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Conference 7.286::dcu

Title:DCU
Notice:1996 BoD Election results in 1004
Moderator:CPEEDY::BRADLEY
Created:Sat Feb 07 1987
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1041
Total number of notes:18759

351.0. "Parliamentary Issues" by NECVAX::HUTCHINSON () Thu Nov 07 1991 13:11

    Might help with coherence of conference to have a note on parliamentary
    issues?
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351.1Motion to adjourn debatable? etc.NECVAX::HUTCHINSONThu Nov 07 1991 13:2175
    The following picks up from 333.89 re motion to adjourn not being
    debatable.         
                       
    
    Though there is room for either interpretation, I believe that in the
    case of our Special Meeting, a motion to adjourn should be considered
    a main motion, not a privileged one.  It would then only be in order
    when no other business is on the floor and would be debatable.

        "A motion to adjourn is always a privileged motion except in
         the following cases:
                                   .
                                   .
            3) When the effect of the motion to adjourn, if adopted, 
               would be to dissolve the assembly with no provision 
               for another meeting, as is usually the case in a mass
               meeting or the last meeting of a convention.

         Under any of the conditions (1) through (3) above, a motion to 
         adjourn is not privileged and is treated just as any other main
         motion."

        "In ordinary societies having bylaws that provide for several
         regular meetings during the year and having no fixed hour for
         adjournment, a motion "to adjourn," when unqualified, is always
         a privileged motion."

        "When adjournment would disolve an assembly, the motion to adjourn
         is a main motion subject to debate, amendment, or the application
         of any other subsidiary motion.  A motion to close the session in
         an assembly that will thereby be dissolved, or will not meet again 
         for a long time unless called into authorized special session under
         the bylaws or other governing rule, is often referred to as a motion
         to "adjourn sine die," which means to "adjourn without day.""

                                           Robert's Rules, Section 21


    Even if a privileged motion to adjourn is allowed by the chair, and the 
    meeting sustains that ruling, Robert's does provide:

        "Although the privileged motion to Adjourn is undebatable, the 
         following parliamentary steps are in order while it is pending:
   
             -to inform the assembly of business requiring attention
              before adjournment;
             -to make important announcements;
             -..."

                                           Robert's Rules, Section 21


    If this Special Meeting is adjourned "sine die" (without fixing a time 
    at which to reconvene) prior to consideration of any portion of its 
    order of business, I believe we will have discarded those items with 
    no action.  That might result in a second petition and, if successful, 
    a second special meeting.  I think it better that we decide (rather 
    than avoid) the issues.

    I do not expect this meeting to be dominated by parliamentary 
    machinations.  The purpose of the rules is to help the meeting to work,
    to provide the structure and sequence which enable the meeting to 
    deliberate and decide efficiently.  It is the responsibility of the 
    chair to see that they are used that way, and not to thwart the will 
    of the members (within the bylaws).

    An earlier note suggested that attendance is the overriding issue.  I
    agree.  The majority of the members present will decide.  Robert's Rules
    are a structure to accomplish that.  There should be plenty of support
    in the hall for any member who wishes to do something but does not know
    how to proceed under the rules.  That is one of the responsibilites of
    the chair - so ask.
    

    Jack
351.2SQM::MACDONALDThu Nov 07 1991 15:2120
    
    Re: .1
    
    >I do not expect this meeting to be dominated by parliamentary 
    >machinations.  The purpose of the rules is to help the meeting to work,
    >to provide the structure and sequence which enable the meeting to 
    >deliberate and decide efficiently.  It is the responsibility of the 
    >chair to see that they are used that way, and not to thwart the will 
    >of the members (within the bylaws).
    
    That is precisely how I understand it also.  Isn't there a
    procedure provided for the assembled members to question and
    even override a ruling by the chair if they disagree?  I seem to
    remember there being one.  I once attended a town meeting where in 
    the opinion of the members, the chair was showing clear bias and his
    ruling on a point was challenged and overridden.
    
    Steve
    
    
351.3Appealing a RulingNECVAX::HUTCHINSONThu Nov 07 1991 18:2597
     Re .2
    
     Any member can both request rulings from the chair and challenge rulings
     which she believes to be mistaken.

     In the former case:

         "When a member thinks that the rules of the assembly are being 
          violated, he can make a Point of Order, thereby calling upon the 
          chair for a ruling and an enforcement of the regular rules."
 
                                       Robert's Rules  Section 23


     For example, if a member makes a statement which maligns or impugns
     the motives of another member or group of members, then

     "Mr Chairman, I rise to a point of order."

     "What is your point of order?"

     "I bring to your attention a breach of the rules which you have not 
      addressed.  The statement by Mr Smith that ... is sarcastic and 
      undermines the credibility of a member."

     At this point, the Chair must make a ruling (or he could "being in
     doubt, submit the point to a vote of the assembly.")


     The purpose here is to enforce the rules, not to manipulate the meeting.
     A rule should be cited.


     In the later case, 

        "By electing a presiding officer, the assembly delegates to him
         the authority and duty to make necessary rulings on questions of
         parliamentary law,  But any two mwmbers have the right to Appeal
         from his decision on such a question.  By one member making the
         appeal and another seconding it, the question is taken from the 
         chair and vested in the assembly for final decision."

        "If a member disagrees with a ruling of the chair affecting any 
         substantial question, he should not hesitate to appeal.  The 
         situation is no more delicate than disagreeing with another member
         in debate."

                                     Robert's Rules  Section 24

     Might go like this:

     "I appeal from the decision of the chair."

     The chair then states his reasons for his ruling.

     There may or may not be debate, depending on the cicumstances.

     The chair then puts the question to the membership in such a way that
     a positive vote supports his ruling, and a negative vote overrides.

     "Shall the decision of the chair be sustained." 

     This is the only case I know where a tie vote is affirmative.




    If anyone is interested, the power of the assembly, by majority vote,
    over arbitrary behaviour by the chair is considerable.

    Under "Remedies Against Misconduct or Deriliction of Duty in Office",

       "If the chair at a meeting ignores a motion apparently made and 
        seconded in good faith, and neither states the question on the 
        motion nor rules it out of order, the maker of the motion should 
        raise a Point of Order (23) covering the case, and on the chair's 
        decision he can make an Appeal (24).  If the chair also ignores 
        the point of order, the member can repeat the motion; and if it 
        is seconded and the chair still ignores it, the maker of the motion 
        can himself put it to a vote standing in his place.  If the regular
        presiding officer of an organized society culpably fails to perform
        the duties of the chair properly in a meeting, a motion can also be
        made to censure him, which can be put to a vote by the maker of 
        the motion as just explained, if necessary.  If the offending 
        occupant of the chair is not the regular presiding officer of 
        the society, a motion can be made to "declare the chair vacant 
        and proceed to elect a new chairman."  Such a motion is a question 
        of privilege affecting the assembly."


    So the chair is quite ineffective without majority support of the 
    membership.  A majority can "bully" a meeting, but a chairman who lacks 
    their support cannot.


    Jack