Conference 7.286::dcu

    Who decides what the 'invoice' price is?  Since the car dealer gets a
    kickback (they call it something else, but it's a kickback) from the
    manufacturer when they sell the car, their 'invoice' price doesn't
    represent the cost of the car to the dealer.  Heck, by the time they've
    added dealer prep, 'advertizing' costs, transportation, and donuts for
    the staff, they've so muddied the waters that the only thing you can be
    sure of is that you're going to get hit $15 for the sticker, when they
    don't have to don't actually have to inspect the car (new cars don't
    require safetly or emissions tests, so they get stickers without the
    inspection!)
    
    Willie

    See LYCEUM::CONSUMER, Note 1985

I got the official info from the DCU, and it again refers to buying a car
for "$49 over the factory invoice".  HOWEVER, the information in note 1985
of LYCEUM::CONSUMER says that, in addition to the usual factory invoice
items (price of the car, the options and destination charge), there is up 
to $275 for an "advertising fee".  I have two reactions to this:

    1)	Why should there be an advertising fee when one buys through 
	Autonet, instead of as a result of the dealer's advertising?
	This strikes me like those semi-fraudulent "additional dealer
	profit" line items that are used to inflate the sticker price.
	Besides, the dealer gets about a 3% kickback from the factory
	price, so it's not like they're getting nothing from the deal.

    2)	Since it fails to mention this fee, DCU's advertising is itself
	deceptive.  A normal person would assume that the factory invoice
	was the factory price -- the price for the car and options plus 
	destination charge but *not* including any dealer prep, dealer 
	packs, or other dealer fees masquarading as factory price.

If the DCU knows that the AutoNet price includes a hidden dealer charge for 
advertising, then I think their ad is a deliberate deception (read: lie).
If they did't know it, why didn't they?  And are they going to make this
clear to those who buy through Autonet?  

I guess the bottom line is:  I'm not surprized when car salesmen lie to me, 
but I expect financial institutions to have higher standards.  If the real
deal is "up to $324 over factory price", the DCU's advertising should say
it that way so that people can decide whether it's a good deal.  It
shouldn't be necessary to wonder if they are telling the whole truth.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

PS -- I posted this here instead of in CONSUMER because the issue I'm
concerned about is the DCU and its advertising, not the Autonet deal itself.

        I've gone thru a similar buying service on the last couple cars
        I've bought. The advertising charge is already on the factory
        invoice, along with delivery and other legitimate charges. Any
        additional dealer added advertising charge is a rip-off.

	The last is correct. On the invoice (if you actually get to 
	see it) there are two lines (plus shipping) that are "normal".
	Advertising is one (this is a charge to the dealer by the 
	manufacturer for national advertising. The other is a "finance
	charge", again charged by the manufacturer to cover the cost
	to the manufacturer while the dealer arranges with his bank
	to pay for the car.

	Both charges are typically 1% of the cost (to the dealer) of
	the car.

Jim (who used to buy Fords on their "A" employee purchase plan)

In other words....

Dealer invoice	= NADA invoice (includes destination charge)
		+ regional distributor's advertising charge

Autonet price	= Dealer invoice + $49

Right?

Yes, .6 is how it is described in the CONSUMER notes file.  I don't think
it's a reasonable argument.  Imagine if someone was offered a VAX at $49
over transfer cost, and when they got the invoice, they found, along with
prices for all the parts and for shipping, a line item indicating some
extra charge for advertising.  Nobody'd think that lived up to the terms
of $49 over transfer cost!

However, my real point is not whether that charge should be made -- it 
is that the charge should *not* be hidden.  If Autonet charges the
NADA invoice plus $49 plus an advertising charge, the information that
the DCU presents should state that.  It should not use a slippery term
like "factory invoice" that no one knows the meaning of, and which seems
designed to make it seem like they are selling for $49 over NADA invoice,
when they are not.  

DCU, don't hide the real terms of this or any other deal deal you offer 
behind slippery language.  Please live up to the honesty and accuracy that 
we all have a right to expect of financial institutions.  I can imagine
that no one at DCU knew at first what "factory invoice" meant, either, but 
you know now.  Will you change the Autonet advertising to make this clear?

	Enjoy,
	Larry Seiler

    I think auto pricing is slippery no matter how you quote it.  Even
    "$49 over NADA invoice" doesn't include the approximately 3%
    "holdback" that most transactions include (money the manufacturer
    gives back to the dealer after the sale).  

    There is no easy way to be "open and honest" in an industry that
    has honed marketing to an ultimate edge (example: the lowest priced
    basic no options Chevrolet pickup truck is called the "Custom Deluxe."

    Rich

    ...4 months later...
    
    Are folks out there using AutoNet?  Are you satisfied with the service?
    
    I'm thinking of joining the DCU just to gain access to this service; it
    sounds like a great deal especially for cars in high demand (high
    markup)
    
    -Matt-

>    ...4 months later...
>    
>    Are folks out there using AutoNet?  Are you satisfied with the service?
    


  Ok guys...  It's now 5+ months later.  Anyone used this service???

  Or... With their high interest rates nobody was interested.  Sigh... Maybe
they can re-coup the cost of the PC's?

True, a lot of people may be willing to wait yet another little while before
buying new autos.  So that source of loan applicants may remain relatively dry
for DCU.

.13>      I'm sure lots of people are in the same situation,  which 
.13>    probably  constitutes the major factor affecting loan demand...

But auto loans aren't the only way DCU could turn over its loanable money.
As rates drop (and as Al suggests) a lot of people are taking action to reduce
credit-card debt, much of which is still being carried at 20% plus.

I recently paid off two of those (and cut up the cards!).  I did it by taking
out a "normal" bank loan.  With a "normal" bank, unfortunately for DCU...

    	I just ordered A 1992 Dodge Dakota 4x4 pickup through Autonet.  I
    didn't find out about DCU discontinuing its relationship with Auotnet
    until after my loan was approved.  So far it has been a positive 
    experience.  I would rather have a root canal than go to a car dealer
    and spend all day hassling with a sales person.  No matter how much
    you try to get a good deal, you always walk away feeling you could have
    done better.  With Autonet, you know what the dealer is paying for the
    vehicle and options and even with the advertising charge and the $49
    up front money, I feel I'm getting exactly the truck I want at a fair
    price.  You also get any factory rebates in effect at the time sent
    back to you from Autonet.  The lady I've dealt with is Beverly Cormier
    and she has been very helpful and knowledgable in all respects.
    
    						Don Ford
    						San Bernardino, Ca.