Conference unifix::sailing

    One of the less pleasant jobs...  Try donning swimming gear, going
    overboard and locating the outlet and then working from that side with
    a length of wire (steel hawser is sometimes good).  A hefty dose of
    patience and a non to hefty dose of imagination helps.

    Close the seacock, disconnect the hose from the seacock and the joker
    valve and clean out. While there, I'd clean out the joker valve too.
    ;>(
    

    Mike
    
       You know that setup is illegal in your home waters right?
    Not trying to be some P.C. @##hole, but the clam cops will make a 
    example out of you if they ever do a random inspection. Some guy in
    Beverly got nailed last year. Check the notes on Holding tanks in here.
    
    "Sailors, the perfect solution to water quality, Air pollution
    (outboards), and Budget deficients"
    
    
    Regards
    
      john

    Assuming that the check valve that you mentioned is "in-line", why not
    just shut the seacock, remove the check valve, de-gunk it replace it
    and then severely punish the culprit ?

RE: .2
The clog is IN the seacock. It will not close. I can not approach 
it from inside the boat. Being from the warm south, I'm REALLY
looking forward to taking a dip in this 60 (feels like 32) degree
water to approach it from the outside (reply .1) but I'm sure
this is sound advice. Anyone gotta wetsuit? :-)

Michael
"Latitude"

    If you know appxoimately where your seacock is and your patience is
    greater than your aversion to cold water, you may be able to reach the
    thru hull with a stiff coat hanger.  Use one of the heavy duty ones
    with a good 6" of hook bent into one end after you straighten it out. 
    I would even go as far as bending a smaller hook or loop in the end to
    latch onto whatever may be in there or break up the offending clog. 
    You could also fashion a hook as above and tape it to a boat hook or
    broom handle etc.  
    
    It may take a while to fish for it but you should be able to reach it
    from a dinghy or alongside a dock.  Calm weather will help along with
    someone inside to guide you by tapping on the hull.  If you have a port
    located above the seacock, you may be able to dangle a plumb bob or
    other weighted item to indicate where the seacock is fore and aft.  
    
    Alternatively, moving the seacock handle back and forth (if possible
    even a little) and pumping may help to work it loose.  
    
    If you have access to compressed air, removing the pump handle and
    plunger and forcing air into the system may help blow the clog out.  You
    may also blow out a hose if you are not careful.  
    
    If you can get to the seacock, removing the hose from the seacock body
    will certainly allow access.  Once unclogged, closing the seacock is
    recommended to preven the vessel from sinking :-).  Having a bung handy
    for this operation would help.  I would also suggest having something
    handy to catch whatever is in the seacock in case it decides to come
    back into the boat from the water pressure.  
    
    Then again 35 secs. in the water should do it as well.  
    
    Brian

    re .5:
    
    I'm not sure what you mean when you say that you cannot approach the
    clogged seacock from inside the boat. Surely the seacock and hose are
    accessible?
    
    Hmmmm, why all this thinking about going in the water and/or working
    from the outside? There should be a vented loop in the outlet hose from
    the toilet to the seacock. This vented loop should be/is supposed to be
    above the waterline. Thus all you need do is remove the outlet hose 
    from either the toilet outlet or the vented loop and use a plumber's
    snake to clear the obstruction. I would certainly try doing it this way
    before removing the hose from the seacock or working from outside the
    boat. I personally would take the hose off the seacock only as a very
    last resort.
    
    Alan
    

Thanks Brian for the ideas. I'll give the coat hanger approach a try; I think 
this one will work. I have an idea what is in there... Let you know how it goes.

Michael
"Latitude"

    re .7
    
    
       Alan
    
        You take it there is a vented loop because that is how "modern"
    systems are plumbed.   Michael said he had a head that went straight
    out via a seacock. I know my circa 1975 boat was exactly like that
    before I plumbed in a holding tank and anit-syphon tube last year.
    
       Great system , hose breaks and sinks your boat.
    
      john
    
    ps Mike, How close to the hull side is your seacock? If 10 folks sit on
    one side, would that roll the boat over enough for you to get at it
    from the outside via a raft?   If not, I have a wetsuit you can borrow.

You could also heel the boat using a halyard out to the side (spinnaker
halyard for preference as it's on a swivel) or by placing a heavy weight 
near the end of the boom then moving the boom out.

Dave

re .10

If you heel the boat with a halyard, be careful that you don't bend the mast! I did
this on my 14' Javelin, and it put a slight bend into the mast. It's a fractional
rig, and the mast bowed while I was heeling it.

While you heel the boat, check for any lateral bowing in the mast. If you see any
bowing, STOP before you put a bend in it!

--RS

    re: heeling the boat with a halyard
    
    Hmmmm, the head inlet/outlet are (or should be) under water at all
    normal angles of heel. It might be difficult to pull the boat over far
    enough to bring the outlet above water. Also, think about the risk of
    doing this. The load on the halyard will be quite high, and the
    consequences of something breaking may not be very nice. Just a
    cautious thought. 
    

We're about the same size John. I'll take you up on your wetsuit offer. 
(I'll take advantage of the situation to look for my Barlow's top-cap too!)
Leave me your number or give me a call at DTN:244-6888.

Michael		PCBUOA::MWEBER
"Latitude"

    Too many wussies around here. Get your bilge pump ready, take the hose
    off the seacock and get that obstruction out with some stiff wire from
    the inside. If it doesn't work, all that's going to happen is that you
    get a bit of water inside.
    
    We've done this a number of times and as long as you're prepared to put
    the hose back on again, what can go wrong?
    
    Our aft head seacock is about 18" below the water line, and the
    through-hull speedo impeller is further down than that, and the amount
    of water that comes in is perfectly manageable while accomplishing a
    small taks like that.

The water was COLD (for me) but the process was straightforward. By first, from inside, 
taking note of an object in line with the clogged valve (the stay for me), I then went
over with a wetsuit and flippers; the flippers were a great help in keeping up with the
boat as it sailed at its mooring. I went to the stay and quickly found the outlet. And
then with a coathanger I fashoned with a very small hook in the end started scraping
out the valve. This took some time but before long the outlet was cleared of a large
amount of cotton (take a guess) and  was back on board. Closing the valve and loosing
the hose from the inside verified that the valve was closing thigtly (and thus wasn't
clogged) and allowed me to take a look to see if there was a clog upstream of the valve,
which there was none.

Not as messy a job an one may think because closing the valve as much as I could the
previous weekend compressed the cotton somewhat and before beginning I was able to 
pump a fair amount of water through the system before beginning.

Next time I'll have to give better instructions to my guests on how to use the head!

Michael
"Latitude"

    someone put one of those in the head!!!!  I have a sign that says,
    don't put anything in unless you have eaten it first.  sounds like I'm
    going to get a neon light for that.....
    
                     glad alls well...