Conference 7.286::dcu

re .0:

Does Paymate actually cost DCU anything?  Electronic transactions are cheaper
to process than paper ones.  Does DCU pay Paymate or does Paymate pay DCU?

ATM transactions are cheaper than teller transactions.  There was a fuss
at Citibank several years ago because they wanted to charge ordinary
customers for window transactions in order to encourage them to use ATMs.

    
    RE: .1
    
    Don't know who pays who.  But if it isn't profitable to DCU it should
    go.  Also, it's what many would consider fairly low on the priority
    list.
    
    About the ATM cost, one would think they are cheaper.  But I got the
    distinct impression at the meeting Monday that may not be the case. 
    There are other costs associated with them.  That's why I'd like DCU to
    tell us the most cost efficient way of doing business with it.
    

    I would like to get my cheques back. I'm sick and tired of trying to
    remember what those cryptic entries are on the statement, if I can't
    lay my hands instantly on my cheque stubs. If DCU are unwilling to send
    cheques back, I want to see an extension on the statement for name of
    payee and memos.
    
    I dread having an audit, and having to *pay* DCU for copies of my own
    bloody cheques.
    
    Ray

    I don't see what all the fuss is about having to get the checks back. 
    In 7+ years with DCU and some time before that with other institutions
    that didn't return the checks I have only been required to furnish a
    cancelled check once.  Copies of my carbons have proven sufficient for
    the few other inquiries I've had.

    
    I keep my monthly statements with my tax records.  I haven't had to use
    them, but I would think that having the carbons and the statements
    would be fairly good proof that the checks had cleared.
    

>    I keep my monthly statements with my tax records.  I haven't had to use
>    them, but I would think that having the carbons and the statements
>    would be fairly good proof that the checks had cleared.


  You gotta be kidding me!!!  It may make you feel good but anyone wanting
to audit things wants to see the cancelled check!  I can make out a check
make it payable to person B and the carbon can be made to show person A.

  I had a case a few months ago where the oil company that received my check
did not imprint the correct amount on the bottom of the check.  It cleared
for the wrong amount.  I had to get a copy of the check to straighten out
the whole mess.  No one wanted to believe the carbon (NOT even the DCU!!!).    

    Re .last few:
    
    Okay, so cancelled checks are on your wish list.  While I'm not as
    insistent on having them each month, I agree that people sometimes need
    to obtain them for a variety of reasons.  DCU should work to make this
    as easy for both the member and themselves as possible.
    
    Let's move on to the next suggestion.

    With any credit union you CAN'T get your "drafts" back.  Those are not
    "checks", those are "drafts".  There is a subtle difference.
    
    - Vikas

	I'm a member of St. Mary's Credit Union in Marlboro Mass.

	I get all my checks/drafts back...

	/robinf

    We're in the '90s now, folks.  The "good old days" are behind us.
    
    DCU needs to adapt its methods of providing service to both the fiscal
    realities (with or without the participation loan losses) and the
    technology of the present.  Here's how I see it:
    
      �	The VAST majority of transactions are deposits and withdrawls.
    	They could as easily be done through ATMs as at teller windows.
    	ATMs have the dual advantage of being available 24 hours a day
    	and nearly everywhere.
    
      �	A second large class of transactions are transfers from one
    	sub-account to another (e.g. RSVP to checking).  To the extent
    	that DCU's Easy Touch is available, these can be done without
    	teller intervention.
    
      �	Many the remaining transactions (wire transfers, et al) could be
    	handled by a human teller at the end of a telephone.  This could be
    	an additional Easy Touch option (after one has entered both the
    	account number and PID) during banking hours.
    
      �	The remaining transactions still require human interface, though
    	many could be handled by mail.  (Submitting/returning paperwork,
    	for example -- my second auto loan with SAC FCU was handled
    	ENTIRELY by mail.)
    
    Given the above, the excessive overhead of DCU's 30+ branches could be
    reduced significantly.  Here are my suggestions:
    
    1.	Consolidate branches to the point where there is one per existing
    	geography.  I'd leave one each at MRO, MLO, & ZKO.
    
    2.	Either install a DCU ATM in place of each closed branch or get out
    	of the ATM business entirely.  The savings from #1 should be able
    	to subsidize free (or at least cheaper) CIRRUS ATM transactions.
    
    3.	Get back into the "circuit rider" mode of operation, similar to
    	both MetPay and Petty Cash.  DCU employees would have office hours
    	at each location (between one and three times a week, depending on
    	the need) at which they could perform paper-handling transactions.
    	Either a laptop computer or arranging a VT200 for connection to DCU
    	at each location would be helpful.
    
    4.	The mail still goes through.  Use it!  That puts all DCU members
    	on the same footing and is MUCH CHEAPER than branch overhead.

        re: .10
        
        The one transaction I need to do most often, Easy Touch will not
        handle: specifically transfering money from my account to my
        wife's account. I have to call and ask a human to do this each
        time it is necessary (too often, if you ask me :-(). Obviously,
        the solution to this problem is to fix Easy Touch...

re .10:

If you eliminate DCU branches *and* DCU ATMs, how are we supposed to deposit
checks?  You can't make a DCU deposit at J. Random ATM, can you?  Also, the
only reason I bank at DCU is the convenience of having it at work.  If there
weren't even an ATM here, I'd bank elsewhere.  I use human tellers when it's
faster (e.g. cashing checks when the line's short), but I could live with the
extra trouble of using an ATM all the time.

    Re .12:
    
>   If you eliminate DCU branches *and* DCU ATMs, how are we supposed to
>   deposit checks?  You can't make a DCU deposit at J. Random ATM, can
>   you?
    
    That depends...  A number of smaller banks have hooked in to BayBank's
    X-Press 24 system such that deposits can be made anywhere.  DCU could
    do likewise.  DCU might have to cut special deals with financial
    institutions in the other states in which it has members (or more
    simply with CIRRUS and/or PLUS) to allow deposits and transfers in
    addition to withdrawls and balance inquiries.  I still believe it can
    be done -- and for MUCH less money than keeping all 30+ branches open.
    
>   Also, the only reason I bank at DCU is the convenience of having it at
>   work.  If there weren't even an ATM here, I'd bank elsewhere.  I use
>   human tellers when it's faster (e.g. cashing checks when the line's
>   short), but I could live with the extra trouble of using an ATM all the
>   time.
    
    I *do* think that closed branches should be replaced by ATMs.  If DCU
    were to get out of the ATM business, then a local bank's ATM (such as
    an X-Press 24 machine) should be installed and serviced.

    re .10 
    
    I wouldn't trust the US post office to actually deliver the mail
    either.
    
    When I was an undergraduate, I had a DCU account (complements of a
    summer job), and I would do deposits by mail.  I stopped when the
    DCU deposited the money to the wrong account.  They never mailed me
    the receipt for the deposit (probably a keying error, and the 
    receipt would have been mailed to the owner of the account where the
    money actually went).  Two months after I had mailed the deposit,
    I went to each of the people who had written me the checks that I had
    deposited to find out if the checks had cleared.  Only then did it
    become apparent what had happened.  After I got copies of the cancelled
    checks the DCU credited my account.  It was a real pain.
    
    However the real reason I no longer use the post office for important 
    things stems from my experience trying to get a mortgage.  Because my
    husband had worked less than a year at the time, we had to have his
    graduate school transcripts sent to the DCU.  Boston University sent
    them twice.  The DCU never got them.  At the time I was no sure whether
    it was BU, US Mail, or the DCU that was having the problem.  More
    recently, I sent a letter to investor services (because to get an
    official explanation of anything, you need an official letter).  Again
    the letter never got there.  Same post office (Maynard), different PO
    box.  As a result of my experiences, I would say banking by mail for
    transactions which require people and paper is not a reasonable option.
    
    Just my $.02
    -Cyndi

re .14

  I do a lot of banking by mail, and have done for 25 years.  I've never had
  US mail transaction messed up or lost.  (Yet.  One shouldn't talk like that!)

  I have, however, had a similar experience with sending documents to DCU.
  When we applied for a mortgage a few years ago, DCU requested all kinds
  of documents, including things like reports on student loans.  Weeks and
  weeks went by, and DCU kept saying out application couldn't be approved
  because they didn't have the necessary information.

  We finally gave up on them and went with a commercial mortgage provider
  (which, incidentally, was FAR easier to deal with, and required far
  fewer documents in the first place).

  After we'd closed with the commercial outfit, DCU finally found the
  documents -- it had been an internal screw-up at DCU, not the postal
  service.

  I believe your deposit might have gone to the wrong account.  It's hard
  to see why the US post office should take the blame, though.

    
    RE: post office
    
    I agree with .15.  Everytime something gets lost, people blame it on
    the mail.  It's easy right?  While the mail occassionally does get
    misdirected, probably 99.99% of it gets delivered correctly.  It usually
    gets lost in the shuffle at the receiving end.  BTW, there are no
    postal workers in my family... :-)
    

    
    Re: .16
    
    Well I hope it is at least 99.99% because since the U.S. Postal
    Service handles such a volume of mail that being 99.99% accurate
    would mean that they would still lose 200 pieces of mail every
    hour!
    
    Steve
    

    The USPS advertises that it moves 500 Million items a day...
    
    q
    

    In .10, I proposed a SERIOUS consolidation of branches (replacing them
    with ATMs, METPAY-style "circuit riders", and improved EasyTouch and
    bank-by-mail services).  Here's a bit of "from the hip" analysis.
    
    My gut feel (reinforced by the DCU's financial statement, which says
    personnel costs ran about $6M last year) is that the typical small
    branch has three employees and an annual budget around $150K.  With 250
    business days, that's $600/day divided by however many transactions
    they perform (which is probably less than a hundred).  That calculates
    out to $6/transaction or MORE!
    
    DCU has over 30 branches.  I'd like to eliminate (over the course of a
    year) 20 of them.  If 1 person (from each 3-person branch to be closed)
    is retained to provide for "circuit riders" and ATM servicers, then the
    potential personnel savings would run about $2M per year (40 x $50K). 
    That would be offset by the cost of new ATMs at $25K each, plus upkeep.
    Fees generated about $1M last year.  The new fee structure is probably
    intended to raise another $1M.  Branch closings could save twice that.
    
    Meanwhile, back at PKO5, SERIOUS improvement to DCU's ability to
    provide telephone and mail service is needed.  I'd suggest dedicating
    people as bank-by-mail tellers (I suspect mail transactions are handled
    in an ad-hoc fashion at the moment) and adopting a policy of providing
    a postage-free business reply envelope with each receipt, so DCU bears
    the cost of postage both ways.  EasyTouch should be upgraded to allow
    inter-account transfers (with some kind of verification to assure the
    destination account is the one intended) and the option of speaking to
    a human (during business hours) after establishing one's identity.
    
    <Rat-hole Alert!>
    
    As I was out for my evening constitutional, it struck me that what
    REALLY needs to change at DCU (even more than reducing costs) is the
    ATTITUDE of its middle management.  Why should I put my hard-earned
    money into a "credit union" (and I use the term loosely) that doesn't
    give a damn whether I do business there?
    
    How about providing some incentives to DCU's management to care?  For
    instance, how about docking each manager $50 (or 5%, whichever is
    greater) for each active account that's closed.  To be fair, such
    incentives should be also provided on the new accounts/products side
    (payable after the account has been active for a minimum period).  I'll
    bet THAT would get the attention of the often-nameless managers whose
    labrynthine rules make dealing with the DCU so difficult.
    
    Before the hate mail starts, I should say that I'm not picking on
    managers in general (I *am* one).  DCU has a SERIOUS attitude problem,
    and it's not the tellers who are at fault.  The BoD owns the problem,
    but has taken no visible action toward fixing it.  The new President is
    an unknown entity, but at least he hasn't contributed to the problem. 
    That leaves DCU's middle managers to carry the ball.  From what I've
    seen over the past 4� years, DCU's middle management is as firmly
    entrenched in the current mode of operation as the BoD.
    
    THAT MUST CHANGE.

re:  .19

   closings - 
	I tend to agree with you on the branch closing issue, but how  do
	you  choose  which  branches  to  hit  (aside  from  the  obvious
	duplication)?   You  could  have  one  of  those  "base  closing"
	attitudes to overcome...you can close any branch you want as long
	as it's not mine.  How would you proceed?

   attitudes - 
	There it is folks - the number two issue making everybody run for
	another  bank.   I  get treated like crap from everybody from the
	teller's  that won't even say "howdy" and right up the line.  The
	"Bank of Digital" attitude that seems to make me a lesser  person
	than  they  has  got  to go.  If the board had apologized for the
	recent bad investments I feel that  many  people  would  be  more
	receptive  to  them.  If the bank officials and employees treated
	us  all  with  a  little  common  respect  (something  that   is,
	admittedly  hard  to  find  on the East Coast he writes using his
	best midwestern  born-in-ohio  accent  :-)  ),  people  would  be
	staying.  We might still be pretty miffed  about  stuff,  but  we
	would certainly be more tolerant.

	The  fees  were a bad idea.  The attitude and "shop around if you
	can't pay the rent"-style of dealing with MEMBERS (not CUSTOMERS,
	get it yet guys?) has really got to change.

    
    RE: closings & costs
    
    I'd have to see real figures before I'd touch that with a 10 foot pole. 
    When DCU puts a branch in a location they first determine whether that
    branch will be profitable.  So these branches should be a net GAIN for
    DCU.  DCU's crying about so many branches is baloney IMO.  Sure, some
    could go but 20 seems pretty high.
    
    IMO, DCU cutbacks should be in the area of all these peripheral
    "services" that do nothing but add departments at headquarters to
    administer them.  Get back to the BASICS and leave blender insurance
    to somebody else.
    
    RE: attitudes
    
    I've witnessed both extremes.  I've had DCU employees bend over
    backwards to help and I've had a branch manager tell me to take my
    business elsewhere when I wasn't allowed to do a transaction that I'd
    done several times before.  IMO attitudes start at the TOP.  And the
    top of this credit union isn't the middle management.  Maybe DCU
    employees are just as miffed with the current state of the credit
    union?  After all, they can join too.
    

    I heard the PKO3 branch will close down on September 20.  This branch
    is located next to the cafeteria.
    
    Bo

re .19

	I suspect the branch in ZKO does quite a bit more than 100
	transactions per day... But if there are branches which do
	fewer, perhaps it would be better to either close them,
	of have the staffs of two nearby branches operate one
	in the morning, and then move to the other for the afternoon...

	About attitudes: I have found the manager of the ZKO branch
	to be most helpful and reasonable in the few times I had
	to deal with her...

					Tom_K