| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 684.1 | Input requested | ASE003::GRANSEWICZ | | Mon Aug 23 1993 00:40 | 11 |
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Two questions:
1. Should all DCU volunteer positions be announced to ALL the
membership via the only communication vehicle the is sent to all
members, Network?
2. Should appointed positions be treated differently than elected
positions? Should election results be used when replacing a
director due to resignation?
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| 684.2 | | GSFSYS::MACDONALD | | Mon Aug 23 1993 09:51 | 22 |
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Re: .1
1. Should all DCU volunteer positions be announced to ALL the
membership via the only communication vehicle the is sent to all
members, Network?
YES.
2. Should appointed positions be treated differently than elected
positions? Should election results be used when replacing a
director due to resignation?
What you mean by the first question is not clear to me.
YES.
Steve
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| 684.3 | | CVG::THOMPSON | Radical Centralist | Mon Aug 23 1993 10:11 | 44 |
| It would seem to me that announcing all volunteer positions to the
full membership via Network would be a good idea. This would help
avoid the appearance of an "inside group."
>2. Should appointed positions be treated differently than elected
> positions?
I'm not sure what you mean. Should they be announced the same way?
Probably.
>Should election results be used when replacing a
> director due to resignation?
Always a question when appointing someone to fill a vacancy. My answer
would be that it should be a consideration but not the sole
consideration. Taking a DCU election for example. It may be that the
person who came in 3rd (just out of the running) is the peoples 3rd
choice and should get the job. On the other hand it may also be that
the person coming in 4th was viewed very similar to the person who
came in 1st and got fewer votes because of a marginal preference
difference. In that case the person who was 4th would be a logical
candidate. Of course this is impossible to determine with certainty.
So it falls to the Board to make a final consideration.
There is also the case of a person who did not run who would have been
a great candidate but who avoided a run to prevent drawing votes away
from someone they strongly supported. Again, impossible to tell how
the votes would have fallen.
In a regular election the members have the responsibility to pick the
person they feel is best. They can do that based on any criteria they
want. When the Board has to fill a spot they should use the criteria
of who is best able to serve the membership best. Things such as
experience that will minimize learning curve, understanding of
financial matters, a feel for the membership, and the like are all to
be considered.
One difference between appointed positions and elected ones is that in
the case of elected ones the members will have a chance to directly
ratify the decision. Either the person appointed to fill a vacancy
will be re-elected of she will not. And the term is for less than a
year before an election. Appointed positions can last much longer.
Alfred
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| 684.4 | | ASE003::GRANSEWICZ | | Tue Aug 24 1993 00:11 | 19 |
|
Appointed positions for committee assignments have a term associated
with them and are not endless. There is no election involved, but more
of an interviewing and selection process. Basically, everybody is an
unknown quantity, ie. equal.
Board positions, being elected positions, have winners and runners-up.
There is a definite ranking provided by the membership. I think you
can come up with a hundred reasons or excuses why people do or don't do
something but that shouldn't detract from voting tallies that resulted
from an election that was open to the entire membership. In fact, one
past appointee to the Board was the next in line according to the
election result.
I guess I wonder if it would be fair to a person that ran for election,
missed a Board seat by a few hundred votes, yet was passed over for
appointment to the Board. Putting myself in that person's shoes, I
would have serious doubts about the process.
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| 684.5 | | CVG::THOMPSON | Radical Centralist | Tue Aug 24 1993 08:48 | 17 |
| > Appointed positions for committee assignments have a term associated
> with them and are not endless.
True. My point was that if someone quits 6 months into a 3 year term
the Board can appoint someone to fill the whole term on an appointed
assignment. If the job is an elected one the Board only appoints the
person until the next election.
> I guess I wonder if it would be fair to a person that ran for election,
> missed a Board seat by a few hundred votes, yet was passed over for
> appointment to the Board. Putting myself in that person's shoes, I
> would have serious doubts about the process.
You're probably right. But it's easier for you because you did a ton
better than I did in the election. :-)
Alfred
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| 684.6 | Definitely use past election results | SMAUG::GARROD | From VMS -> NT, Unix a future page from history | Thu Aug 26 1993 21:32 | 25 |
|
Re:
> 2. Should appointed positions be treated differently than elected
> positions? Should election results be used when replacing a
> director due to resignation?
I feel that if a director resigns then the last election results should
definitely be used for determining who to replace them with.
I think the best way would be to go to each candidate that ran,
starting with the one with the highest number of votes that was
unsuccessful, and ask them if they want the vacant board position. Only
if NONE of the people than ran in the last position want the position
(highly unlikely since I presume they ran to get on the board) should
somebody else even be considered.
To do otherwise smacks to me of cronyism and an "elite" group trying to
get more "jobs for the boys/girls". I'd consider it a real insult to
the candidates that ran and the membership in general if the losing
candidates were overlooked in favour of some other person.
Why is it I'm being reminded more and more of the events of 1991 with
the DCU?
Dave
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| 684.7 | | ECADSR::SHERMAN | Steve ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326 MLO5-2/26a | Fri Aug 27 1993 11:31 | 3 |
| I agree. Well said, Dave.
Steve
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| 684.8 | | ASE003::GRANSEWICZ | | Sun Aug 29 1993 14:10 | 7 |
|
RE: .6
I agree 100% and wish more did! I brought this up when this process
was defined. But some believe this would be in violation of our
current Bylaws. I don't see the conflict myself.
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| 684.9 | | GSFSYS::MACDONALD | | Mon Aug 30 1993 13:09 | 8 |
|
Re: .8
What specifically do "some" believe would be the violation
and who are the "some"?
Steve
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| 684.10 | | ASE003::GRANSEWICZ | | Mon Aug 30 1993 13:16 | 17 |
|
RE: .9
>What specifically do "some" believe would be the violation
The Bylaws state that the Board chooses the replacement Director. They
do NOT state the process by which that happens so using past election
results may or may not be used, depending on the belief of each
individual Board member.
>and who are the "some"?
I can only speak for myself and don't want to state somebody elses
opinion on the matter. I suggest anybody who is interested in this
should send mail to each Director and determine where they stand on the
issue.
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| 684.11 | Yet an other reason you need to elect people you trust | CVG::THOMPSON | Radical Centralist | Mon Aug 30 1993 14:28 | 15 |
| Been thinking about this some more. Basically I believe that the ideal
situation is for a replacement, in an elected spot, should be as close
in philosophy as possible to the person they replace. Using the last
election results as a guide is *a* valid data point but I'd be
concerned about using it as the sole data point.
No system is going to be perfect. One time the next candidate may be
diametrically opposed to the person they replace. An other time it may
be a perfect fit. Sometimes you have a board you can trust, sometimes
you don't. There is no perfect system that will always protect the
members.
Alfred
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| 684.12 | | WLDBIL::KILGORE | Adiposilly challenged | Tue Aug 31 1993 14:17 | 37 |
|
.1> 1. Should all DCU volunteer positions be announced to ALL the
.1> membership via the only communication vehicle the is sent to all
.1> members, Network?
Yes.
.1> 2. Should appointed positions be treated differently than elected
.1> positions? Should election results be used when replacing a
.1> director due to resignation?
Yes and Yes.
Appointments are always made by some small group using some agreed
guidelines, so it is reasonable for the same small group to use the
same guidelines to appoint a replacement.
Elections reflect the wishes of the entire body, and replacement
of elected positions should do the same. The only foolproof way to do
this would be to hold a special election; assuming that this is
an unacceptably burdensome approach, the best alternative is to dip
back into the wishes expressed in the last election, by selecting
runners-up in order of vote count. It would seem questionable to
ignore the vote count and select someone arbitrarily from the pool of
candidates, and unacceptable to circumvent the nominating and voting
process completely by appointing someone from outside the candidate pool.
.9> The Bylaws state that the Board chooses the replacement Director. They
.9> do NOT state the process by which that happens so using past election
.9> results may or may not be used, depending on the belief of each
.9> individual Board member.
So one or more board members believe that, given a clean slate with
regard to the selection process, it would somehow be illegel to define
that process as choosing the first free runner-up? I would love to
understand the reasoning...
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| 684.13 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Sep 02 1993 13:39 | 10 |
| I believe that elected officials should be appointed by the Board. The
person appointed would serve until the next regular election,
regardless of how long was left in the term of the person being
replaced. Using previous election results seems a fair criteria for
selecting the replacement.
I believe that vacancies of positions appointed by the BoD should be
publicized as widely as possible to avoid the appearance of cronyism.
That's why in the past I've questioned only posting such announcements
in this notesfile.
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