Conference 7.286::dcu

I think that (or at least HOPE that) this wonderful storm has had some effect
on my attempts at using my Easy Cash 24 Card on Sunday.  I tried 4 different
banks' ATMs all accepting Cirrus here in CXO, and ALL refused any transactions
with my card.

Errors varied ...

	"Unable to complete -- Please try later"
	"Transaction Refused -- See your bank"
	"Unable to process -- Request cancelled"

I certainly got a few nasty looks as I grumbled at the ATM with these
rejection slips.  The obvious answer (to the onlookers) was that I was
overdrawn!

My wife, in Canada, once tried to use another bank's ATM card in a store
payment machine and it refused to work, and the instant reaction of the
store keeper was that she was trying to pull a fast one.  Fortunately,
there was a proper ATM 150' away in a milk store and she went over there
got some money and came back.  She demanded an apology from the manager
as she paid for the goods .. and got it!

The bottom line is that the technology is not perfect and shopkeepers
should recognize that!

Stuart

    If it was in fact computer/network problems that caused the problem, it
    was most likely not the DCU system that produced the error message. 
    How could it, if the system was not reachable?  Blame the chechout
    person, he or she was closer! (just kidding)

    In the Dallas paper yesterday there was a front page article detailing
    the problems EDS has had during the storm last week in keeping up the
    ATM network that they run.  I knew that they controlled most of the ATMs
    here in Dallas, but the article indicated that EDS owns 3 different ATM
    networks and run 7 others worldwide.

    These networks are controlled out of a switching center in NJ.  It
    seems that the building that they are in had a portion of the roof
    collapse due to snow.  When the went to implement their backup plan,
    the facility they were to use was occupied with others due to the World 
    Trade Center bombing.  They then had to scramble to find alternative sites. 
    The article indicated that everything would be 100% by this weekend.

    Try you grocer again!

Usually in these transactions there are 3 connections that must be made.
1) ATM to host institution
2) Host to CIRRUS/PLUS network
3) CIRRUS/HOST to DCU

Along the way there may be routers, especially in the CIRRUS/PLUS network.  
If the ATM's for different institutions in the smae geographical area don't 
get you acces then it is a waste of time trying others as the problem lies 
with either CIRRUS/PLUS or the DCU and you generally have to wait until the 
next buisness day for the problem to be resolved.  It would be nice if the 
DCU would let us know a 24x7 phone number to report suspected CIRRUS/PLUS 
problems but to my knowledge none exist.

Current ATM support by the ATM networks and the institutions is severly 
lacking.  When I worked in NYC I could count on not getting ATM service at 
least 6 times a month.

Jilly

    I don't mind it when my grocer calls me a deadbeat.  It's when they call 
    up my card carrier and have me talk with them on the phone.  Like I
    don't talk to these people enough already!  (I talk to them all the time,
    'cause they usually call around dinner time.)  Then, my grocer takes out 
    these big scissors and cuts up my card in front of everybody.  (Good
    thing I always keep duplicates of my cards ...)  And, then they take 
    out this little catalog thing and mark out my card number with a big magic 
    marker.  That wouldn't be so bad, but do they really have to shout "Bingo" 
    when they get five in a row?  And, then they won't take my personal check.  
    So they have to redeposit it every once in a while.  So what?  If they
    really don't like having to redeposit, why don't they just wait to deposit 
    my checks on the dates I post-date them with?  Can't they read? 
    Besides, my bank always calls when I run out of money.  And, I haven't
    run out of checks yet, so what's the problem?  Oh, gotta run.  I'm
    triple parked in the fire zone with my blinkers on ...
    
    Steve  ;^)

         Thanks, Steve:
    In times like these, when DEC people need all of the love and
    understanding they can beg, borrow or steal, they often must
    settle for some gut-wrenching, heartfelt humor. Yours is especially
    funny. Thanks again.
         Now, about that problem.....
    
                                                  -Bob-

    Hey, anytime!  :)  Wait ... you thought I was kidding? ;^)
    
    Steve

    
    Steve, so you're the guy I always get caught behind at the grocery
    store.  Glad to see you're out on bail...   8-)
    
    On the tad more serious side, I think most people who use this
    technology know it is far from perfect and that the majority of the
    problems aren't at the cardholder end of the chain.  Especially when
    the last X number of cards have all been rejected as would have been
    the case in this type of outage.  But there maybe be some who haven't
    the slightest idea of all the magic that must occur before they get
    their approval and therefore think you are the culprit when those
    computers state the "truth".  Not enough time in the world to educate
    them so don't take it personally.  Their view of reality is probably
    that computers don't lie and don't make mistakes.
    
    But it's the best we have at this point.  I don't know if I could
    re-adapt to the pre-ATM/EFT days.
    

         Excellent, really good point. 
    
         Help me, I honestly cant recall what it was like before the
    Age of ATM ? I fear I have become both senile and decrepit (sp).
    But, were there long lines at the teller windows ? Was time "wasted".
    I'm afraid that I've grown soooooo accustomed to this plastic world
    that I have to struggle to remember....... what was it like ? I can't
    recall !

You cannot recall pre-ATM days?  Go to SPAG'S and stand in one of the
cash-only lines.  It works just fine for any purchase I've ever made
there.  Except for once when I didn't have enough cash on me...

	Enjoy,
	Larry

PS -- For the non-cognescenti, SPAG'S is a store in Shrewsbury MA that
used to take only cash, and now accepts credit cards.  It sells almost
anything that can be sold in high volume, including clothes, hardware,
groceries, sporting goods, whatever.  

>    I'm afraid that I've grown soooooo accustomed to this plastic world
>    that I have to struggle to remember.......

Hmm.  Well just don't ever let them think you're dead when you're not.

Worms like that shouldn't even be inflicted on your worst enemy (not that its
happened to me, but I saw this news show once....very scary).

�You cannot recall pre-ATM days?  Go to SPAG'S and stand in one of the
�cash-only lines.  
    
    But Larry, there is an ATM next door so you can use the cash only line.

    It was nice in those days. You went to the line of your favorite teller
    and waited, even if other tellers were free. You developed a
    relationship with the teller who sometimes could intervene on your
    behalf with as bank officer if you needed a special service or loan.
    Sometimes, the teller's word was sufficient for very small loans, like
    a few dollars for a few hours or days (I am referring to several such
    loans in my own experience in a large suburb of a large metro area, not
    a small remote area). Banking was a social relationship, not
    necessarily a business chore that was done reluctantly.
    
    Do others remember the transition period in which bank employees stood
    at the ATM, offering to demonstrate how to use them? I remember the
    hordes of people ignoring the hawkers and staring with contempt at
    those machines. Or, remember the incentives
    to try to use the ATM? I got a lot of coupons for free ice cream cones
    that way. You also had to fill out a separate application form to use
    the ATM.
    
    My father-in-law refused to use the machines for years. As a salesman,
    he frequently had to plan his trips several days in advance so he could
    end his day locally, to be near the bank from which he withdrew a large
    sum for the following day's distant trip. Once he realized he could be
    anywhere in the state and use the ATM, his travelling strategy changed.
    He changed to the ATM after he got several coupons for ice cream cones
    to give to my kids.
    
    When my kids were younger, they thought whenever anyone needed money,
    you just go to the machine and get some. I think they still think that
    way!
    
    

    I used to work in a bank in Missouri around 1983 or so.  Back then,
    ATMs were just catching on.  We anticipated that "someday" you would be
    able to use an ATM for your bank not just at the two machines in our
    city, but anywhere in the nation.  My job?  Late at night I worked a
    machine that sorted checks.  I also carried a beeper for extra money as
    part of the ATM maintenance crew.  Those were the good old days ...
    Now, ATMs are all over the city and I can access DCU from Missouri.
    
    I don't write as many checks as I used to.  I basically just use them
    to pay bills by mail.  I think that's the main difference.  I was there 
    to be part of the changeover from sorting checks by check number to 
    sorting them by account number only.  The banking industry at that time 
    was moving quickly to use more and more computers for transaction 
    processing.  At they time I was there, they literally had a room full 
    of little old ladies tabulating the checks I sorted each morning.  I 
    seem to recall that they actually had rows and rows of printing adding 
    machines that they used when I first started.  Then they went to IBM
    terminals.  I observed that while I was there (about a year) the amount 
    of personnel required to process transactions went down dramatically.  
    I expect that by now it's almost all done by computers.
    
    Steve

>>    But Larry, there is an ATM next door so you can use the cash only line.

I don't use it.  It isn't the one for *my* bank (none of them are) or for
the DCU, and I won't pay to get money from my account unless I am desperate.

I get my money from the friendly tellers at my local DCU branch.  It's true
that I had a different attitude when I used BayBank and had free use of cash 
machines all over eastern Mass.  But when I decided to dump BayBank, I
found that I really don't need ATMs very often -- they are nice for travel
and for that occasional emergency, but I don't make regular use of them.

I guess you can call me a post-ATM consumer.  

	Enjoy,
	Larry

PS:  So how would using the ATM next to SPAG'S give one a reminder of
pre-ATM days, anyway?  

    
    Ah yes, the good ol' days of shopping at Spag's before ATM's and
    acceptance of credit cards.  Getting to the register and hoping you
    hadn't mis-counted your purchases and had enough cash to pay for all
    those goodies.  The excitement is gone... ;-)

Slightly off subject

My husband was at Spag's a few days ago, paying by credit card, since it was
an unscheduled stop.  He asked the cashier if there was much change since they
started accepting Visa and Master Card.  She told him that there is a _big_
change; people are buying more, because they don't have to worry about having
the right amount of cash when they get to the register.  But the scary thing,
she said, is how many people have to go through 3 or 4 of their credit cards
before they find one that has enough credit to charge their purchases!

Maybe the cash system is better after all...

Elaine

�PS:  So how would using the ATM next to SPAG'S give one a reminder of
�pre-ATM days, anyway?  
    
    That was my point.  You can't get a reminder of pre-ATM days at Spag's
    anymore.

    Spag's changed because of competition.  There are now 4 members-only
    warehouses in the area (PACE opens the 5th one this Friday).

    Spag's takes credit cards!!!
    
    Next you'll be telling me they provide sacks, too!
    
    Marie 
       (who still remembers her first trip to Spag's. I had enough
        money, but not enough hands.)

�    Next you'll be telling me they provide sacks, too!
    
    No, but they are open on Sunday.