you had not leaped to the attack after I stated my concern over the
    timeing we wouldn't be down this rathole.
    
�    What information do you need that you think I have or can get you that
�    you can't also get by calling DCU?
    
    Have you read the replies in here, Phil?  People have talked to tellers
    and called DCU and have not received any information which has made it
    easier for them to figure out what was going on and to properly choose
    an account.
    
�    Keith, it has been stated repeatedly that DCU can't respond in this
�    file.  There have been NO other Directors in here actively
�    participating in discussions.  
    
    But we had DCU memos posted in here in response to some of the issues
    discussed.  Yes it is a rarity, but it does happen.
    
�I have been asked by MANY people to simply stop
�    responding to you and any way, shape or form and I'm afraid that is
�    what I'm going to have to do.  
    
    Add me to the list of those asking to simply stop responding to me.  I
    would appreciate answers to my questions over some of your typical
    responses and personal attacks.

    I just spoke with a teller at the HLO branch.  Here's the scoop:
    
    DCU will no longer offer ITF accounts (I didn't ask why).  I was told
    that I could choose from one of those accounts in the mailing, or I
    could set up essentially a club account.  When I explained that all I
    wanted was a place to deposit birthday money, accumulate money towards
    the purchase of savings bonds, etc. that I should choose the Custodial
    Account.  I will be able to make deposits and withdrawls as needed. 
    The interest for tax purposes will be reported as my daughters', not
    mine provided that I list their social security numbers.  You have to
    name a successor on the account (someone who will take your place in
    the event of death such as a spouse).
    
    Once my daughters reach age 21, these accounts become theirs
    completely.
    
    The teller was extremely helpful and aknowledged that the mailing was
    confusing and that alot of others had the very same questions.
    
    Why did I wait until now to go to the branch?  I finally remembered to
    bring the forms in and make some time to go.  Why did I ask questions
    in here?  I like multipronged approaches to problems.  If my questions
    could have been answered here before I made the trip to the branch, so
    much the better.  If not, I had other avenues.
    
    I still don't know why these changes were made but I do know that I can
    have an account that meets my needs.

    
>    DCU will no longer offer ITF accounts (I didn't ask why).
    
    Well then the question seems to be how do these "ITF" accounts differ
    from the current choices and why have we stopped offering them?  If
    this was not dictated by a regulatory change then why have we done
    this?  Any other questions I should get answered at the Board meeting?
    

FWIW:

It is USUALLY better to have the money in the parents name and not in the childs...

Why?

Currently financial aid for college is the biggest reason:

If the child has the money in their name, it counts more against child
than if the parent had it in their name.

If memory serves me correctly you can save a maximum of something like
$250 a year because you have money in childs name.  Problem is that
$10,000 in the childs name will give the child a lot less financial aid
money...

As always, talk to your financial advisor to fully understand all tax
implications.

	- mark

Thank you, Keith, for getting the information and providing
it here.

Collis

    Ed, I didn't ask about any interest penalty for switching.  I didn't
    even think of that.  I guess I assumed since this was a change that
    they required that there wouldn't be.  It seems to be a renaming of an
    account rather than a closing and opening.

    	I forgot about the letters I received for my two kids accounts as
    the deadline neared. In one letter, under the ITF account, it stated
    that I could convert it over to any one of the four available accounts
    or I could convert this over to a regular account. 
    	Silly me thought this the thing to do, convert both accounts over
    to regular accounts. One minor problem with this...   The regular
    account application has to be signed by the person under whose name
    the account will be. Kinda tough for my two year old to do so I was
    told I can't open a regular account for him. I can't convert my
    daughter's account because she hasn't yet learned how to sign her
    name, she can only print it and that's not a legal signature...
    	I'm leaning towards closing out both their accounts and moving 
    them to a bank that offers more.
    	I've tried to be leniant towards all this crap that continues to
    filter out of DCU, but it's just getting overwhelming.

    >The regular
    >account application has to be signed by the person under whose name
    >the account will be. Kinda tough for my two year old to do so I was
    >told I can't open a regular account for him.
    
    If that's the case, then DCU has changed the rules again (or some
    regulation changed forcing them to change the rules).  I opened
    regular savings accounts for both of my children - neither of which
    could sign their names - all I had to do was sign for them, and
    indicate that I signed for them (I think this was simply signing their
    name and then saying "By <my signature>".  Once the are old enough to
    sign for themselves, I will simply send in updated signature cards.
    
    --Scott

    What ever happened to an "X".  Witnesses are required, but if it legal
    for a contract, why not DCU.
    

It is a fallacy that printing is not a legal signature.

*Any* mark that the person chooses to call his/her legal
signature is legal (as long as there is no attempt to
defraud).

Collis

    re. last few
    
    	I was told I couldn't have them put an X for their "mark" and
    quantify it with my signature nor was a printed "signature" good.
    I just gave up arguing and took the UTMA. Maybe later I'll close it
    out and get them into bonds...

    re -1 I hope your ready for all the irs paperwork when you close the
    account!!!!

    
    Well, my request to have this issue discussed at our Board meeting
    yesterday was schloffed off.  It seems this is "operational" and Mary
    Madden will be glad to explain it to me on the phone.  So I guess
    anybody who wishes to know anything can also call Mary Madden (DTN
    223-6735 x207).
    

    	I finally got my letter(s).  Timely.  I'm willing to bet that
    the issue is one of legal fine points.  I have no intention of
    changing the acounts, if I can avoid it.  And at least one of them
    has been there for over 16 years...  just figured out the problem,
    did we?!  I am only willing to change things IF there is a LEGAL
    problem (the account is of an illegal kind), rather than a type
    of account which DCU would "rather not have" (for those legal
    fine points of some interesting nature).  So, if anyone finds out
    that the account is illegal, let me know.  Otherwise, woe unto
    the agency who attempts to break an existing contract (the account)
    without my consent.  As far as I'm concerned, opening an account
    constitutes a legal contract; modifying the contract requires
    consent.
    
    Dave Eklund
    

    	I just spoke with my local branch manager, and indicated my
    displeasure.  I asked specifically whether the accounts which
    I have are illegal in nature, and she would not say that they
    were illegal.  Fine.  I indicated in that case I intended to
    leave them alone.  She offered to have someone call me.  I will
    try to post the response I get to my questions when/if anyone
    calls me.
    
    Dave Eklund
    

    	I guess no one wants to talk to me - possibly because:
    
    	a. I'm going to ask really hard questions.
    
    	b. I'm going to summarize the answers here.
    
    So let me speculate for a moment.  I am willing to believe that
    DCU simply does not WANT accounts with the particular wording used
    on mine and others.  In particular, I could imagine that the wording
    may translate to a situation where funny things might happen if/when
    the child should die.
    
    	Consider: child in question dies.  Parent/custodian withdraws the
    money and spends it.  The lawyer for the child's estate now approaches
    the bank/CU and demands the money which had been held "for" the child.
    The bank/CU may be very awkwardly placed, and be forced to pay the
    estate what it allowed to be withdrawn.
    
    	Naturally, a bank/CU does not want this kind of hassle.  So it
    tries to get customers to change their accounts under the guise that
    "this account was incorrectly identified by us with one of these
    descriptions: ITF, CUST, or TRUST."  Great wording, I love it!
    
    	The most unacceptable part (for me) was that the branch manager
    either did not know or would not answer my direct question as to
    whether the account was illegal.  The manager SHOULD have known, and
    SHOULD have answered my direct question.
    
    	And, of course, if my suspicions are true, I find it more than a
    little sleazy to attempt to change the account (a contract) when it's
    not illegally created.
    
    	Feel free to correct whatever things I may have guessed
    incorrectly...
    
    Dave Eklund
    

    	And the answer is:
    
    	No, the account is NOT illegal.
    
    	However, it IS "ambiguous".
    
    	I guess my last posting must have been strong enough that DCU
    really did want to talk to me after all!
    
    	I think that a fair summary of my conversation with the DCU
    representative (who shall go nameless here, although they did give
    their name) is that there are a number of accounts which were opened
    some time ago (mine sure were) with varying notation (such as ITF,
    CUST, etc.).  The current staff (including legal) wishes to bring
    a certain uniformity and clarity to these accounts.  Hence the
    mailing to those affected.  In my case, I have no doubt that the
    original intent and original paperwork were clear, but the account
    wording itself may want to be clarified by the CU.  There may have
    been little or no direction when the accounts were opened as to EXACTLY
    what the wording should have been.
    
    	I had a long chat with the DCU representative.  Pleasant, informed,
    polite.  I took the opportunity to dump a summary of my problems
    regarding the direction the CU has been taking.  She did not happen
    to agree with everything, but that's OK too.
    
    	I stressed that I thought the branch managers should have been
    given better information regarding the legalities and reasons why
    change was desired.  Apparently the phone call was in direct response
    to my last note, and NOT because of my previous conversation with the
    branch manager - I do not know why that never caused  a call to be
    placed - don't particularly care at this point.
    
    	Hey, as long as I don't need to fill out that crazy form, AND I get
    to give an earfull about what I think is wrong with the CU, I would
    consider this to be a great success!
    
    Dave Eklund
    
    PS Now that I think I know what is going on, I have to think that there
    just HAD to be a better way to make it easier by either not contacting the
    members at all OR to make it far less painful than filling out the huge
    form which was provided.   The approach left a lot to be desired.
    
    Dave E
    
    
    

    	Well I found out today that I don't like the way DCU handles
    	my kids' accounts now that I've transferred them to custodial
    	accounts.
    
    	Their individual names are not on the accounts anymore.  When
    	I get statements, each has only my name on it.  When the teller
    	at the window pulls up one of their accounts, they only see my
    	name.  Each still is assigned to one of my kids' social security
    	numbers, but no names are readily accessible.
    
    	I don't like this one bit.  I have 4 kids' accounts to keep 
    	track of.  The previous reply suggests that not changing to
    	an approved account setup is "ambiguous".  Well let me tell you
    	that the current strategy is terribly ambiguous for me now.
    
    	I'd like to suggest a change to DCU on this issue, but I really
    	don't know where to make that suggestion for it to be effective.