Conference unifix::sailing

    I did not think that the 14' had a trap. I thought the 16' had/has a
    single trap with a jib and the 18' has the double trap?? Have you
    considered a 505? (Speed, double trap, easily manageable in and out of
    the water, easily rightable, light, and besides the windserfers, last I
    knew, the 505 was the fastest sail monohull on record.
    
    Steve  

    
    Who makes the 505, and are they generally available?
    
    Re: single or dual traps.  Don't know what's on the 14 we looked at.
    For all I know at this point, they don't make them at all!  That's why
    I'm askin' questions!  ;^)
    
    Forgot to mention:  We live on a tidal river near Sandy Hook, NJ.  This
    leads not only to another tidal river, but also out to Sandy Hook Bay
    and thence to the Atlantic.  Most of the sailing will either be in this
    river, or else we will tow it to some inland lakes that I like to
    visit.
    
    Bob
    

    
    Well, we've managed to answer most of our own questions by some
    constructive schmoozing of the locals.
    
    We found a Hobie fleet nearby, on the Raritan Bay, and they have over
    300 Hobies, Prindles, etc., stored there.  It turns out that the Hobie
    14 would probably not be suitable for us, and rather than going with
    the "racy" 17, probably will settle into the seemingly more versatile
    Hobie 16.
    
    We're planning on going back to the club on Saturday to schmooze up
    some of the members, looking forlorne until someone gives us a ride or
    two.  And after pulling the long note from this conference, we're armed
    with a good idea of what to look for in a used boat.
    
    Bob
    

    	I'm not a multihull sailor, but here are some impressions I've
    gotten and things I've heard. 
    	I sailed on a cat one day, the thing was wicked! It was a hobie 16
    and it was obvious in aminute that the max. speed was, on this
    particular boat, was reached due to the rudders, auible hum. It is my 
    understanding the aftermarket blades are availible and faired better
    for high speed. I ptich poled it that boat going up wind in 3-4 foot
    seas. You have never capsized so fast and dramtically in a monohull 
    as you can when pitch poling. We, three of us, needed help righting the
    boat, but we were all inexperienced in catamaran sailing, I know I
    didn't have the technique. After that I was told by an experienced cat
    sailor, that it doesn't take long to learn how to keep you bow up and
    avoid this and also that the Hobie 18 and up have more buoyancey in the 
    forward and are less likely to pitch pole. 
    	This year Sailing World's Boat of the Year award in multihulls went
    to the Hobie sport cruiser. If I remember this boat is built on the 
    20' hulls with a norrower beam to be trailerable without having to
    dismount the hulls. It also offered a storage locker which I think
    included a cooler, as a central cross beam. I don't remember all the
    details off hand, but after reading about the boat I thought that if I 
    had found that boat when I was looking for the boat I have now, I might
    well have ended up with it. But now that I've slept inside my boat and
    raced a medium-large monohull over night I either want a monohull in
    the thirty foot range or one of the foldable trimarans that are way
    beyond my fathomable price range. I've gotten to like sleeping on my
    boat and find the idea of higher current power generation to recharge
    my indespensible batteries a very attractive feature. 
    
    
    	But this weekend I'll sail to Cuttyhunk on my 22' mono, sleep and
    cook on board, be very happy and really feel like this weekend is a
    vacation.
    	Also, without an SO, no reason to believe there is much of a chance
    of one and no reliable crew, the ability to singlehand my boat is of
    utmost importance. (There's this 45' Frerrs, rigged for short handed
    racing, cruisy below, on the shopping list right after I win a real big
    megabucks jackpot. :-))
    
    Geoff

    
    Well, a lot can happen in only a couple of days.
    
    Based on information in this conference and the advice of others, we
    steered away from the Hobie 14 as quickly as we were attracted to it.
    Since Susan and I will probably be out a lot together, the 14 just
    looked like a waste of time and money.
    
    Then we found a large, very local cat fleet - Fleet 250 at Sandy Hook
    Bay in New Jersey - and pretty much spent the holiday weekend there!
    We found that most of the people were friendly, casual, fun, and more
    than willing to answer our questions.  Standing there with a forlorne
    look on our faces, we were able to not only bum a couple of crew rides
    after the wind came up, but also took out a member's 16 (in lighter
    winds) without problems or incidents.
    
    We're hooked!  After a couple of too-much-fun wire rides in 10-12
    knots, we just figured that we had to get our own! 
    
    And we're probably buying a 16 this afternoon, if all
    goes well.  We've been looking at a ton of 16s in the area for the past
    many days, but most of them are pretty dogged out.  Then, at the fleet,
    we found an '87 Stars&Stripes 16 that's been raced quite a bit.  The
    guy isn't known for being gentle on his boats while racing, but he also
    doesn't drag them over the sand as much as most people seem to.  The
    boat's well-rigged with 6:1 Harkens, dual traps, travellers, etc., and
    the hulls/tramp/rigging are all in great shape, so it looks like a good
    deal for $2200-$2500.  Maybe we'll even have him throw in the Trailex
    for a steal.
    
    Any comments on the Stars&Stripes edition?  Save for a small crease in
    the mast track on high, we can't see any good reasons NOT to buy the
    beast...  (the current owner will "warranty" the track.)
    
    Bob
    

    Looks like you are on the right track. The 14 was way too small for what
    you wanted to do. It does not have the frontal floation you need to
    keep from augering in.
    
    the new hobie camping cat is a remake of the 21. It has a small mast,
    a tramp box and  pup tent. Who really needs it??? I hear they are
    selling but I am not sure why. I is very heavy for a beach cat, and
    still complex even if you do not have to expand/contract the crossbars.
    
    A 16 is a wonderful starter boat. It will retain it's value if and when
    you are ready to move up. The only issue about the stars and stripes is
    if you trash a hull, It is going to be REAL expense if repair if you
    want the gel coat to match. It would be cheaper to fix it and then
    paint the boat (there is a note on this here somewhere). 
    
    Please check out the 3.x note on multihulls. I have written several
    notes on how to inspect a hobie 16. The main thing is that the pylons
    are still tight and the mast is straight. A good trick is to get a
    racer from one of the  other fleets that doesn't know the seller to
    take a look for you. It can even be a 18/17/20/21 racer as most bigger
    hobie racers cut their teeth on 16s.
    
    Have fun with the Hobie life. I enjoy my monohull and the folks that
    I sail with. But the gang I hung out with with Hobie was one great
    bunch of folks that knew how to have fun on the water and off. Beach
    parties blow away any formal dinner dance stuff. 
    
       Regards
    
        john
    
    Still depressed about the double trapped Tornado that blew by me
    Saturday on my mono hull.

    
    john
    
    Yeah, we already got a taste of the beachparty life down at the fleet. 
    They held a rum party, with band, with food, starting at about 4pm on
    Saturday.  We sat on the edge of the water and watched the fireworks
    all across Manhatten, Staten Island, and Long Island...about 25
    displays were visible!  (At least I *think* they were fireworks...I
    started going blind shortly after that point.)
    
    I appreciate your comment about matching the hull paint, and it was an
    issue that I hadn't even considered before, but it makes perfect sense. 
    On the other hand, though, if we trash a hull enough to warrant that
    kind of large scale repair, we're probably looking at a major job
    anyway, so paint color would probably be the least of our worries.
    
    One other thing that I think is good about the fleet...I was asking
    about the ability of one 175# person popping a 16 from a flip, and most
    of the people I talked to said that it probably couldn't be done.  But
    they went on to say that most of the fleet people keep an eye on each
    other, and are quick to help out in the event of a flip.  Nice to know
    they're out there...
    
    BTW, as I mentioned, there is a small crease across the back of the
    mast, way on high in the area of the new comp tip.  The owner said that
    he hasn't had the sail pop out at all, but I also wonder about the
    structural integrity of the mast in that area.  Big deal?  Or not?
    And about how much would it cost to replace just the track in that
    area?  (The for'd part of the mast is in fine shape, it's just the
    tracks that are a bit bent.)
    
    Bob
    
    PS: John, I read and printed your buying suggestions.  That's why we're
    lookin' so smart on these sellers...  ;^)

    re .7
    
      one 175 lb person is right at the limit (I believe they say 180 lbs).
    You can always buy a canvas water bucket that hooks onto the upper hull
    and adds 70 lbs of weight. I know of a cat sailor who was allows to 
    sail her parent 16 at age 12 alone provided she had the bucket with
    her. She told me she could right it herself.
    
      The trick is in the balance and getting all the sheets loose so they 
    let go of the water. The conditions have a lot to do with it to. I
    flipped a 16 off Aruba last year and it was howling outside. With my
    225 lbs, that boat was not coming up and I knew what I was doing. A
    hand from a passing boater on the mast and I was all set. Probably
    didn't  belong out there in that wind alone, but it sure was fun!!!
    
    If the mast ding is in the comp-tip section of the mast (ie the
    fibreglas part), all those parts are replaceable. I will check my
    pricing guide when I get home tonight.
    
    Phil Berens has an excellent book, the Hobie 16 Performance book. It is
    a paperback text book that will give you all kinds of insight into the
    16 from how to buy one, rigging, points of sail and conditions,
    trailering and racing. It was out of print for a while, but I think
    they did another batch last year. Great book. Chances are someone in
    the fleet has one. Phil also has a generic Hobie Cat book that is very
    good.
    
    The Jack Salmom books (welcome to b fleet and welcome to a fleet) are
    good, but you really need to sail a cat for a year or so as they are 
    advanced books.
    

    The racers know these boats like back of their hands and once you
    become friends, are tremendously helpful is teaching you how to use
    your boat. You can even crew for these guys and learn a ton about
    operating a cat.
    
    From where you are racing, there is guy down there with a Hobie 18
    (white with a black stripe) that is very very good. Ussally wins the
    division races in your neck of the woods. His name excapes me right
    but is a German sur-name if I remember correctly (Scheinder or
    something to that effect). I believe he sails out of a yacht club
    on Barregett bay. He can really tell you a great deal about boat setup
    as he has been racing for years. If you find him, ask him about the
    waves at the 18 Nationals at Daytona Beach 2 years ago. This month's
    Hotline uses a lot of the photos from that regetta. The first day saw
    15 foot waves coming on shore with only 3-5 knots of winds to get
    through them. The beach was so shallow you could not lock down rudders
    for steering. You basically worked the boat for any speed and tried to
    time the wave sets to be able to get some momentum as you got wailed going
    through. A couple of boats flipped over backwards and snapped masts.
    Your local came back complaining of chest pains and they took him off
    to the hospital for EKG.
    
      john

    
    Ever hear of a guy from New Jersey - Hobie Fleet 250 - named 
    Dan Kulkoski?  Apparently, he's quite the racer, and has a 
    cool job where he gets most of the summer off (not unlike DEC
    these days!)
    
    He sold us the Stars & Stripes 16 yesterday, so Susan and I are
    the proud owners of a new cat!  The commodore and security officer
    of the fleet - very helpful guys - agreed that it was a good purchase.
    Harken gear all 'round, dual traps, black rudders, a few extras thrown
    in here and there, and we even negotiated for a couple of lessons from
    Dan.
    
    Sigh...and I thought I was done with large purchases for the year.
    
    Bob
    

    Congratulations
    
       I am sure you will have a very good time on the boat. I believe
    the 16 Nationals are coming up in your area. You could enter the
    race (if you don't make the cut, you still can race in the silver
    fleet), or just hang around and help the racers. You will be amazed
    how much you can pick up in a day or so of helping to drag boats or
    turning a screwdriver.
    
      Pick up a good book or two, read the notes lots of folks have written
    here, and most importantly take the bloody beast out and have some fun.
    
       john

    
    Thanks, John, for your help and insight, and to all those noters who
    have bought before us.
    
    We met up with Kulkoski last night for a riggin' lesson.  Apparently,
    since he's raced the boat extensively, there are a few unique things
    about the rigging.  Nothing all that complicated, just different than
    on some stock 16s.
    
    Then we hit the water in light breezes (just fine for me, at this
    point.)  The most "painful" part was dragging the hulls in the sand for
    the 15 feet or so necessary to put in.  First scratch syndrome, I
    guess...we'll use the wheels from here on out, I'm sure.  We managed a
    nice reach over to Horseshoe Cove, about 4 miles away, but then had to
    make a weather shore back to the club as the wind started dropping off. 
    Not a lot of fun, but some of the fleet's principles "just happened to
    be puttering around" in a motorboat, and stopped to see if we were
    okay.
    
    Pride wouldn't let me accept a tow, so we just sheeted in a bit and
    close-hauled like hell to make the beach in 3 more tacks.
    
    So, yes, we had fun, although it wasn't anything near ripper.  We're
    delighted with the boat, although we're making mental checklists of all
    the little things that we want to do...strip off the other guys
    lettering...remouse the shrouds...quickpins here and there...it'll all
    fall into place.
    
    But we're using a whole new set of muscles, and I feel paralyzed from
    the neck to the waist!
    
    Bob