Conference 7.286::dcu

    Rep to <<< Note 421.0 by STAR::CANTOR "Have pun, will babble." >>>

>        You can avoid paying annual VISA fees by maintaining at least 
>        $6,000 in outstanding DCU loan balances, or $3,500 or more in 
>        total savings balances for the year.  Even if you don't have 

    I checked  with  the  NIO  branch  personnel  and it is $3,500 in total
    savings, which include  CD's,  IRA's  etc.  For once my IRA with DCU is
    giving me some other benefit that  just saving for retirement, since in
    a few more payments my wife car  loan  won't help ;^), and I won't have
    to worry about the total yearly purchases anymore.
    
    Looks like Chuck did some real evaluation of  the  products DCU has and
    is really turning things around for the better. 
    
    Claude

    Visa card rate here in St. Louis, at Commerce bank is 13.5 and no anual
    fee. Come on DCU do not do us any favors.
    
    Dave
    

    As soon as we can get my wife's silver mastercard upgraded to a gold
    one, (may take a while as she recently changed jobs), DCU will be
    getting theirs back in the mail.  Like .2, the other CU offers a lower
    interest rate and no annual fee and a 25-day grace period.
    
    Bob

    15.5 % X $6000.00 = $930.00

    	So if I give DCU $930.00 I can save $25.00.
    This is "LIKE MY VACUUM CLEANER".

    	I wonder if my mortgage can cover the $6000.00

IT'S ALMOST UNBELIEVABLE! I just called DCU and the woman said that a
mortgage with DCU WILL cover the $6000 limit. I never thought I would see
the day.

    I just sent mine back in several pieces today... along with a note
    explaining how my ATT Gold (.9% higher) would have to carry quite
    a monthly balance to make up the $15 (actually $30 if comparing
    Gold to Gold).  The ATT Visa doesn't require $3500 of my money
    as a minimum balance, and yet manages to offer more benefits.
    And I also have an MBNA card with no annual fee and a $11,500
    credit limit, albeit slightly higher rate, plus Discover.
    Interestingly, I wouldn't have been charged the DCU annual fee
    until next January since I made more than $3k purchases last year
    (how nice of them to continue to honor that as an "Extra Bonus for
    1991 Visa Cardholders"), but thought I'd rub their nose in it now.
    -kb
    
    P.S. Just for kicks, I did offer them the chance to reissue another
    one and permanently waive the annual fee, with no balance requirements,
    and I would resume using it.

    In the letter from Chuck Cockburn in the latest "Network" he said that
    the $6000 figure was for total loans with DCU.  This did seem to
    conflict with the information in the article on the VISA changes.  Glad
    to hear they are taking the more generous approach.  I wouldn't want to
    be carrying a $6000 balance on any charge card just to save a yearly
    fee.

    
    RE: .5
    
    >IT'S ALMOST UNBELIEVABLE! I just called DCU and the woman said that a
    >mortgage with DCU WILL cover the $6000 limit. I never thought I would
    >see the day.
    
    I wonder what happens when DCU sells the mortgage though?  I believe
    they are doing that to all the mortgages they are writing right now. 
    Guess the older, higher rate mortgages that DCU is keeping will more
    than cover the annual fee for members.
    
    As an aside, I would love to see an income statement done on the Visa
    card program alone.  How profitable is this program?  Is all this worry
    and bother with annual fees and their waiving worth that much money 
    to DCU?  What is the breakeven point for somebody holding a card that
    pays the balance every month?  I believe DCU makes money via the
    interest charges, annual fees and a certain percentage on the amount
    charged.  I believe their expenses would be personnel, card costs,
    administration and losses.  I can't believe with all of the
    institutions offering credit cards that this is a losing proposition. 
    Probably more risky these days though...
    
    Anybody know if DCU is still issuing cards with a 1 year life span?
    

	My last DCU VISA expiration date was 12/91.

	My new DCU VISA expiration date is 12/92.

	MM

    
    A DCU member who wishes to remain anonymous sent this to me and has
    granted permission for it to be posted in this conference.  Names and 
    personal information have been removed.
    
    
    


01/22/92


To whom it may concern:

When I first obtained my DCU Visa card, it was free.  The following year I 
discovered, without being notified, DCU billed me $10.00 fee for its use.
I was shocked, noted the expiration date, and decided the following year I 
would cancel it prior to being billed.  I never did, however, and the cost 
is now $15.00.

Last night I received your Network flyer along with literature touting
SPECIAL VISA ANNOUNCEMENT.  I was appalled to learn that unless I 
maintained $6,000.00 in outstanding DCU loan balances, or kept a minimum
of $3,500.00 in total savings balances, etc., etc., the annual $15.00
annual fee would not be waived. THIS IS A BETTER DEAL?

My idea of a better deal would be not to be charged the annual fee at all.
Why should I have to be in debt, and that's what your deal actually is, to 
take advantage of your SPECIAL DEAL, in order to not be charged an annual 
fee for using YOUR card. 

I have 21 credit cards in my possession at this very minute, NOT including
yours.  Of those 21 cards 3 are Visa cards with an annual fee of only
$10.00, none of which require me to have outstanding loan balances or 
specific savings balances.  I also have a DISCOVER card.  You are NOT
competitive with any of them.

Also in last nights mail I received a flyer from Triple AAA telling me
they are so thankful for doing business with me as a member, they are
offering me their "PRE-APPROVED NO FEE AAA/MASTERCARD WITH NO ANNUAL FEE,
NOT NOW, NOT LATER, NOT EVER" as long as I remain a member.

The application specifically states "Unless I have checked the NO box
I elect to have my AAA Master Membership dues billed to my AAA/Mastercard
for which I will receive 500 bonus points."  Please note they gave me an
option.  I have the right to elect how I want to pay my dues.  THEY WANT
ME AS A CUSTOMER!!  What option does DCU Visa offer??

I spoke with xxxxxx, your representative by phone this morning, and told 
her all of the above.  She listened patiently, respectfully, advised me DCU 
had taken many surveys which led them down this path.  That is NOT enough.
Neither she nor her superiors have the power to waive my annual fee, after 
all, check my credit standing with you.  You should value people in my
category and make similar offers like Triple AAA.  

I cut my nnnn nnnn nnnn nnnn DCU Visa card in half and delivered it to your 
site at xxxxx, where the tellers listened gratiously, and gave me the 
necessary form to be filled out. 

I am bringing the form up to them along with a copy of the above.

Very truly yours,


<name & badge removed>

Kind of a sad commentary on our credit union that not only does a member have
a major complaint who was politely told that members wanted it (based on
surveys), but that he/she feels uncomfortable about revealing
their name (I assume they complained anonymously to DCU too). What is
wrong with this picture?

    Hmmm, another one [the same day as I returned mine in .6] comes
    back to PK05 in bits 'n pieces.  I wonder what scissoring technique
    .10 used... the lengthwise cut down the numbers, the basic vertical
    cut in half, or one of the more challenging shredder-like
    methodologies.  ;-) _kb
    

The surveys said that?!??!!  That people would rather
give DCU biggo buckos in interest to avoid VISA fees
than spending x$s a year on the card?  I'd rather spend
x$s a year on the card.

Not suprised anymore
Chad

>Why should I have to be in debt, and that's what your deal actually is, 

	In fairness, not really. The option of having $3,500 in total
	savings balances requires no debt.


					Tom_K

    
    Don't jump to the conclusion that members want this.  Note .10
    just said that DCU had done surveys, it didn't say who was
    surveyed.  Could be that they did some survey of competing VISA
    cards and determined that they could get away with this.  I still
    see evidence of the banking rather than credit union attitude.
    
    Steve
    

    I just got a pre-approved application form for the Discover card in the
    mail.  They may not be charging an annual fee, but their interest rates
    are much higher than DCU's Visa.  AAA probably has the benefit of a
    much larger member base which allows them to offer a no-fee card. 
    DCU's Visa may not be the absolute best, but from what I've seen taking
    into account annual fees and finance charge they are competitive.

    RE: .11
    
>Kind of a sad commentary on our credit union that not only does a member have
>a major complaint who was politely told that members wanted it (based on
>surveys), but that he/she feels uncomfortable about revealing
>their name (I assume they complained anonymously to DCU too). What is
>wrong with this picture?

    The author included the letter with the cut credit card.  It was
    signed.

	21 credit cards!  I'd be sending back any that weren't fee-free.  I
don't have a DCU Visa, but I do have a fee-free $7,500 Visa Gold card (don't 
care what the interest rate is, I pay mine off.) and the $3k one that I do pay
an annual fee, that I keep because it has my picture on the back. (It's my
main card.)  Until I bought a house, I never found a need for more than the
one card. The couple of other cards I have are no-fee store cards like 
Lechmere and Jordan Marsh.

	I get at least 1 offer a month for a new no-fee card. (Then there are
the ones like the NorthWest card which accumualtes frequent flyer miles and
has an $80 a year fee!)

							--Doug

    Is there some mis-communication here?
    
    As I understand it, the $6,000 for "free" VISA, was in *transaction*
    dollars. Not in carried-over balances.
    
    For example, If I were to buy a car, and put my down-payment of $6000
    on the VISA, and then ***immediately*** pay it when the bill came due,
    I would thereby get my VISA for free that year.

    So ***no interest*** would have been paid to the DCU by me.

    I seem to hear people in previous notes complaining that they will be
    paying a large amount of interest due to this "feature." But this is
    not how I see it.
    
    My impression is that some communication from the DCU was not
    understood correctly. (not much new there...)
    
    Please correct me if you have proof that my information is incorrect.
    
    Ben
    
    

	FWIW: Last year I was offered a MBNA card through the IEEE, no fee 
	the first year. I took it, and have been using it since. Yesterday, 
	looking at my statement, I found a $27 charge for the next year.
	I called their toll free number (around 10PM EST), told them
	I didn't do yearly fee credit cards, and the customer service
	rep immediately offered to waive the fee. I think the interest
	rate is 16.9, but since I always pay off my charges each month,
	that isn't a factor for me.

					Tom_K

    re: .19
    
    I believe that this is one of the changes.  In the past, you could
    avoid a fee by using your card to purchase $nnnn.  No longer.

    
    AT&T announced that they are lowering the rate on their Visa to 15.5%,
    effective April 1st (no joke).  This exactly matches the DCU Visa rate,
    but without the rediculous annual fee/balance requirements, and the
    AT&T card offers calling discounts, 24 hour customer service, etc.
    
    Just when things couldn't get worse for the DCU, they do.  kb

    VISA granted all cardholders a 10% credit in its Dining & Diversions
    program for purchases made between June 1 and August 31, 1995.

    If you spend $1,000 within this time period, then you have "100
    credits" accumulated with VISA.  VISA has been keeping track of your
    spending sprees and categories so you don't have to dig up old
    statements to find out how much you've spent.  But, here's what you
    have to do to claim your credits!

    Since VISA has 85 million cardholders, they won't be mailing out
    certificates to everyone.  The only way to receive your earned credits
    (which converts to $$ amounts toward purchases at Red Lobster
    Restaurants, Mariott Hotels, rent-a-car agencies, Southwest Airlines,
    etc.) is to call VISA!  It's legitimate and there're no catches as far
    as i could tell.

    VISA cardholders may claim their certificates by mail or phone between
    September 15 and November 15, 1995.  The certificates are valid between
    October 1, 1995 and March 31, 1996.

    Cardholders claiming by mail earn an EXTRA 10 credits.  Send your name,
    address, account number(s), and expiration date(s) to

	VISA Reward Service Center
	P.O. Box 1727
	Minneapolis, MN 55440

    Dial 1-800-520-VISA (or 1-800-520-8472) and press <4> to claim through
    a phone representative.  You can also press <3> to find out how many
    credits you earned.

    Happy hunting...

    --svb

    Does this pertain to cash advance sprees too ?
    
    Bill

    Why don't you dial 1-800-520-VISA (or 1-800-520-8472) and press <3> to
    find out whether you've accumulated enough credits to bother with it?
    
    --svb

	I got over 225 credits for my 4 Visa cards. (2 "normal", 1
	Corporate and even my DCU Check Card/Visa!)

	I should get something in 3-5 weeks. 
					
							mike

    So, you get 1 credit for $10 ... but how much is a credit worth ?
    
    Has anyone applied for and used these credits ???
    
    Stuart

I applied for them and just got it in the mail yesterday.  It seems pretty
useless to me.  Or at least nothing special.

Example:  $50 off the full coach fare on SW Airlines.  Yeah, like anyone really
every pays full coach, and like any other fare is not better than $50 less.

Five credits buys you a free appetizer if you get a meal at "The 99", and a free
dessert if you buy a meal at "The Red Lobster".  (Or maybe the reverse...similar
anyway...one of them requires 2 meals, actually).  Most of the dining things are
like that.  The Avis things are pretty standard: upgrade the car 1 class for 5
credits.  Etc etc.  Ho hum.

Burns