Conference 7.286::dcu

    re: .0
    
    This is a cheap shot, with no basis in fact.  I was at the headquarters
    mortgage office this week, and they ARE completely booked up with first
    mortgage and refinance applicants until late February.  I showed up
    without an appointment seeking information, and they were nice enough
    to accomodate me between two scheduled appointments (I believe they're
    scheduled every half-hour).  The surge is the result of the VERY
    competitive rates they're offering (example:  15 year fixed @ 8.00%
    with no points, or 7.75% with 1 point), which are among the best I've 
    seen in the area.
    
    I'm growing weary of people who have nothing better to do than look for
    hidden agendas and paint every issue as another case of "them" out to
    get "us", without necessarily having any first-hand knowledge or facts.
    I think the DCU is making a good-faith attempt to get back on track,
    and a little patience and support would go a long way toward assisting
    in that process.
    
    Dick.

    One has to wonder how many of those two months worth of bookings
    actually have 70% equity... nationwide, one out of three applications
    for refinancing are rejected due to lack of equity.  The DCU gets to
    keep the application fee regardless, so that's good for them.

One option DCU has would be to publish their guidelines. For instance, if
they require 70% equity and I don't have anywhere near that, I wouldn't
need to apply.

    re: .4
    
    As it was explained to me, DCU sells all the mortgages that it
    originates to the secondary market for servicing.  The guidelines are
    set by the individual investor groups, and they do change (not only
    equity but PIT%, TD%, tax escrow requirements, etc.) with each program. 
    An informed consumer would ask these questions before plopping down
    several hundred for an application fee, I would hope.
    
    Dick.

	Re. -4

	Agreed..  When I applied (and got) my H.E.L from the DCU,
	it was not mentioned (nor did I ask) what the percentage
	was.  I was looking for a relatively small amount for the
	line (asking for $5K) and DCU said I could increase that 
	to $15K.  Well, I did..  Now that I think of it, the amount 
	allowed was the 70% of the equity.

	For me it didn't matter, but for many it would.  I believe
	(and correct me if I'm wrong) that the NORMAL amount is the
	90% rule.  Now to me 20% is a VERY large difference..

	Csw

    
    	Re: .6
    
    	"Normal" used to be 90% during the boom years of the 80s since
    banks (and the secondary market buyers) figured the prices will always
    climb.  "Normal" is now probably 80% for average banks with 70% not
    being odd.  There is a reason why a bank would go for 70% instead of
    80% -- since the loan is that much less risky, they can offer a lower
    interest rate on the mortgage and/or lower points and still have a
    reasonable secondary market to sell the mortgage to.  The investment
    return is directly related to the risk of the loan, so if DCU wants to
    strive for lower advertised interest rates, they have to also strive for
    lower risk mortgages.  (ie. who would want to buy a mortgage that was
    both high risk and lower return when they could buy a different
    mortgage that was either high risk / high return or lower risk / lower
    return?)
    
    								-craig

    Also, consider that 70% today could possibly be 90% in a year if the
    Real Estate market keeps going down.
    
    I just wish they had been this conservative in Cape Cod.
    

    
    Re: .1
    
    It may be pushing it a bit, but I wouldn't go so far as to call
    it a cheap shot.  If the DCU were interested in being reponsive
    they could set up a temporary process for doing a very preliminary
    review of persons interested.  It wouldn't be hard to train a
    person to be able to spend 10 minutes with someone going over the
    key financial areas of refinancing to help determine whether I
    need bother make an appointment with one of the mortgage people.
    For example, just addressing whether I had the required 70% equity
    would be enough to let me know I should look elswhere.
    
    Going just the extra mile here would gain them a lot in terms of
    good will.
    
    Steve
    

    re: .9
    
    I was at the mortgage office doing exactly that - exploring whether it
    would be worth my while to refinance.  After a short Q&A session, I was
    satisfied that it was not in my best interests.  I had all the answers
    to LTV ratio, rates, terms, closing costs, points, etc. for all
    available programs.  No hassle, I just asked.
    
    I guess the point is, the info is available (you can get it by phone,
    too), and I can't understand why anyone would put up several hundred
    dollars for an application fee and THEN ask basic questions.  The DCU
    is responsive, but, as in any other consumer transaction, the burden of
    asking questions and gathering information falls to the consumer.  This
    does not strike me as unusual.
    
    Dick.

re .11 (Tim)

> Let me clarify onepoint. You are not required to have 70% equity in your home.
> DCU will only loan up to 70% of the equity that you do have. 

Not having access to what the actual deal is, but judging from your original
reply, I assume you meant to say that DCU will only loan up to 70% of the
appraised value of the home.  Otherwise, you're in big trouble!

When we had our refinance appointment (also with The Coo-perative Bank), the
loan person mentioned a required 80% equity as one of the terms, and kept on
talking.  We stopped her when we had the chance, and asked her "80% equity??",
to which she replied "No, 80% loan to equity ratio.  Did I say 80% equity??".

Jill

    It was reported today on a national economic news report that banks all
    over the country are having difficulty handling the large increase in
    mortgage applications caused by the declining interest rates.

    
    
    	The DCU had better get with it. I had to wait oh, about 30 minutes
    	with a bank here in the "springs for an appointment with a loan
    	officer. 30 MINUTES.... got super service, and they came to me!
    	I mean they came to my hotel and that's where the paper work was
    	done, AND I got a better rate than DCU offers.
    
    	DCU has a LOOOOOOng way to go. They need to become more user
    	friendly..(I HATE THAT SAYING).
    
    	my .02
    	rich
    
    	

The official statement on DCU mortgage programs posted in note 416 invalidates
the claim that I made in .2 and .11. Perhaps they changed, or perhaps I
misunderstood. In either case I am very happy to see DCU formulate this program
and publish it here.

I have now deleted my replies .2 and .11

Tim

    
    Re: .10
    
    > The DCU is responsive, but, as in any other consumer transaction,
    > the burden of asking questions and gathering information falls to
    > the consumer.  This does not strike me as unusual.
    
    Perhaps it isn't unusual, but I couldn't disagree more with your
    view on reponsibility.  I am the consumer.  I have the money to spend.
    If you want MY money then you give me what I want.  I don't want to
    have to spend a lot of time figuring out what questions to ask and 
    whether I have all the information I need.  I expect you to do that
    for me so I can decide whether or not to do business with you.  If
    you don't want to do that then someone else more hungry that you will.
    From some other responses here, it sounds as if others have caught
    on where DCU has not.
    
    Steve
    

    I'm not surprised that people are finding better responses from
    mortgage companies right now.  Afterall, that is all they do.  They are
    probably willing to bend over backwards to help cover some of the bad
    paper they are now sitting on.  DCU does more than just offer mortgages
    and they appear to be going through some major reorganization right
    now.
    
    Someone in the Real Estate notesfile mentioned that a few banks have
    started upping their interest rates a bit in an attempt slow down the
    flood of refinancing applications.

    re: .16
    
    I agree with your notion of responsibility for full disclosure residing
    with the business, not the consumer.  However, since not all businesses
    have reached the same enlightened state, the only point I was trying to
    make was that it falls to the consumer to make sure that the business
    has provided all relevant information PRIOR TO putting up a deposit, in
    this case an application fee.  Caveat emptor.
    
    It will be great when all businesses have reached the rarified level of
    not only satisfying, but DELIGHTING their customers.  It will take some
    time, and we as consumers ought to do our utmost to recognize where
    business is on the learning curve, and pad our collective posteriors as
    required.
    
    8-).

    	I called DCU Jan 3 to refinance my house. They made an appointment
    for February 10 which was a 6 week wait. Four days later, Jan 7, they
    called me back and told me that there was a cancellation and asked me
    if I could come in now. I did not even have time to collect all the
    documentation that was needed for the application so I ask them if
    I could come in another day. They rescheduled me in for Jan 10th.
    
    	One week... That's good service.

    			Arnie