Conference abbott::teamlinks_windows

Eric,
	Without the app being integrated it is not possible.  When there is 
no integration there is no communication between the launched application  
and TeamLinks, so we don't know when an app has closed a document. All we 
can tell is the app is no longer running.  If this is a customer 
application we could tell them how to do an integration but for Notepad etc. 
there is no way.
	You should PTR having to open and close the folder to get the UI to 
reflect the reservation has been cleared but I'm not sure if it's totally 
fixable i.e. I can think of a couple of scenarios that we'd never be able to 
handle.

Mike 

We already have a PTR (11-3-1091) for the reservation Icon not being 
cleared and it's on the must fix list for EFT2, so don't bother adding 
another.

Mike

		Hello Mike,


	Thanks for complete info.

	You mentionned that this is not possible with a non-integrated
	application but, here, I am talking about Winword 6 with the
	integration macros installed: Any chance it could work in this
	case ?

	I think it is advisable to have same behavior for both method
	to avoid user confusion.

	What customer does is to manually cancel the reservation from
	Infoman after closing the document (not WinWord). I warned him that
	this can lead to loss of data because Infoman will save the temporary
	file only when user will close WinWord; If the document was edited
	by someone else in between, data will be lost.


					No so easy, huh ?

					Eric Collart
					MCS Brussels

Eric,

I'm not excactly sure what the problem is from reading .0 and .3.  Is
the document already reserved when the launch is done?  Because that makes
a difference.

If Winword 6.0 integration is installed, and a WINWORD6 document is launched
from Infoman, first Infoman will do an implicit (automatic) reservation if
the document isn't already reserved.  If the document was already reserved
explicitly by the user before the launch, then this is remembered for later.

Later when the document is closed within Word using the File Close 
command the integration tells Infoman that it's closing the file.  If 
Infoman is still running at the time, and the document was implicitly
reserved during the launch, then Infoman does the unreserve.  If Infoman
isn't running then the integration does the unreserve, but again only
if the document was implicitly reserved during the launch.

So if the document was reserved during the launch, at this point it is
now unreserved.

If an unreserve was done, the only thing left to do is take the little 
padlock reservation graphic away from the document in the Infoman index.
If the parent folder of the document is still opened, then Infoman does 
remove the padlock automatically right after it unreserved the document.  
But if the parent folder has been closed and reopened since the document 
was launched, then Infoman (Fclist actually) cannot removed the padlock
graphic.  The document is still unreserved, it just the padlock doesn't
go away unless you close and reopen the parent folder.

The user shouldn't have to do an explicit unreserve command.

We just verified this with Word 7, but that should work the same as
Word 6.0.

If it isn't working as I described, then perhaps something is wrong.

Bob

Eric,
	I guess I really don't understand what the problem is. So first 
what version of windows are they using and what version of Teamlinks and if 
it's NT is it an Alpha or Intel machine. 
	This is what happens when I launch a Word document.  I have Word6 & 
Word7 with the integrations, I double click on a document, Word gets launched 
and I get a reservation icon. I make a change, then close the document at this 
point I get prompted to save the document into the File Cabinet. I say yes 
and the document is closed, the file is saved into the file cabinet, and the 
reservation Icon goes away (well the icon goes away if you haven't closed the 
folder since launching the document otherwise you have close and open the 
folder again). 
	If you or the customer is seeing something different then I need to 
know exactly what they are doing and seeing.

>        I think it is advisable to have same behavior for both method
>        to avoid user confusion.
If you mean the same behavior whether integrations are installed or not then, 
we disagree. You would be restricting the customer to the lowest common 
denominator.   

>        What customer does is to manually cancel the reservation from
>        Infoman after closing the document (not WinWord). 
They shouldn't have to do this if the integration is installed.

>	I warned him that
>        this can lead to loss of data because Infoman will save the >temporary
>        file only when user will close WinWord; If the document was edited
>        by someone else in between, data will be lost.

With or without the integrations this isn't true (except for Notepad Which 
locks the file) The behavior for integrations I've described above. For non 
integrated apps we check about every 2 seconds to see if the file has changed 
and if it has we save it back into the file cabinet. We just can't do any clean 
up until the application is closed. 

>
>                                        No so easy, huh ?
But it's so much fun :-)

Mike

		Hello Mike and Bob,


	Sorry for the late answer, I was on holiday.


>
>Eric,
>        I guess I really don't understand what the problem is. So first 
>what version of windows are they using and what version of Teamlinks and if 
>it's NT is it an Alpha or Intel machine. 

	Customer complains the reservation is sometimes not released when
	closing a word document (not word itself) that was launched from
	Infoman (from a local file cabinet located on a Novell volume).
	MS-Windows 3.1
	Teamlinks Office 2.7
	Word 6.0 (or 6.0a) with integration macro intalled


>        This is what happens when I launch a Word document.  I have Word6 & 
>Word7 with the integrations, I double click on a document, Word gets launched 
>and I get a reservation icon. I make a change, then close the document at this 
>point I get prompted to save the document into the File Cabinet. I say yes 
>and the document is closed, the file is saved into the file cabinet, and the 
>reservation Icon goes away (well the icon goes away if you haven't closed the 
>folder since launching the document otherwise you have close and open the 
>folder again). 
>        If you or the customer is seeing something different then I need to 
>know exactly what they are doing and seeing.
>

	I redo my tests (after removing/installing Word and Teamlinks) and
	I have now the same behaviour as you.
	I suppose my config was not clean during my previous testing.
	I use here Win95, Word 7 and Teamlinks 2.7-001 with a local file
	cabinet on my hard disk.


>>        I think it is advisable to have same behavior for both method
>>        to avoid user confusion.
>If you mean the same behavior whether integrations are installed or not then, 
>we disagree. You would be restricting the customer to the lowest common 
>denominator.   
>

	No, I mean same behaviour when launching from Infoman and opening from
	the integrated application.
	My last tests showed me the behaviour is identical in both cases so
	that this "thinking" can be forgotten.

>>        What customer does is to manually cancel the reservation from
>>        Infoman after closing the document (not WinWord). 
>They shouldn't have to do this if the integration is installed.
>
	That's what my last tests showed me, I agree.

>>       I warned him that
>>        this can lead to loss of data because Infoman will save the >temporary
>>        file only when user will close WinWord; If the document was edited
>>        by someone else in between, data will be lost.
>
>With or without the integrations this isn't true (except for Notepad Which 
>locks the file) The behavior for integrations I've described above. For non 
>integrated apps we check about every 2 seconds to see if the file has changed 
>and if it has we save it back into the file cabinet. We just can't do any clean 
>up until the application is closed. 
>

	That's good to know, I deducted a wrong behaviour from my poor
	knowledge. Thanks for the refresh course.

>>
>>                                        No so easy, huh ?
>But it's so much fun :-)
>

	I agree but as customer still has trouble, I will try to find
	a way to reproduce the problem so that we can investigate correctly.


				Thanks for help

				Eric Collart
				MCS Brussels