Conference unifix::sailing

    Jim:
    
    	I'm confused about your hull configuration.  You make it sound
    like you have a hollow fin.  This would be rare, no?
    
    Anyway, I have a drain in my lowest bilge point.  This is a wooden
    boat with full keel so my drain is just aft of amidship in the bottom
    of my port garboard.   It is simply a bronze 1/2" plug with square
    head.   If this ever becomes a weak point during a grounding it
    will be the least of my problems :^).   I leave it open all winter
    and even with a good cover (which I have) it occasionally weeps.
    
    If you can put it in yourself, do it.   I don't see what harm it
    could do and it may prevent an interior skating rink should you
    suffer a topside leak for any reason.   Of course it is important
    to remember to put it back in before launch.

    If you have an impeller for your knot/log, why not remove it?  It may
    not be at the absolute lowest point in the boat, but probably low
    enough that most of the interior will be above its level.  And it's an
    admirably large hole to let lots of water out.
    
    I never thought about the suggestion.  Thanks for putting the note in
    here.
    
    djc

    I think we covered this previously, but in case you did not see the
    note, rather than core another hole in the hull, I suggest using a "water
    vacuum" and a little anti-freeze (a quart?).  The long hose of a
    water vac can usually be dropped down three feet or more to totally
    vacuum the water out. Have you tried this?
    My bilges are not that deep, but I use the water vac to pick up any
    crud that ends up in the bilges, so I do not foul my bilge pump.

     Re: .1

        Actually my keel is hollow - sort of - the front foot is lead with
        the aft edge being hollow. The entire keel is fiberglassed like
        thus; 

           __________            ___________
                     \  Bilge    |
                      \-------+  |
                       \ Lead |  |
                        \      \ |
                         --------+
                                  <-------- Drain plug here

        The drain plug to be effective would have to be on the bottom of
        the keel where the head of it could get wiped out during a
        grounding. 


     Re: .2 

        As far as opening the knot/log transducer hole, I already do but
        the knot/log transducer is located on the flat bottom section of
        the hull about 1.5 foot outboard of the keel root where the water
        flow past the transducer should be the most laminar (and hence the
        most accurate measurement of speed). As such the Knot/log hole is
        located about 3 feet above the bottom of the keel bilge. 
    
        Additionally placement of the the Knot/log transducer within the
        keel well would seem to be unwise since the area is an area
        subjected to much stress and would be vulnerable in a grounding. 
     
     Re: .3
     
        As already mentioned I do clean up the bilge and pour Propyl Glycol
        (the non toxic stuff) down in the keel bilge (along with the rudder
        skeg bilge). Now matter how I cover the boat I still get about a
        gallon of water condensate over the entire winter that finds it's
        way down into the bilge - hence the anti-freeze 
     
     
     In general:
        
        What I was interested in was how many people didn't use anti-freeze
        in their bilges and relied on drain plugs to get rid of winter
        condensation that drains down into the bilges. 
        
        The other thing I was interested in was how people who relied on
        drain plugs handled the problem that their drain plug was not in
        the lowest part of the bilge and might not drain completely.
        
     /jim
     
    

    I use antifreeze in the very shallow sump of my C + C 29, after
    vacuuming the sump as dry as possible.  I cover the boat with sort of
    waterproof "tarp."  I leave the hatches in the ventilate
    position and leave the port open slightly, with screens in place.   I
    take the mast down (before the cover goes on) and put a loose plywood
    panel over the hole in the cabin top.  Some years I have put a weight
    on the plywood panel, other years I have loosely cleated it place.  
    
    I have only one year of experience with this boat, but had minimal
    accumulation of moisture inside last year.  I did not leave any holes
    in the bilge area open last year, nor will I this year.   I followed
    the same basic procedures for my previous boat with no condensation
    problems.  
    
    I mentioned the knot/log opening in my previous reply because you seemed 
    to be concerned about keeping a major leak from filling the boat with 
    water.  I certainly didn't mean to suggest you should move the
    transducer to the bottom of your keel.    
    
    Before reading your note I had never read or heard of suggestions for
    putting a drain at the bottom of a keel.
    
    djc

    One more thought about those of us who have previously used antifreeze
    in the bilges.  
    
    I think it was Practical Sailor, in their article on hull blisters that
    said some industry pundits feel moisture in the bilges may contribute
    to a large proportion of the osmotic blisters people experience with
    fiberglass boats.
    
    Just when you thought it was safe to get out of the water.
    

    Had boat years ago with slight interior (to hull) leak into flotation 
    tank.  Could not stop leak, so had to install plug to let water out for
    winter.
    
    First season, after drilling 3/8" hole from outside of hull, inserted
    soft pine plug and painted over it with rest of the bottom.  Had no
    problems that season and not sure I ever would have except for paranoia
    that the plug would somehow fall/get sucked out.  Also, had to leave
    portion of plug sticking out so could get a hold on it for removal.
    
    Next season, drilled 1/2" tap hole (13/32") and tapped hole for 1/2" 
    bronze plug with hex key head.  With heavy coating of gunk on threads,
    plug did not leak, allowed me to sleep nights, and was easy to remove/
    reinsert next season.
    
    My guess is that the lamina on the bottom of your keel probably end up
    constituting a thickness of +/- 5/8", which makes it an ideal applica-
    tion for a plug as long as pilot hole is not tapped 100% thread all 
    the way through and plug can be inserted flush.
    
    Leave inside last two threads of hole only slightly traced by tap so
    that they will tighten on plug when it is inserted.  Use hex key or
    slot head type plug, either of which can tightened flush, and then
    can be soft-caulked for fairing and dug out at end of season.
    
    By the way, to avoid confusion, use a taper tap (head tapered, hence
    ability to slightly trace threads on inside of hole) and NOT a plug
    tap, which has a squared off head for tapping all the way to the bottom
    of a closed hole (will not allow you to trace threads for tightness).
    
    Also, use plenty of soap or other lubricant in the tapping process or
    the glass will eat your tap in no time.
    
    Good luck.
        

    Ref: .4
    Sounds like you have received some good recommendations.  One thought I
    had was that a gallon of condensate seems to be too much.  Could the
    keel or a water tank be draining/leaking?  With ventilation, a quart
    seems to be more likely for up to 35 ft'r.  Just a thought. Good luck
    with whatever you decide on!