Conference unifix::sailing

    
    
    
    	read note 263.79 - then read it again.
    
    	good luck,
      
    
    	richard

    OOPS!..  That is HOLE IN THE WATER.. It is hard to throw money into
    a WHOLE of anything (Except a WHOLE lot of bills)!!
    
   						Paul S. 
    						Live in NH.
    						SWS PSS @OFO. 
    						EMASS::SICA

    .1   Thanks.  I had already printed that one out and added it to
    		  my calculations.

    RE: 807.0
    
    1. Inboard vs Outboard
    
       Let me preface this with the fact that we have an outboard on
       our HOLE IN THE WATER, but would love an inboard.
       
          Outboard Advantages:
            
             Lower Cost per HP.
             Easier to maintain (you can take it off and take it to
               a dealer).
             Can give you more manuverability, if you rotate the motor
               during turns.
             Leaves more interior space (you don't have to make room
               for fuel tanks, filler house, blowers, engine, stiffing
               box, etc.)
             
         Outboard Disadvantages:
             Noisier
             Consumes more fuel for the distance traveled.
             Usually can not be mounted along the vessel centerline,
               so thrust is unbalanced, and pulls somewhat.
             Very hard to use in high seas - if you mount it too low,
               it can get swamped by passing waves, if you mount it
               too high is can pop out of the water.
             Most (but not all) outboards to are not low enough or have
               the right type of prop to give you adequate reverse thrust.
             Manuveurability at low speed is poor if you have the outboard
               fixed. Inboard props are usually infront of rudder, giving
               you a good current over the rudder surface and hence
               transverse forces. Outboards are mounted on the stern,
               so until you make headway, the rudder doesn't do a thing.

             
       In general we would have preferred an inboard beacuse coming into
       Newburyport when the channel is kicking up is difficult at best with
       an outboard, but the reality is cost. Retrofitting a new inboard to
       an existing sailboat is anywhere from $2000-$3500 and will only
       generate you a $1000 increase in eventual selling price. In the size
       you are looking at most will come with an outboard. Anything bigger
       than about 26-27 footer will require an inboard since generally the
       transoms can't take the weight/thrust of larger than 15 HP outboard. 
       
       If you go with an inboard, diesel does have the advantage that it is
       safer in that Diesel has a very high flash point. This translates as
       to not requiring the ventilation/blowers that are required on a gas
       version. Used prices reflect this desirability and you will
       generally find that diesel versions are more expensive than gas
       versions for the same price. But remember that the venerable ATOMIC
       4 is a very good engine that has proven itself in many a boat. 
       
       /jim
       

RE:.0 by EMASS::SICA "Seek the Beach!!"

Advice (free):

0) Begin cheaper.  Try to get rides on other peoples boats.  Ask questions.
Read.  Beginning sailing by Colgate.  Chapmans.

1) Start cheap!  Do some sailing at a club (Community boating in Worchester
and Boston are very cheap and nice, there are also salt water places that
are more expensive, but the experience will save you bucks later!  Try Boston
Harbor Sailing).  Get experience on a boat that someone else maintains!  Start
to buy things like foul weather gear and charts.  Learn what you like.

2) When buying, do lots of shopping around.  Remember it is a buyers market!
Look for extra equipment and sails.

> (This is part my brothers idea) 

GREAT.  Partnerships are nice!  BUT make a written agreement first!

> (Personally I think the lake is an excellent idea but I'll ask any way).

I think lake sailing is nice.  Ocean sailing is nicer, and scarier.    

In terms of what boat, find out what is important to you:
1) cost: Can you afford it?  Will you not have money to do something else?
2) does it do what you want it to?  Not only sail, but sleeping, storage
   and general comfort.  (stove?  How nice of stove?  Head? (bathroom) Is
   the head 'nice' enough? lights and stereo?  TV????) See part 1 above!


Phil

    I sailed day boats for many years and then 10 years ago decided
    I would like a yacht. The advice I was given then by an experianced
    yacht owner stood me in good stead. ( I followed it) I went and
    did a number of practical courses at a yachting school leading to some 
    basic qualifications. I then put my name down for crewing at a yacht
    club to get further experiance and also see what different kinds
    of yacht were like (I got plenty of sailing and made some good
    friends). After a couple of years I started chartering different
    kinds of yacht futher refining my ideas. Result 18 months ago I
    took delivery of our first yacht. 1800 nautical miles later we are
    still delighted with our choice and will not end up as a lot of
    people do changing their craft every couple of years because the
    one they bought is not quite right.
              
    Good Luck and have fun.                                                         
              

    Thanks for the replies..
    
    This is the scoop.  We found the boat (Providing is passes inspection.)
    1986 HUNTER 255.  Cost ..19,890.  All the equiptment is included
    and a list will be provided..(Some kind of package when the boat
    was purchased new including 9.9hp Johnson outboard.)  Also includes 
    some nicities such as compass... Trailer included and in excellent
    shape, no rust or corrosion and definitily galvinized steel.  
    Approximate value 3500.  The "Blue book" (according to my insurance
    company) of the boat alone is low 18900 and high 21000. (That does 
    not include the trailer.)
    The interior is in excellent condition, and the outside appears
    in good shape, (there are a few gouges though).  I'll keep you
    informed as things progress.
    As for sailing, I'm signing up for some of the courses at the Boston
    Sailing Center.  The boat will only be sailed if we have an experienced
    crew! (IE that can teach us...) Otherwise, bobbing in the sun is
    still fun!
    
    NOTE:  I need to find a reputable surveyor!!!!!  The boat is in
    Merrimack NH.  HELP!!!  I decided, after reading many of these notes,
    that there can be a lot that can be over looked and a trained eye/ear
    is needed.!


    I'll worry about mooring near the end of the season as we will probably
    not get the boat to the water before then.
    

    	WELL.....After a long deliberatiation, we decided that at this
    time we are not going to buy the boat.  Our decision was based on
    several things :
    
    	1.  The baot was in good shape, but there were spider cracks
    in locations that we could not understand unless the boat had been
    severly stressed out.  (Every time you look at the same boat your
    eyes open more to reality.)
    
    	2.  The costs associated with the boat.  We did a whole lot
    of searching for a good place to put the boat and only found 1 that
    was on the northern side of winnipasakee(sp).  The catch was that
    we had to put in out own mooring and in order to do that had to
    file with the state for approval, sink a mooring, and pay ~25$.
    Not to mention all the other costs ahead.
    
    	3. We both wanted to do some scuba diving this year.
    
    	BUT!!! Next year is a whole nother story!!!
    	We are not going to give up!  We will eventually get a boat!
    	In the mean time, the sailing lessons will get out feet
    wet.
    
    	Enjoy your sailing and hopefully in the not so distant future,
    we can all meet on the water!