| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1805.1 | | CRATE::BARKER | Now @NEW, ex. RYO,UCG,SBP,RES & REO | Thu Oct 17 1991 05:07 | 40 |
| Welcome to the world of multi coloured Nylon.
The choice of how to rig the pole depends on how you are going to gybe
the kite. The best way to do it on a 26ft fractional rig boat, would be
to end-for-end it, that is, when you gybe, you first disconnect the
pole end from the mast, then attach that end to the old sheet, you then
disconnect the other end from the old guy, and attach it to the mast.
If you do this, you will need to attach the uphaul and downhaul/foreguy
to the centre of the pole ( or to the centre of a wire going from one
end of the pole to the other ). You also need a symmetrical pole. The
downhaul should be lead somewhere on the foredeck, the further aft the
better. I have sailed on a boat where it runs through a jamming block fixed
to the front of the coachroof, which is about 3 feet in front of the
mast.
If you attach the foreguy/uphaul to the end of the pole, then this end
has to be attached to guy, and the only way to gybe is dip-pole, which
needs more gear, and more crew.
Regarding halyards, there is nothing wrong with leading the halyards
externally, although one possiblity dependeding on the exact design of
the sheaves, would be to run the halyard though the second jib halyard
sleeve, and then though your block above the forestay. You should only
do this if there would be no friction.
A second possibility, which is how our Scampi is rigged, is to cut a
slot in the mast, about 2 feet BELOW the forestay, (fitting an insert to
stop the sharp edges rubbing ), and then take it through the block
above. I would agree with you about not cutting the mast above the forestay.
The pole uphaul needs only go 3/4 of the way up the mast, and can
easily be led externally or internally. Lead all the ropes aft if you
are serious about your racing, otherwise just have cleats on the mast.
Good luck,
Chris
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| 1805.2 | Suggestions from a cruising sailor | ACTHUB::RYAN | | Thu Oct 17 1991 14:28 | 40 |
| Having just done this for my cruising boat, a Catalina, here are some
suggestions:
1. It costs more than you think - even if you do it yourself.
2. You don't need all the fancy racing extras even if you do some PHRF
racing.
3. Use an external halyard or go through the extra jib halyard.
4. Run the guy from the base of your mast: I didn't do this, and on my
small boat, the padeye and block always get in the way. Maybe you have
better control of the guy but I doubt it.
5. Use your jib halyard for a topping lift as long its not in the way
of the halyard. If it's wire you should change to nylon
line to eliminate any chance of fraying coming in contact with the
chute.
6. For #3,4,5 - the layout to the cockpit is more important than the
internal halyards, extra topping lifts, etc. Use color coded lines
if possible to minimize confusion. Spend the extra dollars here.
Use 'deck organizers' to channel your lines to the cockpit. Think
about this carefully.
7. An inexpensive way to mount sheet blocks is with fittings that
attach to your stern pulpit stanchions. Using the genoa blocks
works pretty good (some binding).
8. Buy a turtle bag for the chute.
I single hand the boat (with a tiller tender) or minimally short-hand
sail the spinnaker with a crew working just the tiller. The only
things I'd change would be COLOR coded line (not just speckled colors)
and moving the guy to the mast foot's bridle. Spinnakers for cruising
aren't all that hard to fly as long as the boat is intelligently layed
out and you stuffed the chute correctly the first time.
Bob
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| 1805.3 | topper advice | AKOCOA::DJOHNSTON | | Thu Oct 17 1991 14:59 | 8 |
| If racing, you absolutely need a separate topping lift from the jib
halyard. Otherwise you need to lower the jib everytime you raise the
chute. This is not good practice. It is slow if you are racing and
hard to control the chute even if cruising. Take downs without a jib
up to blanket the chute are even harder. The topping lift can be wire
and will not chafe the spin anymore than braid.
Dave
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| 1805.4 | This will Complicate things further! | NZOMIS::MITCHELL | Glen M. - The Kiwi Connection | Fri Oct 18 1991 08:30 | 49 |
| I have a 25' Trailer yacht used exclusively for racing.. we carry a
crew of four and always sail with maximum sail area available with a
choice of two kites.
My rig is also fractional, but with swept spreaders and no backstay,
and we have the option to use running backs which I rig for long
distance races, and remove for round the bouys stuff.
A couple of other points you may wish to consider:
1) you wont have much room to store your pole... we used to keep ours
on the boom in largeish rings, and this seems quite common with both the
topper and down haul left attached... this often caused problems on the
beating leg with the attached lines sometimes catching on cabin top
fittings such as winches or "open" clutches. We did away with the Boom
idea, and have far more success stowing the pole on the deck running it
fore and aft from the base of the mast..
This system also has its pitfalls, but when racing with a reasonably
experienced crew works better for us.
2) As an additional feature to add to the complexity of tuning and
performance options, our spinnaker halyard actually exits above the hounds,
and travels up to the mast head, where it passes through an external block,
and is then tweaked down to a position just above the original exit
point. The tweaker can then be eased to fly the spinnaker from the mast
head, or taken in to fly the kite fractionally... Our mast was
therefore designed to have two exit holes above the forestay (and in
the tapered area), one for the halyard exit, the other for the tweaker.
3) When racing, I also believe its useful to have spinnaker sheet and
brace long enough so that they go right around the boat. This means
that if you cannot, or elect not to, ping the snap shackle on the brace
when dropping the kite at the leeward mark, under pressure you can
always safely run the brace instead.
4) Do you have tweakers on your sheet and brace?
Complicated options eh? but keep it simple at first... we learnt to
sail by racing, and were thrown in at the deep end in conditions where
the normal wind strength is 20+ knots.. and in those conditions
spinnaker work can be pretty exhilerating for the novice to say the
least.
Good luck.
3)
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| 1805.5 | Downhaul placement | POBOX::DBERRY | | Thu Oct 24 1991 16:09 | 7 |
| I would not attach my downhaul to the base of the mast unless I were
only gooing to fly the chute in very light air. The load on a downhaul
under some conditions can be considerable and would be aggravated by
the attachment to the base of the mast. People don't put those blocks
in the middle of the foredeck (right in the way) just so they can spoil
the sunbathing.
|
| 1805.6 | dual downhaul | MDCLAM::WARSHAW | | Thu Nov 14 1991 15:45 | 7 |
| As a crew member working the main, I am sometimes required to help with
the chute lines. I found that the dual foreguy (port - through block on
pole- to starboard) saved me lots of time travelling port to starboard.
It's worth the extra bucks without full crew.
b.
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| 1805.7 | Spinnak-a-phobia | UNIFIX::BERENS | The Moderator | Mon Jul 06 1992 15:03 | 50 |
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Note 1805.7 Rig for Spinnaker 7 of 13
KALI::VACON 40 lines 1-JUN-1992 09:52
-< Spinnak-a-phobia >-
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I've developed a case of "spinnak-a-phobia." I wonder if anyone out
there reading this shares this dreaded disease.
Being cruising (not racing) sailors, a few years back we got ourselves
a Cape Dory 28...full keel...etc.
It came equipped with a spinnaker, spinnaker halyard, pole, block in
the middle of the foredeck (for I foreguy, excuse if I use the wrong
names), blocks for the sheet and afterguy...etc.
I've flow it perhaps 3 times...the last time about a week ago. In the
past, I lowered my jib, and then spent 20 min on the foredeck getting
everything arranged, and never felt like I was "in control."
Now, this time, having watched the America's cup mark roundings,
I knew just what to do? I set everything up, and successfully raised
the spinnaker behind the genoa. Dropped the genoa, and IT WORKED!
It filled up and looked right (to me).
But this lasted only 3-4 min. It took me about this long at the helm
to manage to wrap it hopelessly around the forestay. Spent the next
20 min working this out. Lowered the spinnaker and headed for the
barn.
Now "spinnak-a-phobia" has settled in. SPINNAK-A-PHOBIA: a fear of
flying chutes.
Any suggested cures?
Maybe the first step is to admit your a "spinnak-a-phobic."????
Am I alone...should we form a support group? What should we call
ourselves?
Seriously, your suggestions on how to go up the learning curve with
minimum pain are welcome.
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| 1805.8 | practice in moderate conditions ... | UNIFIX::BERENS | The Moderator | Mon Jul 06 1992 15:03 | 17 |
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Note 1805.8 Rig for Spinnaker 8 of 13
CUPTAY::BAILEY "A pirate looks at 40." 7 lines 1-JUN-1992 10:07
-< practice in moderate conditions ... >-
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The only cure that I know of is ... practice. Try to do it on a day
when there's moderate wind (over 5 kt, less than 15 kt). If possible
take an extra crew or two along ... preferably someone who knows how to
raise and douse a chute.
... Bob
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| 1805.9 | A Spinnaker Drill | UNIFIX::BERENS | The Moderator | Mon Jul 06 1992 15:03 | 31 |
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Note 1805.9 Rig for Spinnaker 9 of 13
STEREO::HO 21 lines 1-JUN-1992 18:20
-< A Spinnaker Drill >-
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Here's an exercise to build awareness of how the wind and chute
interact. Launch as you are accustomed to doing. Position the pole
halfway between the forestay and shroud at a height that puts the two
clews on the same level. If the pole tends to bounce, put a snatch
block on the guy at the widest part of the boat. Trim or ease the
sheet so the chute looks "right", i.e. not collapsed or wrapped. Then
cleat both sheet and guy down.
Make sure there are telltales on both shrouds. Then, pretend the chute
is a big jib. Head upwind till the chute's leading edge starts to
flutter and then, fall off to refill it. Fall way off and watch the
chute wrap neatly arond the forestay. Using the telltales note what
the wind is doing W/R/T the chute. It will become apparent that wind
hitting the backside of the chute, whether from heading too high or too
low is bad.
The big trick in chute handling is too keep wind flowing into the belly
of the sail and away from the backside. Just manipulate everything to
make that happen and you'll do fine.
- gene
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| 1805.10 | | UNIFIX::BERENS | The Moderator | Mon Jul 06 1992 15:25 | 18 |
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Note 1805.10 Rig for Spinnaker 10 of 13
DEMOAX::GINGER "Ron Ginger" 9 lines 2-JUN-1992 09:41
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Can't resist a story here- back a couple notes someone mentioned the
foreguy -or whatever its called.
I crewed on a Concordia Yawl in college days. On one race there was a
lot of confusion on a jibe, and several different names were called
out- foreguy, pole downhaul, etc. The skipper, in a bit of a fit said
"I dont care if you call the damn thing George, just someone pull on it"
From that minute on that line was called George, and it was the one
line on the boat everyone knew.
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| 1805.11 | Yank up your socks, son! | UNIFIX::BERENS | The Moderator | Mon Jul 06 1992 15:25 | 18 |
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MILKWY::WAGNER "Scott" 8 lines 2-JUN-1992 11:31
-< Yank up your socks, son! >-
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I've never tried one, but how about those chute-scoops? It's
a long sock you pull up and down over the chute with some simple
mechanics- probably not too expensive- and you can operate the
thing from the cockpit.
It won't prevent wraps altogether tho. Not even a full crew can
guarantee it!
Figure_8 Wagner, chute mangler of the south (shore)
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| 1805.12 | easy to make too | UNIFIX::BERENS | The Moderator | Mon Jul 06 1992 15:25 | 15 |
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Note 1805.12 Rig for Spinnaker 12 of 13
5410::MCBRIDE "Flick of my BIC Scarecrow?" 5 lines 3-JUN-1992 09:24
-< easy to make too >-
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Chute scoops are pretty easy to make for short money also. A lot of
nylon, some string, a few bits of hardware and a serviceable sewing
machine is all it takes. Oh yeah, I forgot time.
Brian
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| 1805.13 | Don't fight it, just enjoy .......... | UNIFIX::BERENS | The Moderator | Mon Jul 06 1992 15:25 | 25 |
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Note 1805.13 Rig for Spinnaker 13 of 13
43406::BEVAN 28 lines 3-JUN-1992 10:24
-< Don't fight it, just enjoy .......... >-
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re .7 Spinnak-a-phobia
While you are still learning to use the spinnaker, leave a working jib/yankee/
whatever, hoisted high (strop if necessary) and sheeted hard in. That way the
spinnaker will not wrap so easily and its MUCH easier to unwrap because its not
tight round the tight around forestay wire . The jib doesn't cause too many
problems with the air flow while you learn to set it.
The other useful thing to try is to use the forces that wrapped it to un-wrap
it. (You see I'm a lazy sailor as well as a bad one!) Let's assume you
launched the chute and got it up clean, pole set etc. Then a moments inattention puts a
twist in it. Before it wraps around 66 times, jybe the main asap and leave the
pole on the wrong side (tell your crew before you leave the dock that this is
what you will be doing IF the spinny wraps) . Steer to re-fill both halves of
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| 1805.14 | a few hints | BTOVT::HILTON_G | the light at the end of the tunnel is an Oncomming..(crunch) | Sat Sep 05 1992 00:02 | 102 |
|
hi,
first off DON'T PANIC. It's ok to worry but don't let
your fears run your life.
I race semi-professionally and cruise quite often.
I LOVE MY 'CHUTE... It's really not hard to fly.
It's hard to fly right. But you don't need to be
great at it to have fun and use the beast.
A few hints:
As stated, get 2 people who have done spinnaker
sets, take-downs, jibes and straight flying.
(if your in the new Elgland area I'd be happy to
drag my fore deck crew and spend a day with you)
Pick a nice light air (NOT to light) day.
Pick a spot for a nice long run. (a 20 , 30 run
would be nice)
lock the pole to the mast about shoulder height
Keep the JIB flying until the spinnaker is full!
level the pole by adjusting the fore-guy and
topping lift.
make sure the chute has been packed correctly
(I assume it is)
Set a single set of line (sheet and guy) don't
bother with lazy guys
set the guy and prefeed the guy so that the spinnaker
is pulled up to the pole.
keep the sheet tigher than it normally should be and
raise the chute quickly.
as the chute fills ease the sheet until the sail is full.
drop the jib and make final adjustments
******
When flying the spinnaker don't keep it too tight.
most beginners tend to fly a spinnaker tight.
this is ont goodness.
Fly the chute 'open' let it have enough sheet.
Keep the pole around 90 degrees to the wind until
you get a bit better at tuning.
Let the outside edges lightly flutter.
If the upwind side begins to flutter or droop
then bring the pole forward a bit.(if the wind
has shifted) otherwise... tighten slightly
on the sheet. Also if you get a puff let the chute have
some room by releaseing a bit and then tightening the sheet
as the puff drops off.
Normally let the sheet out until the chute flutters and then
bring it in just a bit. (remember , not to tight)
As for crew, you should have three people for best results
one to fly the chute (handle the sheet and call adjustments)
one to handle the guy
one to winch
*****
I'm not going to touch jibing at this point... :)
*****
Take downs. (THIS can get nasty)
Normally, again this is pretty strainght forward
if done correctly.
Get a crew member not doing anything to grap the
sheet between the sail and the after block.
make sure the haylard is clear and not tangled
as you release the haylard pull in on the sheet and
pull like mad. At the same time have the person on the
sheet (the person who was flying the chute) drop the
sheet and assist in sucking in the chute into the
cockpit or even down the hatch below. Have the person
on the guy fees the guy around until its lose and the
chute is being dumped. Then have them feed the haylard
until the chute in inboard.
Ta DA!!!!
you have set, flown, and dumped the chute,....!!!
feel free to call
Georgia
Chute Goddess on SPELLBOUND
and AIRBOURNE...
1 BTOVT::HILTON_G
if the downwind side flutters or droops t
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