Conference 7.286::dcu

    
>    I understand that I'm an 'owner' of the credit union, but I'm also an
>    'owner' and an employee of DEC.  Is there a similar effort underway to
>    scrutinize the running of Digital Equipment Corp, and make
>    recomendations on how it should be run?  I'd like to see that company
>    run better, and return to profit, instead of all the fuss about the

    I too am an owner of both Digital and DCU. The difference is that I own
    a handful of shares out of hundreds of millions of shares of Digital
    while I own one of only 7x,xxx shares of DCU. So I have a bigger piece
    of DCU.

    An other difference is that I see real potential to effect change in
    the DCU. DCU board members take my calls and answer my mail messages.
    While I haven't tried, I suspect that Bob Palmer and other members of
    Digital's board of directors would not take my calls and would have
    my mail answered, if at all, by a secretary using a form letter. I
    can, and have, run for the board of DCU. I can't imagine coming up
    with what it would take to run an outsider campaign for Digital's
    board. 

    Red Auerback (of the Boston Celtics) has said "Pick fights that are
    big enough to be worth it and small enough to win." While I believe
    there are times and principals worth ignoring that guideline, in
    general I believe that's the way to go. Making DCU better is a fight
    that I believe can be won. Someone can make Digital better but I'm
    not sure I have the power to do it. If, however, someone starts an
    effort to change Digital for the better and shows me a plan that can
    work I will be happy to join in. I'd really rather Digital not go the
    Wang route in the 90s. (Where it seems to be heading now.)

    			Alfred 

    
    I hear you, Kevin. I've thought a lot about this for the past two
    years.
    
    For me, the difference comes down to this -- with apologies for the
    clich�, I feel truly empowered to affect change in DCU, and virtually
    powerless to affect change in DEC.
    
    Two years ago, an outraged DCU membership successfully rejected the
    covert operations and distancing attitude of an entire encumbant board,
    and seated four people they thought would make a difference. Well, only
    two of those people lived up to their promises, but certainly if we
    could unseat seven, we can rectify the mistake of two years ago in the
    coming election. I have an equal right with the other 70,000 (more or
    less) owners of DCU to voice my opinion on the future of the
    institution, and I know without a doubt that my voice will be counted
    in the final results. And I may not agree with a lot of things Lisa
    Ross and other board members do, but at least when I direct a comment
    or question her way, I get a response.
    
    Would that I could say as much for DEC. Yes, I own a few shares, but
    compared to the total DEC ownership I am like fly spit in the Pacific.
    And when was the last time We got to choose DEC directors, and through
    them a CEO? What kind of questions do we get to decide --  who will do the
    auditing next year? --  how much more our stake will be diluted by
    preferred stock? Over the years, I've sent a number of messages to Ken,
    Bob and various vice presidents and managers outside my direct line of
    report. expressing concerns and making suggestions that might possibly
    improve this company. In all that time, I've gotten exactly one relevant
    response (from Ron Glover).
    
    Can you imagine how differently this company would run if the employees
    were the sole owners, if we got to keep or replace the board every
    three years, if through our chosen directors we set the course for DEC?
    
    You're absolutely right, DCU is just a credit union. If it goes away,
    or if I can't influence its operations enough to make me happy, I can
    just go to WCU or somewhere else. In the grand scheme, its success is
    orders of magnitude less important to me than the success of DEC. If I
    look deep inside, I would probably find that my interest in improving DCU
    stems in some measure from my frustration in trying to improve DEC.
    But, there it is. For DEC, I can do nothing but be the best
    individual contributor I can be. For DCU, I can ask questions and
    expect reasonable answers, keep the relevant issues out in the open,
    encourage people to understand the issues and exercise their franchise, 
    and vote myself.
    

    
    Re: .0
    
    You ask a good question.  For me, it is two things.
    
    First, it's the personal outrage I feel at being treated with
    contempt by persons who, when you come right down to it, work
    for me.  We, the members, own the DCU.  There's something wrong
    when the tail tries to wag the dog.
    
    Second, it's the experience we all can share about what it feels
    like to deal with a company that treats its customers that way.
    I spent five years as a product manager during the early '80s.
    I got my ear chewed plenty by customers who felt that way from
    trying to do business with Digital.  In my mind, if enough of us
    who are trying to deal with the DCU can then use that experience
    to understand what our customers have been trying to tell us for
    ten years or more, there's a very good chance that will produce
    enough critical mass to effect some very needed changes in the
    way Digital operates.  
    
    fwiw,
    Steve
    

    Kevin,
    
    I'm not an advocate for the credit union, don't take sides on most of
    the issues here.  But I am concerned about the fallout from the credit
    union "squabble" on Digital Equipment Corporation.  Like many others, I
    joined back when the company was growing and the credit union was a
    "plus" for the employees.  When the economic down-turn hit, Mangone ran
    off with the money and left a mess that still hasn't been completely
    resolved.  It contributes negatively to employee morale, and I'm afraid
    that Company resources are taken up with credit union matters (I'm
    referring to the meeting that Mr. Glover held).  As an employee and
    stockholder of Digital I should be concerned about DCU, even if I were
    not a member.
    
    Mark

    
    RE: .4
    
    Mark, I think DCU's attitude and approach has much more to do with
    contributing to any negative morale much more than a healthy debate
    during an election on the direction of the credit union.  There is no
    "squabble".  There are simply different points of view being expressed
    just as they are expressed in thousands of other conferences on a daily
    basis.
    
      I've seen MUCH more negative morale expressed in the DIGITAL
    conference than here.  As Bill says, at least with DCU, members DO have
    a chance to positively affect the institution.  Empowerment is rarely,
    if ever, a way of negatively affecting morale.
    

>                         -< What's all the fuss about? >-

Kevin,

If for no other reason, note #777.0 is certainly good enough.

Ray

    
    A profitable credit union should be able to offer lower rates on
    loans and higher rates of interest on deposits than do banks.
    Ours used to, but doesn't any longer.  Instead, we get fees for
    some members based on their moving-target "relationship" with DCU.
    Meanwhile, the DCU employees enjoy bonuses for coming in over budget.
    I, too, feel that my vote can make a difference, can elect a BOD
    which truly represents the members and can turn this "bank" around.
    Meanwhile, I keep my "placemark" accounts open and put my money in
    other institutions with a better ROI.
    
    Lou
    

    re: .7
    
>    A profitable credit union should be able to offer lower rates on
>    loans and higher rates of interest on deposits than do banks.
    
    This is what I think of when I use the word "competitive".
    
>    Ours used to, but doesn't any longer.  Instead, we get fees for
>    some members based on their moving-target "relationship" with DCU.
    
    This, apparently, is what DCU considers "competitive".
    
    Anyone else get the feeling that the term "competitive" has been
    redefined at DCU to be a synonym for the term "mediocre"?
    
    Why is the DCU exerting so much energy to become so mediocre?  My local
    bank has free checking, plenty of convenient branches, evening and
    Saturday hours, numerous free ATMs, similar savings rates, etc.  
    I've never gotten a letter from my local bank stating that "I" made a 
    mistake when I opened accounts for my children a few _years_ ago.  
    
    When I checked out the local competition a couple of years back, I
    found other banks which compared favorably to DCU as well.
    
    And yet, it appears that certain groups within DCU are fighting hard to
    maintain the current trend of total mediocrity -- even to the point of
    driving away those with low savings balances.  And few ever seem to
    notice that these folks are precisely the key to raising the sacred
    ratio to 8.5+%.  These are the people -- those who have little funds on
    hand -- who are most likely to go for the loans that will counterbalance 
    the savings figures and raise the sacred ratio.  But, the goal of
    mediocrity has deemed them expendable, apparently.
    
    Sad.  Very sad.
    
    -- Russ

    'Competitive' is an interesting concept.

    I'm trying to imagine how long I would remain a member of
    'Costco' if their prices were just 'competitive'.

    I have to laugh everytime I hear an Ad that claims a store
    will match any price....if I'm in a store selling an item from less,
    I'll buy it from that store and be done, and not go back and try to get
    the original store to match their price.

    DCU has a selected, responsible, VERY valuable membership that
    consistantly performs at a default rate far below industry norms.
    Merely 'competitive' just doesn't cut it.
    bob

Bob,

This is an interesting aspect to the DCU pricing question, and one I hadn't
thought of before, but last year I went shopping for a booster-seat for my
daughter to ride in on the way to school.  I made a list of places I wanted to
shop, from South to North.  It was a nice day, so I stopped at all the choices
while breathing the mountain air and enjoying life.  Several places had what I
wanted and I noted the price.  BTW, all had the "We Will Not Be Undersold"
attitude.  

The day ended and I was in the northernmost place.  They were $10 more than a 
warehouse store six miles south.  Not minding another six-mile drive, I went to
the service counter at BeST (I'm not making this up) and said I saw the same
car seat at Sam's for $10 less.  The manager at BeST called Sam's to check the
price and immediately discounted the car seat $11.  I bought it right there
right then.

I think this sounds like a Ken Olsen parable, but the point is to be made about
banking services.  How many of us have run into the DCU's intransigence about
waiving the VISA fee or the Holiday Club fee?  The most we can ever ask for,
after self-deprecating begging and pleading is to get an ATM fee waved when the
DCU's ATMs are down.

Your note has helped me solidify my opinion.  I want the dEfCU to be the BeST.

BobW

>================================================================================
>Note 769.9                 What's all the fuss about?                     9 of 9
>EOS::ARMSTRONG                                       14 lines  13-MAR-1994 11:12
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    'Competitive' is an interesting concept.
>
>    I'm trying to imagine how long I would remain a member of
>    'Costco' if their prices were just 'competitive'.
>
>    I have to laugh everytime I hear an Ad that claims a store
>    will match any price....if I'm in a store selling an item from less,
>    I'll buy it from that store and be done, and not go back and try to get
>    the original store to match their price.
>
>    DCU has a selected, responsible, VERY valuable membership that
>    consistantly performs at a default rate far below industry norms.
>    Merely 'competitive' just doesn't cut it.
>    bob
>