Conference unifix::sailing

    I have a Holder 14, bought last year second hand in great shape
    for $2K. Have owned a 470, a Force 5 and a Mistral 16, too. 
    
    The 14 is a fine boat, though the dagger board design is a compromise
    (newer 14's have a kick up, I'm told). I'm going to add hiking straps,
    but otherwise the boat seems very complete. Not nearly as many go
    fasts as on the 470 or Mistral, but still adjustable for heavy &
    light air, and moderately heavy stuff is fine on main alone.
    
    Haven't seen the 20, but my Holder experience has been very good.
    Dealer coverage by Hobie is good, too.
    
    Gary

    they look just like a Mistral 20. A good boat, but I would perfer
    a O'Day daysailer such a task. Hobie does make an excellant boat with
    part supplies easy to get. From what I have been reading, the new
    owner of Coast Catamaran Corp (ie Hobie) is going to start cranking
    out more of the monohullers 
    
    john
    

    John,
    	You mention that you'd opt for an O'Day. What is your reasoning
    behind this? Is the O'Day faster, more stable, more space? Though I've 
    never sailed one I thought the O'Day was more of a heavy stable boat. 
    How trailerable is the O'Day? 
    	Both of the replies have brought up Mistral. Does Mistral sell
    something in this range that I should look at? If so where should I
    look?
    
    	I've got a littl more time now because my money just simply isn't 
    ready until January, but if I want to get a feel for how they sail I
    have to shop now before it fereezes. 
    
    	Thanks to those who have replied 
    	Geoff

I've got an O'Day Daysailer III.  I've found it to be an excellent boat for
trailering.  She sets up or takes down in about 45 minutes (because I generally
don't rush that sort of thing, it just gets you in trouble if you do).  She's
very stable and safe.  I've taken on water over the lee side and half filled
the cockpit and she's stayed up and self bailed with no effort.  She's not going
to win any speed prizes, but I bought it to learn with and to sail with my
kids and after three years I have no complaints with the boat.

The thing that I like about it (over the Holder 14's anyway) is that it has
a large cockpit and a cuddy.  The cuddy is real handy for storage, and more
than once my kids have been able to use it to get out of a cold breeze.  The
cockpit is large enough to hold four adults very comfortably.

Dave

    RE .3
    
         From the pictures I've seen of the Holder 20, it looks just like
    a Daysailer. Hobies are built in Cal. Until they closed, O'Days were
    built in R.I. . In New England, we have a lot more O'Days, which should
    help keep up the resale price. As to the demise of O'Day, you may wish
    to check with Cal. on whether they intend to keep producing the Holder
    20. From what I was reading in a small article in Hobie Hotline, the
    new owner is going to change the product mix. This may be good or bad.
    Best to check now.
    
        Mistral builds a nice looking 20. Even has a little opening up
    front to stuff you spinitker in. New, it seemed a bit overpriced, but 
    then so do most boats to me !
    
        If you get the Hobie, I suggest you get a white one. Hobie makes
    some pretty colored hulls (blue, yellow), but unless you keep them
    constantly covered, they will fade. Should you have to patch the
    hull, you'll never get it to look perfect. Hobie is good about selling
    gelcoat liquid and paste, but it matches new finishes, not old ones.
    If you buy new, pay the extra 400 bucks for a special edition version.
    The multicolored sails are nice, but more importantly, they upgrade all
    the hardware. It would cost you more just to replace the rachet systems
    with super high quality harken gear.
    
       Any one of the three boats would be good. They are all meant for
    trailering, easy sailing and low maintence. Best of all, you don't
    need a motor on these boats, so there is no need to Registar them in
    Ma. 
    
    john

     	What does it mean to me if the boat is out of production? I know 
     that the Holder 20 is no longer produced, the sales rep. I've been 
     dealing with has told me this. I don't understand how the boat being 
     out of production is going to effect its value. I don't imagine Hobie
     is going under and that would have me believe that the support for 
     the product would still exist. I asked if the reasoning was known for 
     this and I was basically told that it wasn't a profitable line. I'm
     not too surprised about this because it appears that small boat sailors 
     either want stable pocket cruisers, day sailors or if they're after real 
     sick speed they go for a catamaran (admittedly a serious blast but even 
     wetter than my 470 and not easily righted, I pitch-poled a cat Wow! fast!
     what a difficult boat to right).
     	So I'm not terribly surprised the boat is out of production as an 
     unpopular line. How can this effect me after I buy the boat? Ratchets,
     blocks and winches are something that look to me like an aftermarket item 
     on most boats after they're bought, produced by Harken and Leemar and
     not made specifically for any one boat. I don't see the hull as being 
     something you can buy parts for anyway. Maybe the mast could be a problem
     but it hasn't been easy to find anything at all for my 470 and I've 
     discovered that Vanguard (my hull) is out of Bristol R.I.
     	On the other hand McGregors are cheap and all over the place. They
     are still produced in huge quantities and even sold a lot closer to my 
     home. I don't think I want a McGregor because they are every where and
     I'd think that when I went to sell it, it would be easy for someone to 
     lowball me on the price. 

     	At this point it looks to me like a reasonable purchase. I have been 
     twice told that the price being asked is negotiable. It seems pretty 
     clear to me that the guy is a little afraid to have the boat sitting 
     in his yard. He wants to sell it and it looks like the buyer's market.
     I want to take the boat for a test sail and will probably make an 
     offer if I like it. We're both busy this weekend, so it would be the
     next. 

     	Why and how should the production discontinuing effect my evaluation?
     And while I'm here, what should I look for during a test sail?

     Thanks again
     Geoff