Conference unifix::sailing

In New England I think there are two small boats that you would want to look 
at: the Day Sailer I and the Flying Scot. The Day Sailer class is probably the 
largest one design in New England, but the Flying Scot is also a large class 
and, from what I hear and see, it is the faster growing class. 

I had a Day Sailer I and loved it, but reality is that the class has had some
manufacturer problems. The good news is that the class has a new manufacturer
and these problems may be history. 

Despite my affection for the Day Sailer I think today if I was buying a new
small boat, I think it would be the Flying Scot. Both the DS and FS are among
the best small boats for racing and cruising, but when it comes to quality and
class standards the FS is probably better. The FS is also the faster growing
class and is perhaps more likely to hold its value. Both classes attract very
nice people and class regattas are friendly, family affairs compared to the
ruthless sailing in some other classes I could name. 

I'm giving the nod to the FS, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy either boat.
However, if you buy a DS make sure it's a DS I. If you're thinking about
racing, you might decide by checking out what is sailed on your pond and buy
that. 

Give me a call if you wish. 

- Bob

PS: The Mistral is a nice boat and can be towed by smaller cars, but it does
have a smaller cockpit. Depending on how tall you are and how many you hope to 
sail with, you may find it too small. 

PS2: I like Hobies, but consider them sailing machines, as opposed to 
sail boats. You will need a big piece of water, reliable wind, and crew with a 
sense of humor to enjoy a Hobie. My wife likes sailing, but she has no, I mean 
NO!, interest in a Hobie.

    I would have to go along with .1 on the O'Day Day Sailor.  They've
    been around about 20 years and are still in production . . . albeit
    as the Day Sailor II.  It may be the most popular boat ever produced
    (Mr. Berens will correct me on this if I'm wrong).  This means that
    parts are readily available and your selection of used boats will
    be superb.  
    
    Regatta Point Community Sailing in Worcester uses O'Day Day Sailor
    I's to teach the general public how to sail.  That's a good indication
    of how forgiving and durable these boats are.  

The Day Sailer II is out of production (thank goodness) and everyone please 
note: O'DAY NO LONGER MANUFACTURES DAY SAILERS. O'Day does make a O'Day 17 but 
it IS NOT a Day Sailer. The title Day Sailer belongs to boats licensed by the 
Day Sailer Association.

O'Day originally made the so-called Day Sailer I; but in the mid-70's changed 
to the Day Sailer II. The class accepted the Day Sailer II but lived to regret 
the decision. The double hulls on the DS II have a nasty habit of leaking 
(mostly surge thru the centerboard trunk) and, everything else equal, could 
always be found at the end of the fleet. More recently O'Day stopped 
production of the DS II and came out with the O'Day 17. They originally called 
the boat a DS III but the class had to reject the boat because they had 
changed the hull shape. The contract between O'Day and the class association 
said the Class had to approve any changes but O'Day totally ignored the 
contract. This is just one more example of O'Day always redesigning their 
boats. I would never buy an O'Day anything, excepting only older DS Is and 
Rhodes 19s.

So where is the Day Sailer today? When O'Day came out with the II the class 
gave DS I manufacturing rights to Spindrift. Spindrift made some good hulls but 
other gear, especially the mast, was below what was necessary to make the boat 
competitive. When the Spindrift contract expired, the Class asked for this to 
be corrected but Spindrift balked saying they wouldn't be able to sell all the 
boats they wanted. So the class has a new manufacturer - Precision. I haven't 
seen one of their boats myself but people that have say they are quite nice.

Also, I used to be a member of Regatta Point. When I was there they used 
DS IIs.

- Bob

    agree with all the above , the daysailor is a nice learning boat.
    Stay away from Hobie Cats until you learn to sail. they are like
    learning to fly in a f-16. they accelerate at a scary pace, go into
    irons in a second, and will pitchpole too fast on a run.
    
    i would also say stay away from real small sailboats like sunfish.
    although millions of people have learned on them, they are quite
    twicthy at first. the daysailor is a bit heavy and gives you a bit
    more time to correct any mistake you make before making you pay
    for it (i.e. like to swim???).
    
    also, start on a lake or pond, the ocean has tides, currents, and
    waves that just get in the way when you are trying to learn.
    
    
    have fun.
    
    john
    

    You say that you want a first boat but you didn't say how much sailing
    experience you have.  If none then I suggest you join a local club
    or crew for a friend before you decide which kind on boat you want.
    If you enjoy speed & getting wet then look into a cat - just take
    it easy & avoid conditions you can't handle until you are comfortable
    with the boat.  My wife & I had very little sailing experience when
    we bought our first (& only) boat - a Tornado (20 ft cat).  We were
    racing in a few weeks & getting killed (in fact we still get killed).
    
    The point is decide what kind of sailing you want to do first and
    then get the boat.  If you want a cat then get a cat - otherwise
    you stuck with a boat you won't enjoy very long & then you have
    to sell it.  Just remember that if you get a cat you need plenty
    of open water for sailing.
    
    Good luck - buy a cat (my brother-in-law has a Hobie 16 for sale)

I can not say enough good things about Regatta Point Community Sailing
in Worcester.  They have lasers, a keelboat (110?), sailboards, a finn
or two as well as the DS-2's.  Good people, but the lake is narrow,
making for shifty winds.


Phil

    Does anyone have any comments about the Lowell Community Boating
    program?  They run a rowing program in the summer which I have
    participated in.  The boat house also serves as the headquarters
    for the Sailing Program but I don't know how good the instruction
    is (if any) or what fees may be involved.  If anyone has any
    information I'd like to know.
    			
    			A future sailor (I hope!)
    				Tom
    

    
    I took sailing classes at the Lowell Regatta last summer. I got
    a discounted price because we were a group. It was I think $50 or
    so. That includes lessons (Basic I) and once you've passed an exam
    (written and practical) then you can take out a boat on your own
    from 10:00 am till 7:00 pm. They sail Widgeons (sort of like a bathtub
    with sails!). Classes were small and they seem to have a fair number
    of new boats now. 
    The instructors were pretty green when I took the classes but there
    is a new director and perhaps the quality of instruction has improved.
    
    On the whole though it was fun and the price was right.
    
    		-charlie

    I would like to re-iterate what .5 and .6 said...
    
    Before you go out and buy a boat you should get some sailing time
    in.  There are two things you should be doing, first get involved
    with a sailing club (there are many in the area).  The club will
    teach you how to sail, not only how to do it, but how to do it safely
    (which is very important).  The second thing that you need to do
    is to get as much experience on different kinds of boats.  This
    will help you to decide what kind of boat to buy (fast/racer, cruiser
    etc..)  I like to think of it like buying a car, you wouldn't go
    into a car dealership and buy something before you know how to drive,
    and know how you like to drive...  So take this summer to learn,
    and try other boats, and later in the season (or over the winter)
    get the kind of boat you want.
    
    I would also like to say that I am very happy to hear the good words
    said about Regatta Point Community Sailing.  I have been involved
    with the program for fifteen years, and am currently the President.
    It is a very good program and many people enjoy it.  The only negative
    point of the whole place is that the lake is kinda small, but it
    does help people to learn because the wind shifts quite a bit and
    you have to pay more attention to what's happening (or is gonna
    happen).
    
    Well, I've rambled on enough.
    
    						-Dave
    

    
    Thanks for the opinions and advice in all the replies to my note.
    I should have been more specific about my sailing background, which
    consists of driving tech dingies and flying juniors around the Charles
    River and various lakes near Hanover (NH).  I know basically how
    to handle a small boat.
    
    We've continued looking around at little boats, mostly at shows.
    Believe it or not, we thought the Hobie Daysailer III was a little
    _big_ for our purposes.  At the moment we're considering a 
    Capri 14.2.  Any opinions on that boat, or boats like it?

     I just read this note again and I have to reply.  
	 I too wanted a trailerable boat for lakes and
maybe the ocean some day. When I was younger I went to many summer camps 
and this is where most of my sailing experience lies. A long time ago, 
about '75ish, my father was a member of a club that raced on Farm Pond in 
Sherborn Ma. At the time they were racing 470s. I crewed one of these boats
once. When I decided to look for a trailerable boat the image of what I 
wanted was something like a 470, a sloop not a sunfish. One day I picked up
a Want advertiser. I looked through all the ads and found one short ad for
a 470. I went to look at it and it was what I remembered. I bought the boat
in September '86. My first time out I was alone, though the winds were light.
My biggest problem with this boat has been over enthusiasm. I want to go 
out all the time especially when the wind is high. I have had an impossible
time finding anyone to crew for me. I hope that it won't be as difficult
in May as it was in November. The boat is light and I've learned how to 
right it quickly after a capsize. I've yet to capsize with anyone with me.
It is a sloop rig  with a spinnaker. I don't know how to fly a spinnaker,
but I'm goin to learn this summer. It's a two person boat, but I sail it 
alone more than with a crew. It's not bad to set up, I can step the mast and
and rig it single handed and be under sail within a half an hour. At first 
it took me 45 minutes. It won't take a bunch of friends out for a day on the 
water but two people can have a lot of fun. I want to go sail around Lake
Champlain this summer. One thing that can be a problem is that I have only
found one marina that knows what a 470 is. I seem to be the only one who knows 
about 470s. One other person on this conference said they had a 470 for a 
summer and loved it. He sold it because he couldn't take out his family in
it. My boat is about 13 years old. I can't wait for spring so I can go 
sailing again. It's fun having a boat of my own.

     				"Some days the gales are howling
     				Some days the sea 's still as glass"
     
     						Geoff

    Back when I learned how to sail at Community Boating on the Charles
    River, in Boston, they had a fleet of 15' Cape Cod Mercury class
    sloops.  They were a very comfortable, stable and roomy boat for
    day sailing.  We sometimes took them out into Boston Harbor.  Of
    course, my definition of day sailing may differ from others.  I
    once spent two weeks cruising along the coast of Maine, living aboard
    a twelve foot Firefly class racing sloop.
    
    Community Boating usually has an open house, free to the public,
    on the first weekend of April.  It's well worth a look for anyone
    within range of Boston who wants to learn how to sail.
    

    
    	Don't rush in a buy a boat before learning how to sail.  Back
    when I taught sailing there was a couple who bought a laser II to
    teach themselves how to sail.  They could not have picked a worse
    boat as the were both large and quite clumsy.  After spending two
    hours trying to put it together they went out for a sail in a 15
    knot breeze.  They never made it more than 300' from the shore in
    the three hours they were out.  We finally got them back in safely,
    but not before they had damaged the boat and scared themselves silly.
    They sold the boat at the end of the summer, without ever taking
    it out again.  
    	Take you time, learn how to sail and get a boat that matches
    your personality. 
                   			=Ralph=

    
    	   Through the three years of membership at the Regatta Point
    	Community Sailing, I have seen manny members purchase their
    	first sailboat. The two small trailerable sailboats that has
    	impressed me the most, is the Mistral and the Designers Choice.
    	Both sailboats are equipped with excelent hardware, but the
    	spiniker shoot on the Mistral is the big plus. Several times
    	I have found myself wearing the spiniker wile rounding the
    	mark. 
    
    	   I have owned a Hobbie and the Windsurfer is now my Yacht,
    	but for New England, a sound small trailerable sailoat is your
    	best choice. If I was to buy this type of boat now it would
    	be the Mistral.
    
    							John
    PS. Thanks for your note 489.10.

    Just read your note on small boats, particularly the Capri 14.2.
    I purchased a used one about 18 months ago for my first boat.
    Didn't know anyone who owned a sailboat, just that I wanted to
    have one.  Looked at the Holder 14, Daysailer (18 ft.), 
    AMF Sunbird (16 ft.), and Lightning.
    
    Bought the Capri 14.2 because their is large fleet in the area,
    it is very forgiving, seats 4 adults comfortably, and is easy
    to trailer and maintain.
    
    I didn't know how to sail, took one lesson and read alot and
    watched the PBS lessons by Robbie Doyle at least a dozen times and
    basically taught myself.  It is an excellent beginners boat
    and actually performs quite well.  For the price, I believe
    it is an excellent value for protected waters sailing.
    
    It is manufactured by Catalina and seems to be of decent
    quality construction.  From a novice point of view, I highly
    recommend it based on the type of sailing you want to do.
    

    re .15: thanks.  We bought one, and it's working out really well.
    Our trailerable Catalina 19 is probably two years away...

    
    	Look like you want someone here to talk you into it.....  How are
    you going to use it.  Day sail off the trailer, race it etc....  If you
    are thinking of racing forget it.....  Also how handy you are with
    fixing things.....  The sort of fixed leak bothers me......
    
    
    Forrest

    re .17

    I favor DS1s; but, about the leak, if the water only enters while
    sailing versus sitting on a mooring then I'm going to suggest that the
    major leak may be fixed and the water entering the double hull may be
    from water surge in the centerboard slot. This is a minor, but almost
    unsolvable problem associated with  DS IIs. The problem is that the DS
    II centerboard is operated by lines that must pass thru the centerboard
    trunk. Most DSIs use a lever to raise and lower the centerboard.

    - Bob

    
    	Hasn't *everybody* owned, or at least sailed/crewed in one? 
    Mine leaked like a sieve, but built up my arms! The off-season after my
    first, a fellow owner got me in touch with a place (now long gone) that
    copied a known good brass centerboard fitting (lever/o-ring/plate/etc)
    which soleved the leak problem almost completely. If it's only the
    trunk, great! Invest a couple bucks in cloth and resin, epoxy if you'd
    rather, and seal that baby up!
    
    	$1100 sounds high, somehow, in this market- is the trailer pristine
    or something? Of course, I _am_ out of touch-
    And admittedly CHEAP-
    
    	But more fun/$ you may never have- make sure you get a chute!!
    
    	Scott