Conference unifix::sailing

After a quick look at the atlas in the Spit Brook library, I'd guess
that it is very roughly 3000 sea miles from Maine to Houston. At 60
miles per day (12 hours per day at 5 knots) the trip would take 50 days.
But, IMHO and experience, 60 miles per day is unrealistically optimistic
when you consider grocery shopping, fuel stops, looking for anchorages,
repairs, and, most especially, delays from bad weather. More realistic,
but likely still optimistic, would be an average of 40 miles per day,
which would make the trip 75 days. 100 miles per day when non-stop
sailing would be a very high average on a 26' boat over a long passage. 

Some friends of ours have made the trip between Maine and Florida 
several times. As I recall, they allow at least a month for the trip. 
The ICW is narrow enough that sailing is difficult in many places, and a 
good engine is essential.

Personally, I find the necessity of having to maintain a high daily
average mileage unpleasant, tiring, and stressful. Worse, the necessity 
to keep to a schedule often results in taking unnecessary risks. Unless 
I had at least three months for this trip, I'd not even consider making 
it. 

Have you considered having your boat trucked to Houston?

Alan

    Alan,
    
    Holy Molly!  That's a long trip!  3,000 miles?  That's too much even
    for someone as crazy as me for the time we have (a month).
    
    What are the best ways to truck the Pearson?  I hope you have an answer
    that includes our doing the trucking rather than our hiring a
    professional hauler.  I have a funny feeling you won't though.  Gees,
    the thoughts of not sailing anymore are a real bummer.
    
    Also, I wonder what the waters around Houston are like and what the
    sailing is like.  Maybe I should bring my 15 foot O'Day and find some
    fresh water if there is any around Dallas, which is where we're
    relocating to for Digital.
    
    Any ideas on this will be appreciated.
    
    Maybe I should let people rent our boat in Maine or sell it (the market
    sure isn't too good to sell it!) and then we could maybe buy a new
    bigger boat, say in Florida on the west coast or bay side, and sail it
    to Houston.
    
    	Regards,
    
    	Ron
    

    Trucking your Pearson could be very problematic or it could be only a
    big pain.  A professional trucker would likely cost a whole lot.  But,
    the yellow pages likely has listings to try.
    
    How heavy is it?  What is the beam?  Do you have a trailer for it?  Do
    you have a vehicle which could pull it close to 2000 land miles?  
    Fixed keel or swing keel?  On a cradle?   How long is the mast?
    
    I have a small 29 foot boat.  A C+C 29-2.  It has a beam of 9'4" or
    9'6", depending on whether I read my PHRF certificate or my Coast Gaurd
    documentation papers.  Either way, the trucking company which hauls my
    boat from Marblehead to Lancaster Ma gets a wide load permit everytime
    they move me.  What's the beam on your boat?
    
    I'm pretty sure each state has their own regulations on what
    constitutes a "wide load."  Or an "oversize load."  The trucker who
    hauled me last Spring mentioned a hassle he had had in another state. 
    His sign said "wide load"  when it should have said "oversize load."  That 
    cost him time and money.  
    
    The permit the trucker gets specifies what roads he will be travelling
    on from Marblehead to Lancaster.    If you require permits, you'll probably
    have to know what dates you'll be using what roads, in what state.  It may 
    be you won't need any permits.  Just a big truck and trailer.
    
    My boat is not an ultralight, but it is fairly light.  It weights
    around 7000#.  With a trailer, that would be a big load to haul for
    very long without a very heavy duty tow vehicle.  If you have a cast
    iron keel, your boat may be quite a bit lighter than mine.
    
    Will your boat insurance policy cover trucking by a non-commerical
    operation?
    
    The job is probably very doable.  But, would it cost you more time and
    money to do the hauling than if you tried to sell your boat in Maine,
    and then buy a similar boat down in Texas?
    
    You asked about renting the boat in Maine.  Back to insurance questions
    probably.  And, then you'd need somebody to care for it during the
    off-season, and ensure maintenance got taken care of.
    
    Is the boat market in Texas any better than it is in New England?  The
    cost of getting out of one boat here, and buying a comparable one down
    there may not be all that awful.  
    
    djc
    
    

Call U-haul and Ryder and ask 'em if they rent flatbed trucks one-way. If they
do, get a good sturdy cradle (you should be able to find a used one for
$100-$200) and GO FOR IT. Get a boat hauler's advice on securing the cradle and
boat to the truck bed. You'll probably need some good nylon straps for this. 

I'd guess that your 26' boat is not a wide load, but you'll need to
verify this.

Don't attempt this if you're not the self-reliant type, or not willing to
shoulder the financial risk. You'll have trouble getting anyone to insure the
boat for overland sailing :-). There are non-trivial risks associated with this.
For example, you'll need to measure the height of the vehicle and pay religious
attention to vehicle height limits along a 1500 mile route. (The so-called
"professional" driver who brought my boat out here from Lake Superior in 1979
missed one of these subtleties, and did $1000 damage to my mast top.) 

--RS

P.S. Alternatively, you may be able to find a freighter that can take
your boat down there by sea. This may be cheaper than hiring somebody
to take it overland by truck.

yet another possibility:

Truck it to the Ohio river and do the Huck Finn bit, all the way to
the sea. This'll cut your water miles to ~2000 or so, and give you
a 1-2 knot favorable current. (You'll need to do the trip under
power, since many bridges won't be high enough to clear your mast.)

--RS

RE: .1 by UNIFIX::BERENS "Alan Berens"

This belongs in the nit department,  but I suspect that the fastest course for
a 26' boat from Maine to Houston is via Chicago,  and not Florida.  While the 
total milage is probably a little more (from a quick look at an road map),  
weather would be somewhat less of a concern and the distance down river with a 
following current would add to your speed.  On the other hand,  there would
be locks and drawbridges to wait for,  and you would have to lower your mast
for part of the trip.

A somewhat mixed factor is each segment would be a lot different kind of 
boating.  

Course would be Maine to Cape Cod canal to New York to Albany to Buffalo
across the Great Lakes to Chicago down the Chicago River to the Mississippi
to the Atchafalaya to the Gulf to Houston.

(pause for breath.)

I'm not sure how much faster this route would be (or even if it's faster)
but the rest of Alan's comments apply.


Phil

    
    Ron,
    
    	The outer route (via Key West) from Portland ME to Galviston TX
    is 2150 nautical miles. 
    
    	Assuming you own an auto pilot to help with the steering
    	Assuming Dot doesn't divorce you along the way (that there's a
    							  lot'o miles)
    
    	Assuming you sail 8 hours a day at 5 knots 
    
    You should be able to make 40 NM / day so... with a layday per week.
    that works out to 54 days of sailing ... or about 7 weeks of straight
    daytime sailing. Assuming you stop once a day that works out to
    61 calander days 
    
    If you take two other people along running 20 hour per day on
    average at 5 Knots you should be able to make 100 miles per day
    now you're talking about 22 sailing days or about 3 weeks... add in
    the laydays (3) Thats 25 calander days of sailing.
    
    
    What you really should consider is having your boat moved to
    Florida by a profession skipper at about $100 or $150 per day plus
    expenses. Then take it the rest of the way yourself. A boat mover
    should be able to run down the intercostal and down to florida
    , say Jacksonville (1071 KM) for about $3000 or so. 
    
    Heck. You drive it to NYC w/ two friends. 
    I'll drive it to Virgina Beach with a couple of buddies. 
    Pay a guy to drive it to jacksonville for $1800 including expenses.
    Then you drive it to Texas w/ two extra friends....
    
    Portland ME to NYC		:575 miles @5kts for 20 hrs/day =  6 days
    NYC to VA Beach		:294 miles @5kts for 10 hrs/day =  6 days
    VA Beach to Jacksonville    :587 miles @5kts for 10 hrs/day = 12 days
    Jacksonville to Key West	:462 miles @5kts for 24 hrs/day =  4 days
    Key West to Galvaston	:775 miles @5kts for 24 hrs/day =  7 days
              
    COST:   hired gun:	$1500
    	    expenses :  $4000 i'm guessing , beats me I don't know your boat
    				(fuel, food, misc)
            my cost  : freebe (I don't charge friends)
    	
    	so maybe FOOD/FUEL/MISC for 35 days $4000 including slip fees and
    	stuff                                     
    	   
    	total cost: $5500  - $6000 
    	and you get a couple of nice trips out of it and you get your
    	boat to TX with a minimum of aggravation... (i think)... ;)
    
    				Georgia
    
    

    Hmmmm.  At $4K to $6K, it sure doesn't seem practical to do a sail down
    and around to Houston.  Maybe I should reconsider and do it
    differently.
    
    If I'm smart and lucky, maybe I can schedule some training in Maynard
    sometime during the spring/summer/fall, that way Digital will already
    have me back to the MA area from Dallas and all I'll have to do is
    schedule my vacation time appropriately and I'll have to pay the
    airfare for my wife.  Round trip from Dallas to Boston is probably
    under $600 (a guess).
    
    Then we could take the month as a block of time and finally do Nova
    Scotia.  We get to see family and friends, we get to continue the use
    of our already owned mooring, our dog gets to do some fine swimming and
    barking at the seals.
    
    And/or perhaps we could rent the boat during the other summer months at
    something like $250/week which would pay our summer expenses.
    
    Does this make more sense?
    
    I will call the rental places as suggested earlier to see about a
    one-way rental of a flatbed.  One problem with this is that we would
    like to take advantage of the trip to Dallas and take in some of the
    sights along the way - which might be prretty difficult when trailering
    our pet boat.
    
    	Regards,
    
    	Ron
    

    Re rental of flatbed - 
    
    Do you have the appropriate drivers license? If you are talking a
    tractor trailer, you need a TT license. Any truck over 26,000 lbs
    requires a commercial drivers license. Can you find a truck that
    you can legally drive that will carry this kind of load?
    
    Bill
    

    It's not that big a boat.  A 6000 lb. rated flatbead trailer should do
    it.  A real pickup truck will be required, however.  If I already had
    the truck, I'd go the DIY route.  You're at the wide load threshold
    which may mean a sign on the trailer & permits.  But I've seen bigger
    boats being towed and I don't recall any special measures taken. 
    
    If you don't have the truck, consider renting a big truck from U-haul
    with a trailer and moving both household and boat yourself at the same
    time.  Then have Dec relo pick up the tab for everything.  Cheaper for
    the company and you'll have your boat where you want it.
    
    - gene

    A son-in-law who has been enemployed for two years as a contractor,
    until recently when he picked up a new job, has a 1989 Pathfinder which
    is four-wheel drive - but - has a blown engine.  He found that it's
    about $2300 bucks to get another motor - even thru a boneyard.  I'm
    surprised at the expense but that's his story anyway.
    
    Now we could give him our 87 Tercel and buy the Pathfinder and drop the
    motor in it.  Is this strong enough to tow a flatbed as .-1 suggests?
    
    Also, I believe our beam is 8' 8" and the boat weighs 5300 pounds with
    a solid lead fin keel.
    
    	Regards,
    
    	Ron
    
    ps: in my earlier note about flying my wife at $600, I forgot that we
    also need to get our dog to the boat as well.  There is NO way we'll do
    the trip w/o her!
    

    Ron,
    
    I've towed a 5300 lb boat with a Ford Bronco II on the interstate with
    minimal problems (no electric brakes added a lot of required stopping
    distance). If you can find a cheapo pickup truck or the Pathfinder
    engine and a trailer, you should do fine, so long as you heed the
    previous ideas about bridge height, etc. 
    
    You'd also want to route yourself over relatively level ground.
    Mountain climbing with one of those beasts behind you can be a real
    challenge - particularly going downhill. :-)
    
    We have *lots* of relatively large lakes in Texas. You could find your
    boat a home here. We also have some great racing clubs. If you decide
    to slip your boat in Houston, let me know; that's where my wife and I
    keep ours. I can get you marina info, etc. Be forewarned, however, that
    the drive between Dallas and Houston is approx 5 hrs. We do it alot -
    gives us quiet time to talk, etc, but if you want on the boat quick-
    forget it....
    
    Robert

    re .-1
    
    Robert,
    
    Thanks for the note.  What is the sailing like around Galveston
    and/or Houston?  Is the water clean?  Are there beaches?  Hos is the
    Gulf for sailing?  Do people saildown to Mexico and how much time or
    how many km are there to interesting spots.
    
    Do people own their own moorings and what are rules/permits required to
    sink a mooring? 
    
    How much are the charges for slips and what are some recommendations
    for good marinas in the area?  What about parking?  Is it free near the 
    marinas or is one charged for the use of space?
    
    Do you have any phone numbers of reliable marinas?
    
    	Regards and thanks for letting me barrage you with all these ?'s,
    
    	Ron
    

re .7:

>>>    	The outer route (via Key West) from Portland ME to Galviston TX
>>>     is 2150 nautical miles. 
    
Uh huh, and this will take you as much as about 200 miles offshore, both 
in the Atlantic and the Gulf of Mexico. While you may feel comfortable
going that far offshore on a Pearson 26, I certainly don't. Staying
reasonably close to the coast will increase the length of the trip
considerably. 

    The distance offshore is either incredibly risky or routine...
    depending on your point of view, and experience.  Many boats smaller
    than that have crossed the 'big pond' or made the Bermuda trip.
    
    On the other hand, an inexperienced skipper, or bad weather could
    make 200 miles offshore deadly.
    
    If you pick your season, are a competent skipper, and have a sound
    boat the trip sounds reasonable to me.
    
    Jeff

    The Yin Yang is my "training" boat and if it hasn't broken yet (take it
    easy, Georgia :-) ) after what I've put it through, I doubt it'll EVER
    break!  The boat, in my humble opinion, is a lot sounder than I am.
    
    But, what the hey, the trip sailing is too far for me for the time I
    have to make the trip (a month).
    
    	Regards,
    
    	Ron
    

             <<< UNIFIX::$1$DUA14:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SAILING.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SAILING >-
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Note 1981.18              Help: Portland ME -> Houston                  18 of 18
UNIFIX::BERENS "Alan Berens"                         18 lines  15-DEC-1992 15:27
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re .16:

Venturing offshore is always risky, be it 20 miles or 200 miles or 
further. As a generalization, the smaller the boat, the greater the 
risk. In my opinion, a Pearson 26 (which is the boat in question here)
should not sailed offshore, regardless of the competence of the captain
and crew. As I said in a previous note, just because someone has made an
offshore passage on a particular boat doesn't mean that it was safe or
prudent to have done so. The gods may watch over fools are a matter of
routine, but even the gods fall asleep. 

Certainly, small boats can be reasonably safe offshore, though small 
and reasonable are perhaps a matter of personal opinion. Having been to 
Bermuda and back on my Valiant 32, I have no interest in going offshore 
on a smaller boat, no matter how well-built. 


re .17:

The January/February 1993 issue of Ocean Navigator has a lengthy letter 
to the editor that discusses failure of stainless steel fittings, 
chainplates in particular. In warm waters, it appears necessary to 
replace chainplates every 10 years or so because of corrosion. 
Replacement is needed less often in colder climates. Just because it
hasn't broken yet doesn't mean it won't. According to the letter,
several boats lost their rigs last year in Hawaii due to broken
chainplates. 

Alan

    Back to the trailer scheme. When DEC moved me from Detroit to Maynard,
    I owned a FOLKBOAT (Wood, 27 feet loa, 6,000 pounds). I checked
    trucking prices and then built a 4 wheel trailer, with electric brakes.
    My father-in-law towed it out here behind his Chrysler, equipped to tow
    a family camper. For the next several years I used the trailer each
    winter to haul the boat home for winter work. Such a storage trailer is
    a very valuable addition to a boat.
    
    When I got ready to sell the boat, a buyer turned up from Galvaston TX.
    He drove up to look at the boat, returned home to think it over, drove
    back up and bought the boat. He towed it home behind a full size van.
    
    A 4 wheel trailer for a little boat line this could eailsy be built for
    under $1000. Then rent a small U-Haul truck and tow away. 

    RE: Safety
    
    I happen to agree with you Alan.  I certainly would never go way out to
    sea in a 26 footer, although as you know many have done so in much
    smaller boats with few problems.   Its a personal call.  The skipper
    has to weigh the cost/benefit/risk ratio for him/herself.
    
    Jeff

    re .-2
    
    Hey, Ron, you MUST owe me a FEW by now  (please, oh please!)
    
    How would YOU like to build the trailer and I'll take it off your hands
    for a few extra bucks?  What a GREAT winter project!
    
    	Ron
    

    
    
    RON,
    
    	How much is it worth to you to have me bring your boat to TX via
    highways? (grin) It just occured to me I have access to a J30 trailer.
    My number 2 boat (i race a J35 and a J30) has a trailer and the owner
    of said trailer owes me big time.
    
    							georiga

    Georgia,
    
    My answer is going to be SO BAD that you'll think we'll NEVER be
    friends again.  One thing (among many) that I'm BAD as in VERY BAD in
    is in coming up with such an answer.
    
    I really don't spend money and I negotiate to the point where I should
    be embarrassed.  You ONLY know me thru the ONE time I am splurging and
    that's to give my spouse a graduation present of a sailing trip to the
    Bahamas (with me onboard).  This is a one-shot deal for me unless I win
    bigtime in the lottery (which I've never spent a dime on to date!).
    
    I do do trades in place of cash; yet, I know of nothing to compensate
    you for bringing our boat to Houston.  I suppose I could offer the use
    of our 10-month old black lab as the mascot of the trip to the Bahamas. 
    Now, how's that for a deal?
    
    	Regards,
    
    	Ron
    
    ps: yup, now I've gone from Engineer to watching for land from the
    cage!
    

    Reading through the note and replies, it seems to me that a more
    obvious solution is to sell the boat and buy another one in Texas. 
    Let's say you tow the boat.  This means that you have trade then refit
    your Pathfinder, buy or rent a trailer, and travel a very long way with
    an albatros behind you.  The trip, I'd think, would be grueling and
    probably a lot more expensive than you think. Renting a trailer is
    going to be expensive and so is buying or making a trailer. I'm
    guessing that the trip will still cost you $1.5-2K.  If I'm right,
    couldn't you just deduct that amount from the lowest $$$$ that you'd
    take if you were selling the boat?
    
    I realize that owning a boat is entirely emotional, but if you can
    bring yourself to selling your boat cheaply, you can then travel
    leisurely to Texas, and then you can buy a boat more suited to the
    area.  It may be a bad sellers market, but almost any boat will sell
    for the right price.  
    
    Nothing against your Pearson, but Gulf coast boats tend to be shoal
    draft boats suited for light wind conditions.  Same for lake boats. 
    I've sailed North Florida, Alabama, Missisippi coasts and I wouldn't
    want a deep keel boat for intercoastal sailing.  Even offshore passages
    have surprisingly shallow waterways in that area.
    
    Just a thought ...
    
    Bob

    re .-1
    
    Bob, now you're sounding just like my WIFE! (except for the comment
    about the "albatross".  If she even THOUGHT about our boat as one of
    them, I'm sure my dear and faithful Yin Yang would have tossed her off
    the boat a long long time ago!   An ALBATROSS?  She is a thing of
    beauty, a treasure to the eyes, a vessel which makes grown women faint
    when they see this lovely wonder.
    
    On the other hand, you do make a LOT of sense.  
    
    In a senseless moment of carelessness and recklessness and
    impulsiveness I shall now post my dearly beloved for sale at a truly
    STUPID price.  I hope I get some sense in my head BEFORE somebody
    really takes me up on this deal.  Nausea is overcoming me at this very
    moment.
    
    Off to the classifieds.
    
    	Stop me!  Stop me!  Stop me!!!
    
    	Ron
    

    Re .24- what is this, bringing rational, logical thought into a
    discussion of keeping ones boat? Clearly, it would be better to sell
    the thing, and buy another. But since when is owning a boat in anyway a
    logical or economic proposition.

    Ron,
    
    then, of course, there's the method that requires more time, money,
    planning and aggravation than all the others posted:
    
     Sail the boat south for the few weeks a year you have available. Store
    it til the following season.
    
    Oh, another feature of this is that as you will find that the boat will
    develop problems over the year layover so that much of your sailing
    time will be eaten up by repairs before you can launch again...
    
    Gregg

    
    
    umm..errr.. no thanks.. I'll pass. But I bet if you looked around
    or even called a mover you might be able to land a cheap spot on
    a truck for the boat if you don't care exactly when the boat will be
    picked up or delivered... (I did that with a car from CT ot Fl and got
    a really good deal.)
    
    				georgia
    
    PS: not sure its the same for bulk shipments but might be worth a
    try...
    

    Give me a call and I'll answer your questions on the phone. It'll save
    me typing and everyone reading!
    
    Robert
    d-486-6496
    0 214-404-6496

    re .25: No I didn't mean to imply that the Pearson was an albatros but
    rather towing anything that is that BIG is an albatros.  Towing an hour
    or two is one thing (and to me, still nerve wracking), but towing a
    two-three day journey sounds like a lot of a version of hell to me
    (shopping malls are also right up there).  If you've ever moved across
    the country by U-Haul, you know that you aren't exactly relaxed. 
    Instead, you're driving at 50mph, worrying about theft, clearances, and
    so on.
    
    I guess if your boat was a one-of-a-kind, a custom-built, or really
    expensive boat that you couldn't sell - then you should keep it and
    find a way to move it if you think Dallas is worthwhile.  But, you
    loved once (the Pearson) and you can love again (something else) with a
    lot less $$$$ and hassle than towing a really large object down the
    highway being pulled by something (a Nissan) that really doesn't want
    to tow something that big (but barely can). I own a Catalina 22 with a
    wing keel and this is really more than enough to tow behind my S10
    Blazer.  Towing it 60 miles twice a year is enough.
    
    Another thing to ponder is this: 1. don't sell your boat, 2. keep it in
    storage, 3. see how you like Dallas, and 4. finally see whether or not
    your job with DEC is really secure.  If either #3 or #4 don't pan out,
    then you can always come back here where your boat and poverty await
    you.  It seems to me that being stuck in Dallas without a job (a very
    real possibility) or being in Dallas with a bad job, or having a job
    and hating Dallas ... could make me think twice about moving the boat. 
    There are many things that you can't possibly know until you get there.
    
    If I sound like your wife, that because she slipped me $50 to tell you
    just this ...
    
    Bob
    
    P.S.  Don't forget this maxim if you do sell (paraphrased somewhat):
    
    	"The two most beautiful days in a sailor's life are the day he/she
    	 buys a boat and the day he/she sells it ..."