Conference unifix::sailing

    I was in a similar boat a few winters ago - depressed that the season
    was over and that I couldn't afford to head south to charter - I
    called a few of the windsurfing outfits (Europa, etc.) hoping to
    find rentals - didn't find rentals but did find a "hardwater"
    sailor that invited me to join him.  It was pretty exciting - gusts
    create acceleration you wouldn't believe.  While I've lost this
    kind gentleman's name, ice sailors seem to be a pretty tight community
    intent upon winning converts to the fold - calling around like I
    did might do it or you might try to make friends at sailing areas
    (Winnip., Lakeville in So. MA).  Good Luck!

    I to would like to try this type of sailing.  Does anybody know
    where one might rent this type of boat?  I think I would feel kind
    of funny hanging around trying to beg a ride.
    
    If anybody knows more I'd be interested in hearing from them.
    
    Cheers (only four more month till the cover comes off)
    
    Tom
    

    I have an iceboat (homemade mongrel) that takes the sail from my
    Sunfish, which my uncle made for me 3 years ago. I have hardly used
    it for a combination of reasons that include not being around good
    ice very often and not wanting to go out alone, especially until
    I learn more about the specifics if ice boating.
    
    I would be interested in getting together with others in central
    N.H. (Winnipesaukee and Massabesic are 2 areas which I am aware
    of iceboating happening ) and get some experience.
    
    I work in MK1 (moving to ZK3 in January)
    
    Bill French
    Com-Pac 19 (Winnipesaukee), Sunfish, dinghy and canoe user in the
    warmer months.
    

For information on hard-water windsurfing (icesurfing??), pick up a copy 
of the New England Sailboard Journal, available at most windsurfing 
dealers.  This season they always have many artciles on it, including ads, 
and info on where you can go to watch/learn/perhaps try out.  There's a 
multi-day world-class championship event held each winter up on 
Winnepesaukee, for instance.

Having tried iceboating a couple times *years* ago in a DN (the Laser of 
iceboats, both in cost and performance), I suspect one of the problems in 
getting involved is that the most popular classes are one-person boats, 
and unless the wind is under 10kts and steady, neophytes (like me) can 
get some real surprises.  First time out I started a gentle turn, and 
maybe due to a gust (who knows?) did a 360 before I could blink.  The 
boat's owner came out after me and decided to sail us both back slowly, me
on the runner board. 

They used to icesail on Lake Quannapowitt in Wakefield...do they still?

John.

    Where can you get plans for an el-cheapo iceboat?
    Thanks,
    Tom
    

    

    	--------------------------------
        |____________________________/
            |__|             |__|
    
    One surf board.
    Straps around it (using the boards roof rack straps?) 
    The straps hold under the board a piece of wood, onto which are
    bolted three piece of angle iron - two at the front. One at the
    back (Fixed into place via the skeg hole as well).
    
    The angle iron (from a hardware shop, or local blacksmith) looks 
    (looking forward) like:
                   
    		______
    		|  
    		|
    	
    The flat surface can be bolted on to a piece of wood. The vertical
    surface will need a curve on its front end, so looking sideways:
    
    		-----------------------/
		|		      /
    		|___________________/
    
    
    Now for the sail..... Just put the SMALL sailboard rig in place,
    wear a life jacket (to absorb the knocks!), and a good pair of
    gloves....

    re: .6
    Great, thanks.  That is better than the umbrella and ice skates
    I had been used to.  Probably tack better also.
    Tom
    

    Tack ?? Now there is something that I hadn't thought of.....
    
    The people who use these things where I sail seem to find that the
    banks approach quite quick enough, and its easiest to pick it up
    and turn it around.....
    
    You could try modifying the front two angle-irons so that they are
    on a piece of wood that swivels, with the swivel through the dagger
    board slot to a foot control of some sort ????
    
    If you want to turn on the original, a dragging foot seems reasonably
    OK.......

    If you want to try a building project, Gougeon Bothers, best-known
    purveyor of boatbuilding epoxy, will sell you the plans for the
    DN (Detroit News) iceboat, a smallish but extremely capable iceboat.
    Building it is a few months spare-time project. Address:
    
    	Gougeon Bros.
    	706c Martin St.
    	Bay City MI 48706
    
    	517-684-7286
    
    Ross Faneuf
    

    
          GREAT!  I called Gougeon Bros. yesterday and bought the plans
    for a DN. If anybody is interested in a set of copies, send me a
    mail message. Maybe if this grows into anything we can start a
    "Hardwater" sailing club.
    
                                                Rapid Randy

    Having been at the helm (?) of a DN a couple of times I would say
    they are definitely exciting.  Tell us more about the plans when
    you get them.
    
    However, ice boating is to sailing about like ice skating is to
    swimming.  If you are really a hard core sailor you should check
    out "frostbiting".  This consists of racing dinghies on any open
    body of water through the howling and shifty gusts of winter. Sounds
    like fun, huh!!!??

RE: Tacking

Since iceboats can go three times the windspeed (at least the good 
performers can, like a DN on occasion), they usually jibe to save the 
equipment and make a smoother transition.  Even jibing, the wind stays in 
your face through the entire turn!

J.

re .10

I own a Gougeon DN (bought used), and unless you are a very skilled craftsman,
I'm not sure you want to build the Gougeon DN as your first ice boat. I would
suggest you contact William B. Sarns Company and ask them about the SARNs
plans which are reportedly much easier to build. Sarns is the major supplier
of DN hardware (runners, bow chocks, steering assembly, rigging, etc.) so if
you are considering building you probably want to be talking with them anyway.
Sarns' address is: 

	William B. Sarns Company
	38101 Huron Point Drive
	Mt. Clemens, Michigan 48045
	tel (313)463-4269

A useful book for you to have would be "THINK ICE - The DN Ice Boating Book". 
Contact:

	IDNIYRA (International DN Ice Yacht Racing Association)
	21 Marian Street
	Burlington, VT. 05401

BTW - DN kits are available from several sources and, if you want to build, 
this may be the way to go. Another option is to buy unfinished hulls and do 
the rigging and finish work yourself. If you're serious, send mail for more 
info. I have a supplier list and can give you some idea of how much things 
cost. 

- Bob

    Can anyone tell me the difference between skills, excitement and etc
    between Ice Sailing and Snow Sailing. Can ice boats sail nicely
    over packed snow. I spoke to someone once that said the season is
    so unpredictable and short for Ice sailing that he sold his boat.
    I just learned of Snow Sailing (I think that's what it's called)
    where you you have 3 long cross-country-like skies under a rig similar
    to a sail board. I think of Ice Sailing as 3 skates in a triangle
    and a lot faster and dangerous. Which do you like and why?

    
    Well, I'm only an observer, not a participant, but just this weekend
    I drove by one of my favorite lakes. There have been a fair number
    of ice boats 'anchored' out there all winter but too much snow the
    last month or so ... and then   AND THEN   yesterday I saw one of
    the ice boats on skis - didn't move anywhere near as well as when
    on it's skates but I know it went faster than a water boat would
    have! I wasn't close enought to see much for detail - this was not
    the little guys (DN?) but a bigger model. My brother sails a DN
    I think it is - I'll ask him about the skis. This is on Bald Eagle
    which is in White Bear Lake home of the Johnson scows. My brother
    has an E scow (28') on there - also the is one A boat (40') - these
    things are faster than cats in many conditions. But not this time
    of year! Wind chill was about -35 when I sawe them out there. Give
    me summer time with the improved scenery anytime!
    

    
    Well, I checked with my brother about the snowboat that I saw. It
    belongs to a friend of his and my brother has sailed it on both
    ice and snow. The boat is a fairly high-tech self built boat and
    is essential a NITE boat scaled up about 25%. The skis are wooden
    about 8 " wide by 48 " long and curved up at the ends (or course!).
    They are designed to surround the skate and are adjustable for heighth.
    Normally they run with about 1 " of the skate sticking down under
    the ski so if the hit an icy spot the skate takes over. The skis
    have a plastic bottom with sharp ridges running lengthwise so as
    to cut down side slip. He said they ridges look a lot like rows
    of saw teeth with the vertical edge outboard. Sort of like 
                 B
    	|/ |/ |/ L \| \| \|
                 A
    		 D
    		 E		front view of course (or rear)
    
    The boat is slower on snow and has a funny heavy floating sensation.
    This boat has shocks on the rear. The owner intends to take it to
    the desert this summer and put tires on it!!
    
    Hope this helps anyone looking at snow boats.