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Conference unifix::sailing

Title:SAILING
Notice:Please read Note 2.* before participating in this conference
Moderator:UNIFIX::BERENS
Created:Wed Jul 01 1992
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2299
Total number of notes:20724

469.0. "Vancouver 27 comments" by LILAC::MAYO () Tue Jan 20 1987 15:50

    Does anyone have any comments about a Vancouver 27, 1982 as
    an offshore cruising boat and liveaboard for two??
    Thanks,
    Tom

T.RTitleUserPersonal
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469.1how do you feel?2195::BERENSAlan BerensWed Jan 21 1987 08:4722
Living aboard: It really depends on you. The weight and volume of
necessary food, water, fuel, clothing, books, and much boat equipment
are relatively independent of boat size. I am becoming quite creative
finding space on a 32 foot boat for all the equipment and supplies we'd
like to have along for extended cruising. I'd find a 27 foot boat too
small for living aboard for more than, say, a month. Moreover, the
smaller the boat the less space there is separating you from an angry
mate. 

Offshore cruising: Extended passages in small boats are possible (eg,
the Pardeys, John Guzzwell's circumnavigation in a 20 foot boat, alone,
etc), but the risk and discomfort are greater than on a somewhat larger
boat. Some surveys of long term cruising folk indicate that 35 to 40
feet is the optimum size for a crew of two. Surveys also indicate that
the most successful crew is a crew of two -- one of each gender. What
you think is large enough is really your decision. For me, 27 feet is
too small. I'd be willing to sail my 32 foot boat around the world. I'd
much rather circumnavigate a 40 foot boat, but cost then becomes a major
issue. 

Alan

469.2surveys??LILAC::MAYOWed Jan 21 1987 13:2311
    Can you point me in the direction of those "surveys" for greater
    insight?  I thought I read that the Vancouver was rated fairly
    well for offshore stuff by Practical Sailor, as opposed to some
    racer-cruiser types that would need beefing up before casting
    off.
    I agree with you in principle about size limitations.  The problem
    you noted with a 35' or 40' in expense is the same for me but in
    the 28' to 34' category.
    Tom
    

469.3clarificationPULSAR::BERENSAlan BerensWed Jan 21 1987 14:5329
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by surveys. I was not 
referring to the construction, per se, of boats. Rather, I was referring 
to questioning experienced sailors about what they like and dislike 
about their boats and equipment. 

Jimmy Cornell in Modern Ocean Sailing (I think the title is) asked a 
large number of sailors who have been cruising longer than a year to 
rate various things on a scale of 1 to 10. For example, on a scale of 1 
to 10, how do your rate your

	cutter rig
	diesel engine
	propane stove
	windvane
	autopilot
	etc

There were also, as I recall, some wishful thinking questions. What size
boat would you like to have? what rig? what keel shape? etc. A 2nd
edition of Cornell's book was published recently. There have also been
articles published in Cruising World and Sail along the same lines. 

I don't think that PS has specifically evaluated the Vancouver 27. PS 
tends to look at boats which have been built in large numbers. I think 
that PS's position would be that there are boats, large and small, that 
are safe offshore and boats, large and small, that aren't. The 
difference tends to be in basic design and quality of construction. Some 
deficiencies are correctable, some aren't.

469.4thanksLILAC::MAYOWed Jan 21 1987 16:315
    You answered my question about surveys.  I will try and pick up
    a copy of Cornell's book for comments in general.  Thanks.
    Tom
    

469.5correctionPRORAT::BERENSAlan BerensWed Jan 21 1987 19:5733
Correction: The title is Modern Ocean Cruising, published by Adlard 
Coles. 

Some results:

Rig	      Average	     Percent        Average LOD
	       Rating	     of Total	      (feet)

Sloop		8.58		31		33
Cutter		9.25		19		39
Ketch		8.10		44		42
Yawl		5.00		 2		42
Schooner	7.33		 5		67

Keel

long		8.96		68
medium		9.12		14
fin		8.93		14
bilge		6.50		 4

Length			   Average crew size

<35 ft		7.75		2
35-40 ft	9.27		2.5
40-45 ft	8.83		2.4
>45 ft		9.25		3.5

The book has lots of other useful information. 79% preferred CQR anchors 
(9.1 rating), the rest Danforths (8.8 rating) in sizes larger than 
recommended by the manufacturer. 


469.6RIPPLE::KOWALSKI_MAI&#039;ve got to fly to St. SomewhereFri Aug 24 1990 14:4054
    I was off kicking hulls yesterday morning and had the opportunity
    to look at a Vancouver 27 in some detail.  This boat can be purchased
    as a hull and deck or  factory finished.  I looked at a factory
    finished boat, built in '82.  The factory is in England, I believe.
    This particular boat had made her way to Seattle on her own bottom
    over the years.  In superb shape considering that usage.  The broker
    said the design had been commissioned by a couple in Vancouver,
    B.C.  They sailed hull #1 to the western Pacific and sold the rights
    to the design, according to broker.  The boat is featured in the
    "other boats" section of "Best Boats to Build or Buy".
    
    With few exceptions, the boat was sturdily constructed, surprisingly
    roomy, and had ample storage.  If anyone has an interest in a sister
    ship, I'll provide a copy of my survey checklist.
    
    Here are a few points which held my attention:
    
    1) The interior layout differed significantly from the one drawn
    in "Best Boats".  There is no hull liner so setting up a custom
    interior may be the rule.  This boat had a chain and line locker
    forward.  Next, a  shortish (6'1") V berth with volumninus sail locker
    beneath.  Then a full-width head with pull-out sink and W.C. starboard
    and hanging locker and shelving to port.  3/4" bulkhead on each
    side of the head.  Salon had wider (~25") settee berths port and
    starboard with storage beneatch.  Center drop-leaf table.  Chart
    table and seat to starboard of companionway with foul-weather gear
    aft of the seat back and open.  Galley to port with one sink, lng
    stove, lots and lots of storage.  The small (4 ft�) cooler is under
    the navigation seat!  Engine access beneath the ladder.  
    
    2) This boat seemed ill-suited to warm weather cruising.  Lots of
    heavy ports but all are fixed.  Opening hatch in head.  Three dorades,
    one in V-berth and two in salon.  The boat was "insulated" with
    light carpet-like material and had a drip-rail along the cabin trunk.
    ...on the other hand, there was no provision for heat or hot water
    in this particular boat...
    
    3) I was disappointed in the thru-hulls.  Not a sea-cock to be found.
    All were ball-values...with grounds.  Also disappointed at the
    chainplate attachments.  The main upper shroud went to a knee and
    that looked great.  But the running shroud  only went to the deck with
    a 5" backing plate.  And, worst of all IMHO, the lower forward shroud
    looked to be simply thru-bolted to the deck...I couldn't feel any
    backing plate or extra glass under the insulation.  I'm not sure
    how critical this is in a 27' cutter rig, but I was not impressed!
    
    4) The cockpit is very nice, small leg well, high combing (sp?),
    and a comforatable bridge deck.  The companionway opening is aat
    bridge deck height.  The winches seemed undersized on this boat
    for its intended use (Gibb 28RAs).

    So, there seemed to be lapses in equipment and a definite orientation
    to cooler climes.  On the whole, I liked what I saw.  If I owned
    her, there would be new winches, more opening ports / hatches