Conference 7.286::dcu

    Does Digital subsidize these loans?  If not, then why are they limited
    to only Digital & Apple computers?
    
    Bob

    Mike, IMO the problem (and solution) does not lie in this statement
    
>	I called yesterday and they still only give out the loans for
>	DECpc's and for Apple computers via the EPP program.
    
    It lies in this statement.
    
>	Sorry, no (cheaper) Gateway systems or other vendors.
    
    In other words, if Digital PCs were offered to the employees at better
    prices then every DCU member would be eligible.  I WANTED to buy
    Digital when I purchased a PC last year, but the price/value was all in
    Gateway's favor.  I couldn't even get Digital to send me a catalog of
    their offerings.  Also, I hate having to explain to people way I don't
    have a Digital PC.  Guess I could have bought a Digital monitor and
    peeled of the Gateway emblem from the system, but I was floored by the
    NEC monitor. Sorry, I digress.
    
    There are also some touchy 'relationship' issues here IMO.  How would
    you feel if you were subsidizing an organization and then were in turn
    they were helping your competition?  I hope Digital reconsiders its
    position on its PC offering to employees, but I fear it is too late for
    a majority of buyers.  Maybe next purchase cycle we'll be able to buy
    Digital and have it be a good deal for both employee and employer.

    To heck with the monitor.
    
    Does anyone know if Alpha PCs are available through this program?
    
    -Glenn-

    re: .2
    
    Phil, I see you tip-toed right by my question.  Is Digital subsidizing
    the PC loan program?  Does DCU make signature loans?  If so, what is
    the rate?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob

    
    RE: .3
    
>                        -< Who wants Intel technology? >-
    
    Based on sales figures, I'd have to say millions of people... 8-)
    
>    To heck with the monitor.
    
    The 17" monitors are a decent deal IMO.  It used to be $800.  (Might be
    less now)
        
>    Does anyone know if Alpha PCs are available through this program?
    
    Absolutely!  It's A Digital PC right?  There is a dollar limit I
    believe but it should fall within the limits.
    
>    Phil, I see you tip-toed right by my question.  Is Digital subsidizing
>    the PC loan program?  Does DCU make signature loans?  If so, what is
>    the rate?
    
    Bob, notes collision.  Not trying to avoid the question.  NO, Digital
    is NOT directly subsidizing the PC loan program.  But if you were to ask if
    Digital is subsidizing DCU through its facilities, etc., the answer is
    clearly YES.  What might make good short term sense, might make very
    bad long term sense.
    
    You'd probably want to call the hotline for the specifics of the
    program.

>    Based on sales figures, I'd have to say millions of people... 8-)
    
    That's because our stealth marketing organization has done a wonderful
    job of telling absolutely no one about our superior technology. Plus
    they've priced the stuff way out of reach. If people knew what the
    Alpha can do with shrink-wrapped Windows-compatible softwarew they'd
    beat our doors down for the faster chip. But what do I know... :-) (And
    we digress.)
    
>    Absolutely!  It's A Digital PC right?  There is a dollar limit I
>    believe but it should fall within the limits.
    
    OK. So the other half of the question: what's the dollar limit.
    
    -Glenn-
    
                     

    
    RE: .6
    
    I believe the amount is $10,000 but please do call the DTN 223-6735
    (or 800-328-8797) to get all the very latest and greatest details. 
    Friendly and knowledgeable DCU customer service people are standing
    by to take your call.
    

	I'd rather stay out of the arguements over which architecture
	is better or not and stick with the problem at hand. I also want
	to stay away from the problems associated with EPP and the lack
	of decent prices and availability of DEC PC's. Right now, I cannot
	purchase a DECpc unless I pay full price and frankly, full price
	is too much in comparison to Gateway.

	What I'd like to see is the ability to get a Gateway or other
	major vendor PC with a DCU PC loan. How do I get someone
	"official" in the DCU to address this? I've even willing to pay
	%1 more in a loan. (after all, Gateway will give me a 2%
	discount!!)

	thanks,

							mike

    Well, the architecture stuff is *so* much more fun to talk about. Not
    to mention that if we can't sell our stuff then we won't be in this
    forum much longer to argue about it...
    
    I think the topic of why doesn't DEFCU make these loans for other
    vendors computers has been brought up before. I'm not sure the note of
    the note number but I think the general idea was that the loan program
    is for specific items. Personally, I have no problem with that. What's
    wrong with limiting what the loan program is for? Are we gonna add
    Gateway PCs, crystal vases, curtains? Where does it stop? And if it's
    for any vendors PC how exactly would you define a "PC configuration"?
    This could get messy...
    
    -Glenn-

�    Well, the architecture stuff is *so* much more fun to talk about. Not
�    to mention that if we can't sell our stuff then we won't be in this
�    forum much longer to argue about it...
    
    There are more appropiate conferences than this one in which to do so.

>	to stay away from the problems associated with EPP and the lack
>	of decent prices and availability of DEC PC's. Right now, I cannot
>	purchase a DECpc unless I pay full price and frankly, full price
>	is too much in comparison to Gateway.
    
    But is this a problem of the DCU computer loan program?  Frankly, DCU
    would be writing a lot more loans for these if pricing and
    availability were addressed.  Should you decide that Digital PCs are
    what you want, then this program is available.

>	What I'd like to see is the ability to get a Gateway or other
>	major vendor PC with a DCU PC loan. How do I get someone
>	"official" in the DCU to address this? I've even willing to pay
>	%1 more in a loan. (after all, Gateway will give me a 2%
>	discount!!)
    
    Computer loans are essentially unsecured loans.  Anybody can apply for
    an unsecured line of credit or loan for whatever reasons.  However, the
    rates and terms may be different than the computer loan program.  Or
    one could take out a home equity loan and buy a PC.  Another
    alternative is to borrow on your 401-K plan.
    

>    There are more appropiate conferences than this one in which to do so.
    
    Gee, really?
    
    -Glenn-

>    alternative is to borrow on your 401-K plan.
    
    While DEFCU doesn't handle 401-K plans I'll discuss this point anyhow!
    :-)
    
    Phil, are you sure you can borrow against a 401-K plan to buy a
    computer? I thought there were only three allowable reasons: purchasing
    a primary residence, medical hardship, and education bills. Or is this
    a restriction of DEC's SAVE plan only?
    
    -Glenn-
    

    
    RE: .14
    
    Not sure Glenn, I haven't checked them out in detail recently.  I was
    simply mentioning it as a possibility.  If it's not allowed then I
    guess that leaves the usual financing methods.  Or you could sell a
    hundred of Digital stock and buy a PC. 8-(  Enough, depressing
    discussion and back to the main topic.
    
    Buy a Digital PC (or Apple) and you can finance it with a DCU Computer
    Loan.
    

    Re .14
    
    You can borrow money against a 401-K plan to do anything. The
    restrictions you are talking about relate to withdrawing money from a
    401-K plan.
    
    Dave

    
    Re: .16
    
    Correct.  I am currently paying back my second SAVE loan.  I
    was never even asked why I wanted the money.  There is NO
    approval process.  You fill out the necessary paperwork so
    they can process your request and you get your loan which you
    pay back by payroll deduction.
    
    Steve
    

Oh yea, quite right.

-Glenn-

    
    I believe the rule for SAVE is if you withdraw more than you put it
    (i.e. that money you have made money on), then by some federal
    law/statute you must be doing one of those 3 purchases/options
    mentioned in an earlier note... If however you only take out the 
    money you put it, then there's no problem... I also remember reading
    some limit (percentage wise vs. the value of the account) that you can
    take out without problems/penalties, but can't remember the details.
    
    
    John
    

    
    Re: .19
    
    > I believe the rule for SAVE is if you withdraw more than you put it
    > (i.e. that money you have made money on), then by some federal
    > law/statute you must be doing one of those 3 purchases/options
    > mentioned in an earlier note... If however you only take out the 
    > money you put it, then there's no problem... I also remember reading
    > some limit (percentage wise vs. the value of the account) that you can
    > take out without problems/penalties, but can't remember the details.
    
    You cannot withdraw ANY money from SAVE except for one of the approved
    reasons and there is ALWAYS a penalty since all dollars in the SAVE
    program have not been previously taxed.  The penalty is 10% of what
    you withdraw AND you must pay income tax on the entire amount withdrawn
    (including the 10% that goes to the penalty!) at the rate that applies
    to you for the year in which you made the withdrawal.
    
    The intention is for SAVE to be a retirement program.  The rules are
    set up to discourage pre-retirement withdrawals.
    
    Steve
    
    

	Well, here is some news fresh from the EPP folks. It seems that
	the XL series and all systems in the DEC PC Direct catalog are
	now available at a 20% discount. I hope I can come up with
	a decent price comparison to a Gateway system.

						mike

From:	AIMHI::AIMHI::MRGATE::"A1::LEVESQUE.BRENDA" 27-JAN-1994 12:44:14.20
To:	AIMHI::AXEL::FOLEY
CC:	
Subj:	RE: Conflicting stories

From:	NAME: Brenda Levesque               
	FUNC: Direct Marketing                
	TEL:                                  <LEVESQUE.BRENDA AT A1 at AIMHI at MKO>
To:	NAME: FOLEY <FOLEY@AXEL@AIMHI@MRGATE@AIMHI@MKO>



 Hello Mike,

           I apologize for the conflict. The XL models are available and
 you can order them at 20% for EPP.  Please continue to use the notesfile
 that is the correct info.

 regards
 Brenda Levesque

    
    RE: .21
    
    Great news!  Please do let us know how the prices stack up against the
    competition since earlier notes may not be accurate now.
    

    
    >You cannot withdraw ANY money from SAVE except for one of the approved
    >reasons and there is ALWAYS a penalty since all dollars in the SAVE
    >program have not been previously taxed.  The penalty is 10% of what
    >you withdraw AND you must pay income tax on the entire amount withdrawn
    >(including the 10% that goes to the penalty!) at the rate that applies
    >to you for the year in which you made the withdrawal.
    >
    >The intention is for SAVE to be a retirement program.  The rules are
    >set up to discourage pre-retirement withdrawals.
    >
    >Steve
    
    Since you like contradicting virtually everything say  ;-)...  I looked
    it up in VTX.. .I got one of these SAVE loans in order to buy my house
    5 years ago... at the time I remember being told by the "loaner" that
    I was lucky to get as much as I did since they were changing the rules
    in how much you could take and the fact you couldn't take "earned"
    money.  Otherwise the money is yours, you can "borrow" it at any
    time...You cannot "withdraw" it without paying a penalty however...
    
    According the "benefits book" and VTX... Somewhere in the bowels of
    VTX BENEFITS_US is "save plan information":
    
    How to borrow money from your SAVE account
    
	
    As a SAVE Plan member, you can borrow from your SAVE account for any reason.
    Under current tax law, you don't pay taxes on the money you borrow, even
    though you are borrowing before-tax money. You must, however, commit to
    repaying the loan through your payroll deductions. If you are married, your
    spouse must provide written notarized consent to your request for a loan.
    
    You'll also want to plan ahead because, depending upon when your signed loan
    application and other documents are received, you may get your check as long
    as three months after your loan request is made.
    
    How to apply
    .
    .
    .
    
    Borrowing limitations
    
    You can have up to two loans at any one time. The minimum loan is
    $1,000. The maximum outstanding loan is 50% of the value of your SAVE 
    account balance up to $50,000 (minus your highest outstanding loan balance 
    under the Plan in the preceding 12 months).
    
    (Repayment restrictions may also limit the amount you borrow. See "How
    to repay your loan" below.)
                                
    

    
    > Since you like contradicting virtually everything say  ;-)...  
    
    For heaven's sakes don't be so touchy.  Your reply confused some
    points and had one piece of data in error.  You were mixing apples and
    oranges by using the term withdrawals and mixing in points that have to
    do with loans.  You also included in your reply within the context of
    withdrawals something about earned money vs. no penalty.  When you are
    talking a hardship withdrawal there is always a penalty.
    
    In my experience, the "loaners" are not a good source of information
    about the rules.  All they know with any confidence is the internal
    Digital process for taking out a loan or applying for a hardship
    withdrawal.  I would not count on them for information about anything
    else (and sometimes not that as I found out).
    
    Also the concept of "earned" money makes no sense in the context
    of withdrawals and/or loans.  All money in your account is earned
    income for tax purposes and *none* of it has been taxed so where
    the IRS is concerned it doesn't matter whether you put it in there
    or whether it was earned from dividends.  
    
    Steve
    

    
    Gee, sorry I brought it up!  It all sounds far to complex and
    troublesome.  Just get a quick, easy Computer Loan from DCU!  8-)
    

The NEAT thing about the SAVE LOAN is that the interest you pay is paid into
your SAVE account and becomes part of your assets. Beats paying it to a bank or
even the local relationship-based DCU.