Conference unifix::sailing

re .0:

Many if not most of the questions you've asked have been previously 
discussed in SAILING. Please see Notes 3.x for directories-by-keyword. 
These will point you to many of the discussions.

The Moderator

    You ask a good question, one I have asked myself over and over. 
    Ownership vs club use vs crewing.  Here are my findings.
    
    Ownership:
    
    	To own a cruising sailboat, I would have to meet the following:
    
    		a. Have enough money to support the costs
    		b. Have enough time to justify ownership
    		c. Have a spouse that also loved it
    		d. Live close enough to the boat so the hassle factor
    		   (driving to the boat) is not greater than the fun
    		   factor (sailing)
    
    Club Use:  ( I have been in 4 of them)
    
    		You get:
    
    		a. All the pleasures of access/ownership
    		b. Multiple boats (sizes, styles, etc.) to use
    		c. No maintenance costs and headaches
    		d. No financial burdens of ownership
    		e. Practically worry-free sailing
    
    Crewing:
    	
    		You get:
    
    		a. Absolutely free sailing
    		b. Multiple boats to crew on
    		c. Multiple sailing areas
    		
    		You don't get:
    
    		a. to go where you want to go
    		b. sail as long/short a day as you want to sail
    		c. over-ride decisions made by stupid or uninformed
   		   skippers
    		
    The outcome of my clubbing and crewing is that I have discovered what
    boats I would not want to buy, where I don't want to sail, and types of
    sailors to avoid.  I have done a lot of sailing without spending a lot
    of money, learned a lot of different skills from different skippers and
    have not worried about boat theft, grounding damage, hurricanes, sail
    wear, pumping out holding tanks, tempermental diesels, replacing
    dodgers, gelcoat blistering, etc.
    
    Remember this adage:  The two happiest days in a sailors life are the
    day he buys a boat and the day he sells it.
    
    Paul
    
    PS  Don't misconstrue the above.  I love sailing and have been doing it
    since I was 8.  It just happens that sailing the bigger boats takes
    time and/or money, which with 2 kids in college I have neither of.
                                 

    Don't forget chartering.  It's as good a way as I know of, besides
    crewing, to learn.  You also find out what it feels like to be
    RESPONSIBLE for that boat and its crew - it is a very different feeling
    from having someone else in charge, even if they are incompetent - and 
    you'll get some idea of how well you and your spouse function on a boat
    (no joke).  No to mention the kids.  You can do pretty well for around
    $1,000 for a week - and if that seems expensive, forget about buying
    one.
    
    Even if you decide to buy, I would strongly advise that you charter for
    a couple of times before investing in a boat.  We are building a boat
    and have chartered or have had the loan of various boats over several
    years.  We've learned a great deal about what we want and don't want,
    need and don't need, and have rejected some earlier ideas we had after
    trying them out on another person's boat.  We've also taken advantage
    of some neat ideas and tried out some great equipment.
    
    I think there is a whole note on kids.  We have taken my stepdaughter
    ever since she was five.  She was bored with sailing itself until she
    was about 12 or so, looking forward to anchoring so she could swim and
    row and go ashore.  It's hard for little kids to feel the thrill of a
    big boat; the scale is all wrong.  But she liked coming along,
    snuggling into her sleeping bag, and reading on deck, fishing, watching
    the birds, etc.
    
    After 12 she became helpful and soon became a tremendous asset (she is
    19).  Now, however, she has a busy life of her own and hardly ever can
    come with us.
    
    Since ours is not finished, I can't report on the difference between
    that and chartering, except that one can cancel out at the last minute
    if something comes up or the weather is inclement.  We are looking
    forward to it.
    
     Lois
    
    PS - There is also the issue important, spouse-related issue that
    sometimes comes up of never doing anything else during the summer, like
    travel, because one has the boat.....
    

    
    	From the ownershp club: The travel bit is wrong; I travel a LOT
    more on the boat than I ever did in the car- I mean, Holiday Inn with
    screaming kids/couples next door vs. small waves rocking you to sleep?
    The spouse thing; well how much do you WANT to give up for that person,
    vs. selecting another sailor to marry? Anyway, I'll come up with as
    many good as bad reasons for buying a boat, sports car, motorcycle, or
    anything that impacts lifestyle. You only get to do so much in the
    years that you're given. (WOW borderline Marine Theology)
    
    	BTW, like a drinker of Michelob, I try to `have it all'; I skipper,
    crew, race in the Courageous Center club races, fool around in the
    yacht club Turnabouts, windsurf, cruise, fish... if it's on the water,
    I like it! But one thing I like is having control of the maintenance of
    my boat; the sails and hardware are up to MY expectations, not to
    someone's with budget constraints of many boats/many customers.
    
    	I'll certainly second all the advice in previous replies; club,
    charter, crew. It'll tune you in to what you like, should you choose to
    shell out the big smackeroos.
    
    	2 extra `happy' days, too!
    
    	Scott_who_has_to_jump_into_Boston_water_and_scrub_the_bottom
    
    ps don't forget... skippers may be stupid, but they're NEVER wrong!
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    re: last few
    
    Thanks for the advice.  
    
    What do you folks own or sail now?  What do you look for in a sailboat? 
    Would you trade cabin space for cockpit space for daysailing?  Which
    boats have you enjoyed sailing the most?  If I want to buy a first
    boat, what would be a good starter boat?  
    
    Capri 22, Catalina 25, O'Day 25, J-24, Hunter 25?  Other than the J-24
    and Catalina 25, I've not sailed on the others.
    
    If you could buy your dream boat today (less than 30', less than $20K,
    less than $10K), what would you buy?
    
    Thanks,
    David

    MY DREAM BOAT:
    
    AFter sailing for 35+ years in everything from a Snark to 40+ footer, I
    would definitely chose a multi-hull.  Why?
    
    Fast, safe (unsinkable), roomy, stable (low on sea sickness), no keel,
    can go most anywhere, trailerable (smaller ones).  
    
    I am told that multis are where all the excitement of sailing is. -
    from Gary Hoyt.
    
    Paul

    Multihulls are VERY stable, right side up, OR capsized.  I certainly
    wouldn't take a multihull in the Southern Ocean.