Conference unifix::sailing

re .0:

>>> The direct route (a modified great circle) is just over 2800nm 
>>> and should take about 28 days.  

I took a brief look at "The Atlantic Crossing Guide" last night. It 
discusses three strategies for a summer crossing from the northeast US 
to England.

The most direct, and shortest, route is along the Nova Scotia and 
Newfoundland coasts (staying well away from Sable Island) and thence via
great circle to Merrye Olde England. This route crosses the Grand Banks
and is well north of the southern limit of drifting icebergs, so it
likely to be foggy and cold. It is also the main shipping route. Given 
the winter we've just survived in New England, I'd have a discussion 
with the Coast Guard iceberg folks before choosing this route. You might 
also plot this route on a pilot chart. It may cross the big area where
rough seas are fairly likely. 

The second route is to head a little south of east to Latitude 40 deg N 
and Longitude 50 deg W and thence via great circle to an English port. 
This route is about 200 miles longer, skirts the southern end of the 
Grand Banks, is mostly out of the shipping lanes, and is mostly south of 
the southern iceberg limit. This is the one I would choose. Favorable 
currents and winds, too.

The third route is to go still further south and east before heading 
north. Nothing really to recommend this route. 

>>> This leaves me looking for 3 crew (with passage making 
>>> experience) to help sail from Boston to Poole.

Based on my experience sailing to Bermuda and back on a 32' boat with 
four crew, I'd do the trip with only three aboard (or even just two).
Four crew will be very crowded, especially once you've stowed food,
clothing, and other supplies for 45 to 60 days. We took food for 15 days
to Bermuda, and finding stowage for another 30 to 45 days of food would
have been difficult. I would have done the Bermuda trip with a crew of
three, but my insurance company insisted on four. Living in a very small 
space with three other people for a month might be very wearing mentally 
and even physically. 

Just some thoughts,

Alan

    Take Alan's first course, most do.  The great circle route brings you
    close enough to St. John's that you can do your last outfitting here
    (I'll even give you a doz. home brew to get you started).
    
    I would guess that in anything but an extraordinary year that the ice
    will be gone by the middle of July.  We were expecting a lot of ice
    this year and the first bergs came down in December Vs. April/May but
    since then the ice has receeded quite a bit.
    
    I would be happy to help with Ice conditions etc. and will be making a
    similar leg from Halifax to St. John's in May.  I'd love to do the
    piece that goes over the Atlantic but it won't be this year.  A friend
    did St. John's to Ireland in 11-12 days last year on a Bowman 36 and
    just sat on the edge of the Gulf Stream.
    
    If I can help, please let me know.
    
    
    

re .2:

Sorry, it is not at all clear to me that the more northerly route is the
"best" one. Take a careful look at the July Pilot Chart. Some of the
print is small enough that a magnifying glass is helpful. 

There is a small chart off to the side showing mean air and water 
temperatures. On the northerly route mean air and water temperatures 
are 12 to 16 deg C (54 to 61 deg F). (This is about the same mean air 
temperature and somewhat colder water than the Gulf of Maine in July, 
and I have been uncomfortably cold many a night on the Gulf of Maine.)
Nights will likely be cold. It is one thing to be cold for one night. It 
is quite another to be cold for a month of nights. By contrast, the mean 
air and water temperatures are roughly 16 to 22 deg C (61 to 72 def F) 
on the more southerly route. This is significantly warmer. 

The more northerly route is also the usual path of the extratropical 
cyclones, ie, the usual path of nasty weather. The more northerly route 
passes just south of an area where waves greater than 12 feet are likely 
10% or more of the time. Gales are also rather less likely on the more 
southern route. 

The more northern route appears to be in the middle of the shipping 
lanes. Good if you need assistance, but it does have drawbacks, like an 
increased chance of a collision with a ship. And icebergs, for that 
matter. 'Tis one thing to avoid icebergs and such when you have radar 
and a thick steel hull. It is quite another when you don't have radar 
and are aboard the rough equivalent of a large ship's lifeboat.

I'm sure some passages on the northern route are quite pleasant. I'm 
equally sure that some are quite unpleasant. Some years ago my 
mother-in-law gave me a (probably privately printed) little book
recounting a passage from Woods Hole to Scotland on the more southerly
route. The boat was a 38' sloop. I suspect that she gave me the book in
the hopes of discouraging me from taking her daughter on the same trip
as the passage described was far from comfortable and enjoyable. In
fact, it was downright miserable. 

Sometimes the goddess of fortune smiles, sometimes she doesn't. 

Alan

    Re. -1
    
    If cold was the issue (for me at any rate) I would not be sitting 
    where I am right now so I dont really buy the temp thing although I do
    recognize that it might be important to some.
    
    With regard to "best" well, any trip that allowed one to have an
    adventure (perhaps of a lifetime) and also visit Newfoundland (let
    alone the offer of some of my home brew) .... that would have to be
    classified as best wouldn't it ?
    
    But seriously though I guess that I have no measure of the number of
    craft choosing either route, but we do see a big bunch of
    trans-atlantic vessels here every year.  I am not at all sure that you
    would find particularly "bad" sea conditions on the Grand Banks for
    example ... I think the Atlantic can be bad all over ... the Great
    Circle route is routinely chosen as the preferred course in the
    Trans-Atlantic races (and Mike Plant) so it must be quick.
    
    
    
    

I had a look at "The Atlantic Crossing Guide" for my initial 
planning.  The difference in distance between the two routes 
(coast or south end of Grand Banks) is small.  The 'modification' 
I had in mind was to cut the corner of the second route by 
staying on an Easterly course to the Grand Banks and then 
heading up on the great circle.  I think I will pass on the 
liquid (and other) attractions of Canada this time!  

My PC program reckons that the middle route would be 2945nm port 
to port.  The "Guide" suggests not going as far south as 40N, so 
43N should be OK -- increased traffic is the penalty, and you do 
still have to be wary of ice.

The Canadian Coastguard do have regular iceberg reports based on 
sightings.  Does anyone know if there are any reports based on 
satellite tracking?


On the question of size of crew  -  I too had insurance companies 
requiring a crew of 4!  The company I am going with understood 
cruising (and the Vancouver) a lot better.  They would have 
covered us for just two (they didn't even consider my son a 
liability), but did 'suggest' four.

The Vancouver is beamy and has good stowage space.  Three crew 
are more than sufficient to handle her and I would be comfortable 
with that.  Four would make things easier especially if the fourth 
was an experienced cook, and would potentially keep the insurance 
company happier.

    Coast Guard use local observations, reports from all vessels in the
    area plus Satelites and observations made by both Ice Operations
    Aircraft and the Fisheries Patrol Aircraft.
    
    They publish on a daily basis the chart indicating areas of bergs ...
    they will not give specific locations of bergs because of drift etc.
    
    In July, in a normal year, the pack should be gone, however Ice
    operations here are not yet willing to say that this will be a normal
    year so stay tuned and I will let you know how the ice developes and
    recedes.

re .5:

Which insurance company was willing to insure you for only two crew? 

Thanks,

Alan

    There is a station in Nova Scotia that broadcasts ice charts on HF twice
    daily in weather FAX format. If you're interested I'll get the frequency to
    tune and the schedule.

    Since I'm from Groton, Connecticut I took special notice of a recent
    article indicating that the U.S. Coast Guard iceberg tracking center is
    now located in Groton. You could call or write them for advice. Long
    distance information has them listed under U.S. Coast Guard,
    International Ice Patrol.

    - Bob

    What is your motivation ?
    
    Fun (sailing) or adventure or to save money ?
    
    
    Peter

    My name is Bill Baker.  I may be able to make the trip (wife dependent)
    please call me at DTN 297 9260 or 603 672 4507.
    I have done a lot of blue water sailing on the China Sea and would love
    to cross the Atlantic (side to side not top to bottom).  As to being
    crowded on a 32 foot boat - if you run two persons on watch at night it
    makes the trip more pleasent and gives the off watch crew better rest. 
    Not to mention you don't have to call below everytime something strange
    happens (and it will on trip this long) My experience is that a well
    rested crew can handle any emergency.  I have all my own offshore kit,
    a good sense of humor and i don't panic.  Remember as long as the sun
    sets in the East nothing can go wrong.
    

re .7:  Pantaenius UK Ltd.
        (he was more influenced by the boat than the crew!)

re .6.8.9:  Thanks for the information.  On closer reading of the 
current "Ocean Voyager" I got more on the fax etc data transmitted
from Halifax.  They do include iceberg information from satellite 
observations.

re .10:  all three!?  
I bought a blue water boat to go places.  Work and the family have 
not made that possible yet.  We have been restricted to a few hundred 
miles around our base.  The longest leg we managed while here was from 
Cape Cod Canal to Yarmouth!

Crossing the Atlantic is necessary since she is here and we need her 
there!  I could ship her freight, give her to a delivery crew, or sail 
myself.  Circumstances (the middle of winter) forced me to ship her 
here disguised as a container.  The return trip is "fun (sailing)" so 
I am doing this one myself!

According to a brief article in the latest Ocean Navigator, this is the 
worst year for icebergs in a long, long time. Three large commercial ships 
have been damaged this spring by hitting bergs, and ice has been seen as
far south as 40 deg N lat and as far east as 37 deg W long. The Coast
Guard does not track individual bergs. Rather, they just try to define
the area in which bergs may be present. The smaller bergs are very
difficult to see on radar, especially in moderate to rough weather.
These bergy  bits are still big enough to sink a yacht.