Conference unifix::sailing

    I have not seen any tests of the various bands of epoxies in the
    publications I read.  I use WEST brand for a couple of reasons.
    
    1) I met with the Gougeon Brothers back in the late 70's while getting
       my degree in Naval Architecture at the University of Michigan.
       At that time I was impressed by the amount of testing and analysis
       they were doing.  This work has continued to date and they have
       an extensive set of testing and fatigue data for epoxy laminates.
    
    2) I read a couple of favorable articles in Wooden Boat by people
       who had used WEST brand epoxies for restoration and new
       construction. 
    
    3) About a year ago I started restoring a couple of wooden boats I ran
       into a person who had recent experience with WEST SYSTEM products.  He
       liked them and was willing to donate some to the sailing program that
       owned the boats.  Since that time the program has standardized on WEST
       brand epoxies for all construction and repair for both wooden and
       fiberglass boats. 
    
    Forrest

    The first time I looked into the world of epoxies I have been very
    surprise to notice that it did exist only two (2) epoxy rosin available
    on the market (at least in europe) one was made by Shell the other
    one by Dupont de Nemour (I forgot the name of the rosins!!) but
    that they was "hundreds" of catalyst which would transform the basic
    rosin from glue to printing ink. What the "retailer" does is to
    add either talc (gives a white cream) or slate powder (gives a black
    cream) to the rosin, which by the way is a pretty good deal as they
    will then increase the cost by few cents but the selling price by
    .... I have used various type of epoxy (I will not give you the
    brand name as they are french manufacturers) the lessons I gather
    are: the rosin and the catalyst must be of different color, ea: rosin
    white, catalyst black it help in the mixing (you will mixe untill
    you get a uniform grey without white or black tread) if you start
    with a brand use always the same as sometime different brand, probably
    made from one or the other rosin (in europe), will not stick to each
    other.
      But epoxy is not always the best choice to glue wood we do have
    in France and I am sure you get it too a glue made out of meat residues
    (bones, blood,...) which comes into two components, a powder and
    a rosin which is the best glue I have ever used the french name
    is "resorcine" (it is not a brand name) it is the type of glue used
    for marine plywood, one draw back of it is that the join must be
    very thin. (be carefull there is another type of biological glue
    a complex urea/formaline which have have been used with very poor
    results)
    jacques 

    System Three provides a lot of direct comparisons between their
    product(s) and West's. They've also advertised a "trial kit" for
    $10 or so. 
    
    I've used chem tech and have been happy with it. I got it because
    a friend who's done a lot of wood/epoxy work uses it. 
    
    If you're going to be using a lot of the stuff, check with local
    chemical supply houses or building supply places to see if you can
    get it by the drum. You'll save major $$$.
    
    Ed

    I have used both Gougeon Bros. and System 3 extensively. I am currently
    using System 3 in the construction of a 36' cold molded boat which
    I originally started using Gougeon.
    
    Both products are excellent boatbuilding epoxies. The Gougeon brothers
    themselves are probably the best engineers associated with epoxy
    building/formulation in the US, and have a lot of experience building
    high tech wooden boats and other structures. I have a lot or respect
    for their methods and results.
    
    So why am I using System 3?
    
    1. Because the product has a much wider range of working
    temperatures. The Gougeon brothers pretty much assume you have a
    large, heated shop with a controlled temperature, as they do. The
    extreme temperatures at which their product is usable are about
    55 to 85 degrees F; System 3 covers 35 to 95 degrees. Since I work
    in an unheated (and uncooled) shed, System 3 effectively gives me
    about 4 more months a year in which I can work.
    
    2. System 3 sets to a slightly more flexible (less brittle) plastic,
    which I like.
    
    3. Both systems are plenty strong enough.
    
    4. System 4 has a better engineered mixing pump, and the different
    hardeners can be mixed together to give an complete spectrum of
    glues for the whole temperature range.
    
    As it is, I buy all my epoxy from System 3 and all other stuff -
    gloves, mixing pots and sticks, fillers, etc. - from Gougeon, which
    has the best collection of associated products of anyone.
    
    From what I've seen, I'd recommend that you choose one of the above.
    How much will you be using? If the quantity is fairly large (>50
    or 100 pounds), choose one or the other freely. If quantities are
    small, you're probably better off with Gougeon which is sold over
    the counter in many more places (e.g. Jamestown supply and some
    good chandlers). System 3 is distributed as a commercial/industrial
    product in large quantities only (my usual minimum is a 5 gallon
    drum of resin or hardener, with 2 1/2 gal. of hardener available).
    
    If you're located with access to southern NH, feel free to visit
    me in Hampstead and have a look.
    
    Ross Faneuf
    

    Maybe I missed the recall notice?!...but I used to use an epoxy
    from Structural Polymer Systems called SPA Bond.  It was easy to
    work with, held well, and didn't give off the fumes that other epoxies
    did.  They used to advertise in WoodenBoat and Small Boat Journal
    but I have seen their ads in some time.  If anyone has any information
    about them and where I could get some more in the U.S., I'd appreciate
    the
    information.
    
    Thanx,
    
    Frank Conahan (sometime boatbuilder)

    Is anybody out there familiar with the WEST-System?
    
    	I am especially interested in cost, the various methods
    	(Gaugeon brothers etc.) and the effectiveness.
    
    	Currently I am considering to restore a wooden boat
    	built in 1960. Can I use the WEST-System for this
    	purpose as well (the structure of the boat is sound,
    	but a lot of painting and varnishing would be 
    	necessary)?
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Peter

    
    
    	This should maybe say: is anyone NOT familiar with West! It's great
    	stuff for fairing and mending after visiting rock gardens with
    	one's keel! 
    	As far as structural repairs: READ UP! I contributed to the design
    	and (a little) construction of a cold-molded boat; bst described as 
    	soaking strips of wood (and me) with thinned, low viscosity epoxy.
    	Anyway, mixing an matching untreated and treated wood is pretty
    	dicey. The epoxy is damn strong by itself, scary strong in wood.
    	But there's plenty of additives to modify the epoxy, and both West
    	and System 3 have refs available to schlubs like me.
    	Most marine mags have little coupons that you cut out, add a buck
    	or 2, send to the epoxy places, and short guides come. Experiment
    	and play first. The learning curve's pretty fast.
    	The one critical part is mixing. That's why they sell those
    	metering-pumps; too much of either part will weaken or rend
    	useless the mixture. Also thorough mixing is important.
    	Aside from that, it's pretty friendly stuff. Also every
    	boatyard is full of do-it-yourselfers who have already
    	played wit the stuff. Walk around on a warm day, and check
    	out all the West cans!
    	So good luck, hope she comes out as gorgeous as you can imagine,
    	without costing lotsa time!
    	Scott.
    
    

    There is a free brochure available at the point of sale displays
    where WEST epoxy is sold that describes some of the common repairs
    that can be made using the product.  There is also an expanded version
    of the same in booklet form for $2.00 US.  Cost for the epoxy is about
    $67/gallon in the US.  Add to that the various fillers and tools
    (rollers, brushes, mixing pots) and it turns out to be a premium priced
    product.  However, documentation is good and many people have had good
    results with it.
    
    If a copy of Wooden Boat magazine is available at your location,
    adverstisements for similar products can be seen.  
    
    - gene

    I have built 14 laminated ribs with WEST epoxy and it works well.
    
    Gregg