Conference 7.286::dcu

    
    
    This policy, dose it cover Biggies from DEC also? If so I AM
    SCREWED. Closing on the house I'll need all my savings and a
    large check from DEC that has to be converted into a cashiers'
    check. Sounds like I got a problem.......
    
    Best of luck with the "bounce" fees.
    
    rth

Sounds like this issue affects enough people that it'd be good if you inform
the new BoD directly after the election. DCU shouldn't be able to afford to
alienate members like this.

In my case, last week, I presented a check for deposit into my DCU account
from another DCU account for $400 or so. They said a 2-day hold. 2 DAYS! From
DCU to DCU? What gives. They hemmed and hawed a bit and then removed the hold.
Not very good for business. The new BoD has a lot of cleaning up to do should
they choose to do it.

    I have run into this problem on several occasions (at other banks, not
    DCU), and one very labor intensive way around it is to go to the bank
    on which the check you wish to deposit is drawn, cash the check, hand
    carry the $2-5000 in currency to the bank at which you wish to have the
    money deposited, and make a cash deposit.  I haven't run across a bank
    that will hold a cash deposit longer than next business day.
    
    Eric

The scenario continues:

Thursday 1/16	The second of the two tuition checks was
		presented to DCU last night.

		It will be paid according to my phone
		conversation with DCU this morning. 

It seems that after five days, the first $5,000 is released so
my tuition check will be paid today. 

Several new technologies are surfacing:

Fact:

	DCU stated "We need to protect ourself against the check
	being returned so we put the seven business day hold
	on the check" (sic.) 

Fact:

	DCU stated "After five days, $5,000 is released" (sic.)
	There is no 'business' after the 'five' mentioned in the
	quote above. Also, only a portion ($5,000) is released.
	It is now three business days (Mon, Tue, and Wed) after
	the original deposit, or five calendar days, however they
	wish to make the call. 

Fact:

	I still have funds on hold; more than a few nickels I 
	might add.


New Technology:

	DCU is protecting themselves against a partial return of
	a check! How a *portion* of a check would be returned
	(dishonored) beats the devil out of me. I wonder which
	portion it might be - - upper left hand corner perhaps. 


			I donna know .....


I sure hope the new BoD adds a new element to the thinking at 
PK5, called 

		COMMON SENSE !


				Charlie . . .
    

    Actually, DCU has "loosened up" a bit since the original flap in the
    wake of the federal Funds Availability Act and Regulation "R", that
    implemented it.
    
    $5000 is the "magic number" here.  Non-local checks UNDER that amount
    MUST be available within 5 working days UNLESS the institution has
    reason to suspect that they'll bounce.  Local checks have a 3 working
    day limit.  DCU stays fairly close to the limits here; BayBank, for
    example, makes the first $5000 available the NEXT DAY, regardless of
    where the check is from (within the US).  The only good news is that
    DCU has gotten a bit more generous with the amounts/types of deposits
    that it puts holds on in the first place.
    
    DCU *SHOULD* rethink this policy.  If NOTHING else, they should only
    hold deposits as long as they ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO.  That means a large
    check (over $5000) should be freed AS SOON AS IT CLEARS, but not later
    than 7 working days from deposit.        

�    This policy, dose it cover Biggies from DEC also? If so I AM
�    SCREWED. Closing on the house I'll need all my savings and a
�    large check from DEC that has to be converted into a cashiers'
�    check. Sounds like I got a problem.......
    
    According to DCU's brochure on DCU's Funds Availability, Digital
    Equipment Corp. checks become available the first day.  Nonlocal
    business checks over $2000 will be available on the 5th business day
    after the date of the deposit.  Longer delays may occur if you deposit
    more than $5000 in one day.
    
    According to this brochure, generally your funds will be available no
    later than the *seventh* business day after the day of your deposit. 
    11 days seems to go against their written policy.  The copy of the
    policy I have is effective Nov. 1, 1989 so perhaps they've rewritten
    it.  I'm pretty sure I picked this up around the time of the Special
    Meeting so if changes have been made they're pretty recent.

�In my case, last week, I presented a check for deposit into my DCU account
�from another DCU account for $400 or so. They said a 2-day hold. 
    
    This appears to be in violation of the policy that went into effect on
    Nov. 1, 1989.  According to the brochure describing this policy, checks
    drawn on DCU are available on the day of deposit.  There is no mention
    of monetary limits.

    
    I believe the whole policy of check holds needs a hard look. 
    Particularly since they appear to have implemented the maximum holds
    allowed.  If there is factual data showing such long holds are
    justified, then so be it.  Ideally, maximum holds should be applied
    where needed based on past dealings with individual members.
    
    As a side note, I know of one place that puts a 1 day hold on CASH
    deposits.  I find this particularly bizarre.  What could possibly
    justify a hold on cash?

    re: -.1  
    
    Um ... the cash could be counterfeit?
    
    Steve  ;^)

    
    RE: .9
    
    Not sure if your kidding or not...
    
    Wouldn't counterfeit bills need to be detected immediately?  After
    that they get tossed in with everybody elses counterfeit bills and lose
    their identity... 8-)
    

    
    	Re: .6
    
    	Seven business days can equal eleven "real" days if the deposit is
    made on a Friday.  Two weekends are caught before the seven business
    days have gone by.
    
    	"I don't defend 'em, I just explain 'em."
    
    							-craig

    	Play their games!
    
    	If you make a payment on a loan by check, there is usually no
    	hold on the check up to the amount of the loan.
    
    	So go to an ATM, transfer your entire credit line out of your
    	CRT account into your checking account.
    
    	Go to a teller and deposit the check as payment on the loan.
    	In the $5000 example, if you had a $2500 CRT limit, only
    	$2500 of the check would have been held.  The other $2500
    	is available IMMEDIATELY!
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    On placing a hold on a *cash* deposit ...
    
    Had that happen to me with one bank a while ago. Cash was held for one
    full business day. 
    
    Turned out the computer was updated overnight - - took that long for
    the computer to catch up to the real world.
    
    As an earlier noter said, "I don't defend 'em, just explain 'em".
    
    				Charlie . . . 

    
>    Turned out the computer was updated overnight - - took that long for
>    the computer to catch up to the real world.
    
    Sounds like it takes them a while to enter all the info, make the cards
    and run their nightly batch job... ;-)  Maybe it's time to look for a
    bank that has systems a bit more up-to-date.  Hard to believe a bank
    with such systems can compete in the '90s.  So I guess the bottom line
    is the customer pays for the banks inability to process cash transactions
    on a timely due to their poor systems.

    
    	Re: .14
    
    	No, I think the problem / issue / whatever is more fundamental than
    just "poor systems".  The whole banking industry is heavily based on a
    nightly cycle -- nightly interest calculations, nightly intra-bank
    adjustments, nightly comparisons between the bank's cash reserve
    positions against the levels mandated by the Feds, nightly intra-bank
    loans to adjust those cash reserve positions, etc., etc.  Given the
    flurry of night-time bookkeeping chores that go on, it doesn't suprise
    me that the official postings of deposits occurs also at night.
    
    	I'm still not defending them, though, since it does seem silly that
    _cash_ can't even be accessed until the next day...
    
    							-craig

    
    Yeah, you're probably right.  But when you deposit cash they give a
    receipt with the new balance (including the deposit).  Something is
    updated immediately.  I still find it hard to believe that deposits of
    cash require any type of hold.  
    

    The key point in my reply was: 
    
>    Had that happen to me with one bank a while ago. Cash was held for one
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    I'm no longer with that bank.
    
    				Charlie . . .
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>    On placing a hold on a *cash* deposit ...
>    
>    Had that happen to me with one bank a while ago. Cash was held for one
>    full business day. 
>    
>    Turned out the computer was updated overnight - - took that long for
>    the computer to catch up to the real world.
>    
>    As an earlier noter said, "I don't defend 'em, just explain 'em".
>    
>    				Charlie . . .
    

    I suppose another reason for the cash hold is that all money needs to
    be counted at the end of the day.  It is possible that an error was
    made when your cash went in.  The day delay gives the bank a chance to
    detect and correct the error before any money comes out of your
    account.
    
    Steve

Once you have a receipt that says you deposited $N cash, how can the bank
claim you deposited less?  Tellers count cash very carefully because they're
responsible for shortages.

    Re .19:
    
>   Once you have a receipt that says you deposited $N cash, how can the
>   bank claim you deposited less?  Tellers count cash very carefully
>   because they're responsible for shortages.
    
    All deposits are subject to audit, and there's usually a disclaimer to
    that effect on the slip or posted at the window/ATM.  That doesn't let
    tellers off the hook; if you cashed a check for $100 and the teller
    gave you 6 $20 bills because two stuck together, (s)he would have to
    reimburse the bank for the $20 shortage in the cash drawer.
                                                               

    	A woman bought something from me and paid me with a Bay Bank check.
    The check bounced so I called her. She said that Bay Banks hold

    		$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    		$	CASH DEPOSITS		$
    		$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    for a few days. DCU put the check back in the system and it cleared the
    second time. DCU did not charge me anything because they know how Bay
    Bank works and I believe that it is customary for banks to resubmit
    checks. I think they know whether the money in the account is on hold or
    just not there.

    	Maybe banks don't trust the U.S. Government's paper money and wait
    until the Federal Reserve Bank electronically transfers the funds from
    bank A to bank B... or maybe they are hauling gold around.

    	JOKE
    Sam: "Hey Jim, Does your mother work?"
    Jim: "No. She's a banker!"


    			Arnie
    

Re: .19:

> Once you have a receipt that says you deposited $N cash, how can the bank
> claim you deposited less?  Tellers count cash very carefully because they're
> responsible for shortages.

& .20:

>   All deposits are subject to audit, and there's usually a disclaimer to
>   that effect on the slip or posted at the window/ATM.  That doesn't let
>   tellers off the hook; if you cashed a check for $100 and the teller
>   gave you 6 $20 bills because two stuck together, (s)he would have to
>   reimburse the bank for the $20 shortage in the cash drawer.

(A technical correction, based on information receieved directly from
a bank teller!)

The tellers ARE responsible for shortages, but may NOT be required to
reimburse the bank.  Instead, their JOBS depend on keeping the mistakes
to a minimum.

The details of the policies vary from bank to bank, but here's one
example I know.  At Workingmen's Cooperative Bank, the total errors are
added - and it's the magnitude;  having an extra $100 is just as bad
as missing $100.  If a teller's mistakes add up to $500 or more during
the calendar year, they're automatically terminated - i. e., out of a
job.

				- - Steve

I have my payroll balance direct deposited into St Mary's Bank in Manchester.
If I walk into an ATM or up to a teller and ask them my balance on Thursday,
it's (the weekly deposit) not there. The reason turned out to be just what
has been described before - the money is there, I (and the teller) cannot see
it. If I use the ATM after 6:00 that evening, poof, it's there. They called it
"Memo Post." Noone at the bank could tell me what was going on - it took a call
to Payroll to find out. Now armed with those magic words, If I tell the teller 
that it's "Memo Posted", they say ok, look and "Gee, there it is." you'd think 
the program(mer) would be smart enough to point that out without their 
intervention...

Bryan

RE: .12

Having previously used the borrow against CRT and repay to CRT to avoid the 
 check hold time, I did it again last week.

Much to my chagrin there it was right there under the new balance line, HELD
UNTIL 1/XXX which was 5 working days later! My check was for $2k. So they now 
have a hold on CRT payments too.

Thot you all should know.

Dave

    Allowing that SOME banks/CU's might work differently and that I might
    get this slightly awry.
    
    SOME BANKS do this: When you make a deposit, the "on-line balance" is
    updated and a couple of slips of paper go into a stack of slips, if
    it was cash, there's a cash-in ticket, if it's a check they go in
    the stack with your deposit slip.  At the end of the working day,
    the on-line balance is discarded, and the [is it bookkeeping or
    accounting?] dept goes through the stacks of paper from the tellers and
    makes the real updates to your account.
    
    (This is my transliteration of the process which my wife described to
    me.  She used to work in a bank.)  Yes, it's retarded and crying for
    improvement.
    
    ed