Conference unifix::sailing

>    I'm interested in buying GPS based navigational software.  I've seen a
>    few packages advertised in SAIL, etc. and I'm wondering which ones are
>    the best value.
>
>    Since we cruise the Great Lakes, tidal information is unimportant.  A
>    number of packages seemed to have other bells and whistles that may not
>    be worth the extra dollars either.
>
>    Any advice and/or recommendations.  Also, where to go to get a good
>    price?!
>
    Humm.  I figured this sailing conference would have a bunch of
    participants who had some experience with navigational software -
    seeing as we all work for a computer company.

    Perhaps this gentle reply will spark some interrest.

    Thanks again!

    -Brad

    
    re .1
    
      Most of us work for the company, not own it. Most the packages are
    meant for an interface to a GPS and radar, and you ussally have serious
    battery power to have a PC on board. Then you need room to put these
    toys and use them. I know I don't have room in my 26 footer for a
    shower, never mind a nav station. Those size boats are just dreams
    to most of us as you can see by the whos who listing. To really use 
    such a device, you need to do a lot of long distance cruising. Alas
    the majority of us are "weekend warriors" never getting more that 1 or
    2 charts from home. This type of thing is pretty low on my list of
    upgrades.  As for software, I spend most my allowance for software on
    development packages. My chosen profession is systems work, not
    sailboat captain (Don't even ask if it was the right decision ;>)   ).
    
    
    And the old saying "the cobler's children have no shoes" might fit.
    
       john  
    (who lusts for a simple digital knotmeter)

    I used to have a vision of my autopilot and my Loran talking merrily
    away to each other as I simply did the sheets etc., however it was
    always a little far away, money and time-wise to make it happen.  Then
    I read an article in the West Marine Cat. that basically said "Why
    bother ?".  I reflected on their argument and decided "why bother".

    We have the autopilot interfaced to the Loran, GPS etc. And we don't
    bother...

    I only have two marginal responses to the "Why Bother" argument:

    1. For Fun - I get a kick out of computer software and the tricks it
       can do.

    2. For Real - Cruising Lake Michigan and the North Channel we often
       suffer from a lack of visibility.  Fog sometimes providing only about
       25 yards of visibility.  Such a tool would be very nice for getting in
       and out of anchorages and harbors in the really thick stuff. 

    Without Radar, we take our navigation very seriously in these waters.
    We build, and double check, our float plan carefully and pride
    ourselves in "knocking down buoys and lighthouses".  We use our GPS and
    Loran often to double check our progress (don't want to be late for the
    cocktail hour:-)).

    So navigation has become a very fun (and serious) part of our cruising.
    Since I already have a 386 notebook PC, all we need is some software
    and we'll have a moving map display to use in those tight spots and to
    quickly locate ourselves if there's ever a doubt.

    I haven't actually used any of this software which is why I put the
    question.  Maybe it's not really worth it.  But redundancy in such
    things is good too.

    If anyone has any experience, good, bad, or indifferent, please share!

    Thanks again

    -Brad

	I have thought about the "Why bother" arguement and
	have decided to do without radar, loran, depth guage and autopilot.
	Even a windex may be too much.

	I use ears for the sound of the waves and the sails, eyes for
	telltales. I pay attention to the charts and the tides.

	This is not for every purpose and for everyone - I quite often 
	sail alone. (With a guest on board I'm more cautious).

	I mostly do coastal cruising in the Penobscot/Mt Desert area 
	which is FULL of rocks, currents etc. Frequently I'm in fog.
	I then spend *all* my time looking where I'm going. Listening
	for sounds is vital so it is best to avoid motoring even
	in light wind. 

	To my view, this is what sailing is all about!

	Mike
	

    There was  an  article  written  in the local sailing rag, (48 North,
    August 1994), which  discussed the topic of Electronic Chart Systems.
    I don't have time  to  punch  the  whole  thing  in  but here are the
    highlights (IMHO)...
    
        Production and distribution of electronic  charts will be at full
        speed in six or seven months.  The most widely used versions  are
        produced by Resolution Mapping of Lexington, Mass.
    
        NOAA has  signed  a  contract with the Better Boating Association
        (BBA) to distribute  the  entire  NOAA  chart  catalog, including
        bathametric charts, first on floppy disk and then on CD-ROM.  NOM
        will  scan  the chart from  the  mylar  original,  and  send  the
        electonic information to BBA for distribution
    
        You will be able to purchase an electronic  chart  for  the  same
        price, or very close to the price of a paper chart.
    
    The Charting  programs  discussed were the two from the Maptec  Line;
    'The Pilot', for $290 list and 'The Professional for $1190 list, both
    from Resulution  Mapping.    The  Professional will let you store 100
    routes of 100  waypoints each, leave 10,000 track marks showing exact
    passage through the water,  and  place  10,000  event marks to locate
    special  places.  The Pilot  is  a  much-abbreviated  little  brother
    limiting you to two routes of 20 waypoints each.
    
    The third program  is  produced  by  Nautical Technologies of Bangor,
    Maine and is call  Computerized  American Practical Navigator, or The
    Cap'n for short.  This  is  true  Windows  based  and  will work with
    charts  from Resolution Mapping after a  conversion  process  and  is
    poised to make direct use of charts  in  the format NOM has chosen to
    use.    The  Cap'n  has  other  goodies  like   tides  and  currents,
    maintenance and inventory logbooks, etc.  No price was mentioned.
    
    Another program you may want to check out is the shareware version of
    MAPIT.  It's available on the Internet, (just  search  for MAPIT).  I
    got my copy from TRINTY::PD1:[MSDOS.MAPPING]MAPIT14*.* This is a demo
    version, but if you like it, you can send money  to the author to get
    the real thing.  
    
    MAPIT can record NMEA stuff from your GPS  or  LORAN  and  then LATER
    plot this information on a detailed map.  The  problem  with MAPIT is
    that it is not a real time display of what  you  might  be  about  to
    crash  into  while your fooling around with the program.  The  second
    issue is that it REQUIRES a mouse, so if you have a  320p  with  only
    one serial  port,  you'll  have problems mousing and recording at the
    same time.
    
    Personally,  I  like  the  idea  of  being  able  to  upload/download
    waypoint,  route and track information between a laptop and  my  GPS.
    One reason for this is I have blown away all  waypoints  in my Garmin
    more than once, (Delete All Waypoints is a default on one screen, and
    it really works!!!).  This would also let me use a real  keyboard and
    editor  to  input information and possibly assign real names to the 6
    character waypoints that Garmin (and others) use.
    
    So far, I haven't found anything that will do I want.  It seems to me
    that this stuff  is  relatively  new from the consumers point of view
    and this is a  good  time  to hone your other sailing skills and wait
    for better products to come out.
    
    Andy

    
    Andy,

    Thanks for the information.  It supports what I've seen in SAIL and
    other mags.

    I was at the EAA Fly-in a week ago and saw a couple more packages.  The
    standout was VISTA which works with .PCX and .GIF images (usually
    scanned in).  Interesting twist.  The price was $388.  That's a little
    stiff yet I think - if we could get .GIF charts from NOAA off the
    Internet it'd be nice support for this system.

    In any case, I agree with your assesment that it's a little early yet.
    I'll shop more at the winter boat shows and see what comes of the
    industry.
    
    If anyone else has any new information, please share.

    Thanks

    -Brad

    P.S.
    As any sailer would be, I'm a little taken aback by some comments in
    this thread about the need for "real" navigation skills.  I will 100%
    agree that you must not totally rely on electronics for navigation.
    Over the 20 years I've spent on the water, the greatest pride is found
    by using dead reckoning techniques to find bouys and harbors.  Course
    and speed is THE fundimental.

    I look at these software packages in two ways:
        1. Another redundant system.
        2. A kind of AAA trip-tik that is fun to play with.

    We always set up our course based on dead reckoning and then will
    double check with our other systems.  You know, your GPS and/or LORAN
    can break at the best/worst times.

    Anyway...I feel better now...

    I too would like to transfer data from my Garmin GPS to my PC and
    vica-versa.  When Garmin updated my unit SW, they provided a printout
    of the waypoints they had saved to PC.  Unfortunately, I had to put
    them all back in manually.
    
    Surely it cannot be too hard to do some code to make this happen.  
    

    Your  right,  it  SHOULDN'T be too difficult to move information from
    Garmin to  PC's,  but  since  Garmin  uses a proprietary protocol for
    these transfers, it's not as easy as it sounds.  For that matter, I'm
    not sure that NMEA has an industry standard for this stuff yet.
    
    I banged my head against the  Garmin  protocol for awhile, but had no
    success, so I eventually  bought  their  PCX5  software  to move this
    stuff around.  
    
    The PCX5 is a good package for managing  and  keeping  a  backup of a
    large  number  of  waypoints.    I've  found  its  editor  is  a  bit
    cumbersome, as  it  wants  lots  of  pointing  and  clicking to get a
    waypoint in.  I got around that by writing some code that will take a
    text file of waypoints and  put it into a format that Garmin is happy
    with.
    
    RE .9 - I'm surprised Garmin didn't save your waypoints with PCX5 and
    then reload them.  THAT should have been REALLY easy.

    Get a copy of the latest Practical Sailor for a rundown on how far
    the industry has gotten. It is getting cheaper every day.
    
    
       john