Conference unifix::sailing

RE:.0 by BRAT::CLARK

> in regard ro a comment contained in 861.23 from blaisdell,how do
> you get a sunfish up on a plane. is it strictly wind conditions
> and little technique or is it all technique. 

A sunfish will plane (in enough wind) with poor sailing.  The limiting
factors are:

Course:  A reaching course is best.  Closehauled no way, and running
         with more wind.
Centerboard:  A little better if the board is up part way.
Sail:  Hold the sheet "high" (Shoulder level) to increase twist and power.
       Slightly overtrim.  Let it out till it luffs, then trim in to
       stop, and then trim in a little more.
Weight placement:  Keep the boat flat.  Shift weight backwards somewhat
                   once you start to plane.
Wind:  Need about 10 to 15 knots.  Technique will allow planing with
       a little less wind, but get enough and everyone is off!

> can it be done with 2 on board?

Darlene and I total over 400lbs, and we have gotten a sunfish planing.
You need more wind with more weight, thats all.
    

Phil

.1 gives some good pointers. I have two additional suggestions:


1. Make sure its blowing hard with gusts on top of that. 20+ knots is great 
fun in a Sunfish.

2. The easiest way to get on plane is to sail a close reaching course and when 
a gust hits bear off onto a beam or broad reach. The gust puts the boat on a 
plane and as long as the wind stays reasonably strong you will stay on it.

If you are heading downwind and winds increase to planing conditions, then 
bear off on broad reach. It is common practice in racing dinghies to zig-zag 
downwind to stay on a plane. The extra speed more than makes up for the extra 
distance.

There are a couple of books specifically on Sunfish sailing and I imagine 
additional information can be found there. 

- Bob

    If the gusts are really starting to scream the broad reach offers
    less strain on the gear.  Assuming that you have the weight and
    stomach muscles to hold the boat down, the boat gets over powered,
    weather helm starts to become severe and you can SEE the strain
    as things begin bending. 
    
    Planing a Sunfish is lots of fun, but it's never fun to break a 
    tiller or rudder.

RE: .1
>>>     Slightly overtrim.  Let it out till it luffs, then trim in to
>>>     stop, and then trim in a little more.

A key to maximizing your sail's power is to keep it's angle relative to 
the wind about constant.  If you are broad reaching and begin to plane, 
you must sheet in as you gain speed in order to keep it up.  Here's why:

As you move at a constant speed, your boat's speed and direction combine 
with the wind's speed and direction to create what sailors call the 
Apparent Wind.  On broad reach, as you increase your boat speed, the 
apparent wind also increases AND the angle relative to the boat moves 
forward.  To keep your sail fully powered by keeping its angle to the 
apparent wind constant, you must change its angle relative to the boat --
by sheeting in.  Note that you in fact have increased its power too, since
the Apparent Wind Speed (AWS) serendipitously increases as your boat speed
increases. 

This is why those on a plane (in races typically) sometimes can stay on 
one when those who aren't can't get on one.

It's also why high-performance multihulls (C-cats, D-cats, the new 
SDYC America's Cup H-cat, for instance) don't bother with downwind sails
-- they sail so fast they're usually sailing upwind (relative to AWS) and
may never have the AWS more than 30 degrees abaft the beam (such as when
tacking downwind). 

J.

RE:.4 by EXPERT::SPENCER "John Spencer" 

>>>     Slightly overtrim.  Let it out till it luffs, then trim in to
>>>     stop, and then trim in a little more.

> A key to maximizing your sail's power is to keep it's angle relative to 
> the wind about constant.  If you are broad reaching and begin to plane, 
> you must sheet in as you gain speed in order to keep it up.  Here's why:

Correct, but:  As you sail close to the wind, you are more interested
in the lift/drag ratio than the total lift.  As you sail more with the
wind, the total force (vector sum of lift and drag) is more important.
By over-trimming the sail on a broad reach,  you maximize the lift and
the drag total.  As the AW angle decreases, the amount of overtrim must
decrease to continue to accelerate.  SO: on a broad reach, overtrim to
accelerate (get on a plane).  Overtrim in this case is about 10 degrees, 
so don't overdo it!!!


Phil

RE: -.1

Good point.  I was trying to make a very simple explanation, in the 
[possibly incorrect] assumption that a basic understanding of what's going 
on was lacking.

J.

    thanks very much to all of you.one more explanation  though.
    please define over trimming.
    
    thanks again.
    
    
                                Q

Re .0

If you were out yesterday, you should have had no problem planing. Yesterday, 
especially late afternoon, was exactly the kind of conditions Sunfish thrive 
in.

I sail on Winnipesaukee. I sailed for a 2-3 hours in my Catalina and then went
out in the Sunfish. From Wolfeboro, I sailed to Moose and Ship Islands and on
the way back I don't think I came off a plane until I ducked behind Sewall
Point. I'm not good at distances; but I would guess it was at least one mile on
a plane. Perfect Sunfish weather.

One thing that I don't think was mentioned in earlier notes was the need to
move aft when planing, especially when planing down a wave. What happens is
the bow goes under and there is a possibility of doing a somersault. I think
the correct sailing term is pitch-pole. By quickly moving all the way back
I've always been able to save the Sunfish when burying the bow, but I wasn't
always so lucky in a Lark (similar to a 420) which had spinnaker chute.
Watering pouring into a spinnaker chute is definitely not good. 

- bob

    well i finally "achieved the state of a plane" and found it to be
    exhilerating. granted it was only on a sunfish but it was still
    great. one thing i found was that you cannot do it without substantial
    wind,and i had it on newfound saturday.i think i was the only saqilboat
    on the whole lake most of the day. i really took a beating ,but
    learned a few things about what i don't know.it was absolutely
    fantastic.
    it did raise some questions however as i rolled it at least twice
    and fell off one other time. the wind was so strong at times that
    even though my butt was over the side the boat was heeled over and
    the clew was constntly in or brushing the water.was i doing something
    wrong? i felt that if i pulled mit in more that i would roll it
    again.           
    
    finally,i had a lot of trouble coming about. i truly felt i had
    sufficient
    forward speed i still got ironed and immeiately became "captain
    sternway". any pointers??
    
    again thanks for the advice in 867 as it helped a lot
    

    I have sailed a Sunfish some in really windy weather. Under those
    conditions, it requires a lot of leverage to keep the clew out of
    the water. That means not just leaning your upper body over the
    side but hooking your toes on the far side, having your thighs on
    the edge of the boat and hanging your fanny over the side too.
    
    I found that with 2 adults really hiking out, that one could keep
    the clew out of the water on a LOT of wind. As soon as the clew
    really gets into the water, you are going over. (At least I was)
    
    Happy sailing!
    Bill
    

RE:   < Note 888.0 by BRAT::CLARK >

>    well i finally "achieved the state of a plane" and found it to be
>    exhilerating. granted it was only on a sunfish but it was still
>    great. one thing i found was that you cannot do it without substantial
>                                      ^^^^^^^^^^
>    wind,and i had it on newfound saturday.

well,  maybe you cannot, but after you get better at feeling the "rush" of the
plane, then you will be able to lift out in some lighter wind.  it does take
practice. 

>    it did raise some questions however as i rolled it at least twice
>    and fell off one other time. the wind was so strong at times that
>    even though my butt was over the side the boat was heeled over and
>    the clew was constntly in or brushing the water.was i doing something
>    wrong? i felt that if i pulled mit in more that i would roll it
>    again.           

a couple of things.  when you are not quite tight to the wind, you may have a
habit of over-trimming you main.  this will cause you to heel more w/o gaining
any speed.  when you have picked a course, a good idea is to let out the
sheets until the sail luffs just a little then bring it in 'till it stops
luffing.

the other thing is that no matter how much weight you hang over the side,
sometimes you have TOO much wind.  a good idea when you are close hauled is to
have the main ready to dump.  if you start to go over from a gust,  let out
some main sheet.  this will dump some of the "heeling wind" out of the main.
if you let it all out you may find you are now dumping to the windward side,
so this also takes some practice.  if you are in a really strong constant
wind, you may find you need to luff you main just a tad all the time you are
close hauled to keep yourself from going over all the time.  the main is
better to luff than the jib, because you get your steerage from the jib, and
most of your heel from your main.
    
>    finally,i had a lot of trouble coming about. i truly felt i had
>    sufficient
>    forward speed i still got ironed and immeiately became "captain
>    sternway". any pointers??
    
when coming about in a small boat in strong or week wind, one of the neet
little tricks that racing taught me was "roll tacking".    

this may be impossible in a sunfish, but it basicly includes rocking the boat
as you go around, to keep the boat from tipping while allowing you to make
fast turns.  the faster the turn, the more boat speed kept, and the less
"captain sternway".

i would gladly explain "roll tacking", but i don't think i could in writting.
send me mail with your phone number, and maybe i could explain it on the
phone.

bruce

    One trick that I was taught (for down wind sailing - i.e. once you
    are on the plane) was a bit like riding a bicycle without holding
    on to the handles.
    
    When going up wind (on the beat, as close to the wind as possible),
    the trick is to keep the mast over the boat. If the mast moves
    one way, then let the sail out (or pull it in) until the mast is
    back over the boat. (Sounds simple, doesn't it!!).
    
    When going on a reach, broad reach or run (i.e. not upwind); the
    trick is to keep the boat under the mast. This results in the same
    results (you don't get [too] wet), but is a totally different
    technique. What is involved is that when the boat starts tipping
    away from you (i.e. the wind gets up a bit), then the mast moves
    to one side of the vertical line above the boat; at that stage (or
    just before it happens!) you need to steer away from the wind, to 
    ensure that the boat moves back under the mast.
    
    This is the technique that means you bear away from the wind when
    you get a gust, and luff back up again when the wind dies, and gives
    great speed through the water. The other advantage of bearing away, 
    is that you reduce the healing moments, 'cos the wind is blowing more 
    from behind, and less from the side.
    
	Cheers, Chris

RE:.0 by BRAT::CLARK

> it did raise some questions however as i rolled it at least twice
> and fell off one other time. the wind was so strong at times that
> even though my butt was over the side the boat was heeled over and
> the clew was constntly in or brushing the water.

In heavy winds, you need to start luffing the sail a little to control heel.

> finally,i had a lot of trouble coming about. i truly felt i had sufficient
> forward speed i still got ironed and immeiately became "captain sternway". 
> any pointers??

Coming about in lots of wind in a Sunfish is not easy.  The boat is too
flat bottomed to roll tack,  doesn't carry hardly at all, and is a pig in
general.  All I can really say is that it is possible to do it.  Hint time:

A lot has to do with keeping the tiller and sheet under control all the time.  
As you duck across the boat, figure out a way to change the sheet hand and
the tiller hand without dropping either one.

If you end up with sternway,  push the tiller away from you, and completely
ease the sheet.  When the bow has come to about 45 degrees from the wind,
then put the tiller to centered, and trim the sail to the point that it
is not luffing and do it quickly.  If you trim to slow, the sail will pull
you back up to irons.


Phil