Conference unifix::sailing

    I put one on my 30 footer and have been satisfied. They are as
    tempermental as you would expect but not more so. Get a stainless
    tank with all of the fittings from Marine Speculators for $50 with
    all of the fittings. I dont think they burn enough fuel to warrant
    the connecting it to the main fuel tank...

    How much fuel do you burn, lets say overnite, when the temp dips
    into the 40's or hi 30's.   Based on the literature, I assumed I
    would be refilling a 2 gallon tank every couple days (nites) of use.
    
    The idea I had was not to connect directly to the main fuel tank,
    but to use fuel from that tank, thru the fuel pump, to transfer
    fuel (and maybe pressurize) a smaller 2 gallon tank for the heater.
    I would not leave an open connection as a matter of course between
    the 2, but would shut it off after transfer was complete with a
    stop valve at the pump and 2 gallon tank.
    
    By the way, how warm does the chimney get ?  Are there any special
    precautions to observe where I run it thru the deck ?  What about
    sealing it at the deck junction ?  I would use a teak donut (pad)
    both above and below at the deck/overhead. Can a sealer like poly-
    sulfide be used, or do they provide a flange (I didnt see one in
    the catalog) ?
    
    Thanks,
    Walt           
    

We too have a Force 10 cabin heater with the diesel/kerosene burner. So 
far we have used only kerosene, though, and we have had no problems with 
it yet. Lighting the burner is easy once you've learned to preheat it 
properly -- get it hot! Fuel consumption is low enough that connecting 
the heater's tank to the engine's diesel tank is more hassle than it is 
worth. The fuel tank has to be pressurized to about 15 psi -- the 
typical electric fuel pump pressure is about 5 psi -- so you'll still 
need an additional air pump (we use a $5 plastic bicycle tire pump). 

The smokestack rain cap from Force 10 isn't very good. We splurged and 
bought a Taylor cap -- much nicer. I made a mockup of the installation 
to determine how hot the smokestack and rain cap got at the deck. I
bolted the through deck flange directly to a piece of plywood -- no
insulating gasket. After an hour at full output, the plywood was not too
hot to touch. Nonetheless, on the boat we used two insulating gaskets. 

The quality of the Force 10 is good but not great. I modified ours a 
little to improve the joint between the heater and the smokestack. I'd 
rather have a Taylor, but the Force 10 fits our bulkhead much better and 
is considerably less expensive. 

The one problem with any cabin heater is air circulation. The air 
at the overhead is toasty warm while the air at the cabin sole is 
chilly. A small electric fan is, I think, the answer. We're going to use 
one of the recently introduced Nicro fans -- about 0.1 amp current 
consumption and the air circulation should be gently enough not to 
create unpleasant drafts.

You'll like having heat. On a rainy, 45 deg morning in Maine last 
September our heater at 3/4 of maximum output got the cabin warm enough 
for a bath within about an hour. Not enough heat for living aboard in 
winter, though.

Enjoy,

Alan

I wouldn't suggest leaving the heater running while you're sleeping. A 
warmer sleeping bag is a better idea. At maximum heat output fuel 
consumption is something like 1 gallon per 24 hours. Once the cabin is 
warm, the burner can be turned way down. I used polysulfide to seal the 
gaskets at the deck. 

    I have seen a Heat Pal advertised that can also double as a stove
    burner.  Does anyone have any experience with those?  They are
    not permanently mounted and cost about $65.

    I had one about 15 years ago. The main problem was the 'wet' heat
    from the alky burning in the open. Ed

The other problem is that the Origo is not externally vented.

By the way, we also have a Dutch-made, non-pressurized kerosene 
trawler lamp with a one inch wick. Turned up bright enough to read by, 
this lamp produces an amazing amount of heat with very little soot. We 
usually use it instead of the cabin heater on cool nights. It keeps the 
cabin quite warm. Turned down, its warm yellow glow turns your thoughts 
to romance ....

Alan

    Any ideas for mounting a wall heater in a boat that doesn't have
    any available bulkhead space?  I have been considering a Force 10
    for several years, but my cabin lay-out has no place to put it.
    
    Any suggestions gratefully accepted,
    Jeff
    

    I have a couple more questions, prompted by replies.
    
    From .1
    
    Where is Marine Speculators located ?
    
    
    From .3
    
    Can you tell me more about the Taylor rain cap ?  I cannot find
    any reference to a Taylor cap in any of my catalogs.  Who carries
    it ?  What does it look like ?  Approximate cost ?  Any adaptation
    problems to the Force 10 ?
    
    Thanks,
    Walt

The rain cap or Charley Noble for the Taylor kerosene heater can be
purchased from Jay Stuart Haft Company, PO Box 11210, Bradenton, Florida
33507. In 1984 the part number was T0079103E and the price $19.95.
Unfortunately, you also need the through deck fitting, part number
BSPEC, price $39.95. These may or may not be stock items. I ordered the
Charley Noble on 14 March 1984 and it was finally shipped sometime after
mid-September 1984 (it must have come across the ocean on a very slow
boat). The through deck fitting was in stock when I ordered it. The
Taylor kerosene heater and the Force 10 heater use the same 1 inch diameter
exhaust pipe. 

The problem with the stock Force 10 Charley Noble is twofold -- it is 
terribly prone to snagging sheets (our staysail sheets sweep over the 
Charley Noble) and it is very difficult to make water proof. The Taylor 
arrangement is better but still not perfect. There is a good drawing of 
the Taylor Charley Noble in the Haft catalog. Let me know if you'd like 
a xerox or more details.

Alan

    Marine Speculators... (re .1 & .9)
    
    Now located in Salem Ma. Rt 1A (near the Beverly Bridge). This is
    also known as Bridge St in Salem I believe.
    
    This building used to be occupied by Jayne's Marine Supply but
    the Marine 'spectacular' (as some refer to it) has been there
    for a couple years now. (They used to be located next to Desmonds
    Boat Yard in Beverly).
    
    bc
    

    Just a follow up note:
    
    I picked up the Force 10 earlier this year. Upon digging into the
    installation instructions I discovered two things that did not occur
    to me before hand.
    
    1) Even though the unit itself is compact (about 6" wide and deep
    by 15" high) it requires  the top 4' and about 2�' of bulkhead width
    unless one intends to install asbestos and stainless surfaces. Actually
    the instructions call for no less than 10" either side and front
    clearances, and (as I recall) at least 30" from its top to the
    overhead.  Sadly, our boat did not have any space this large which
    could be dedicated to the heater.  
    
    2) This should have occurred to me but didnt.  To light the heater
    (diesel or kerosene) one must fill the bowl under the burner with
    alcohol, ignite it and preheat the burner head. 
    
    Anyway, mainly due to the space problem, I returned the heater.
    The good news is the Trawler lamp I got for Christmas seems to provide
    enough heat to warm the cabin.

    Walt

    Walt,
    
    Thanks for inputs. They're the kind of things I'd forget bur won't
    now.
    
    re the Lamp... do you have any small fans installed to circulate
    the warm air? The image I have is of a small muffin fan we use in
    pc's or those appearing in vents now.
    
    Ed

    Fan:   Not yet, but I have thought about it (like one of those 
    oscillating fans, or as you mentioned, one that fits into a vent).
    
    I think the idea would be to move air from the overhead (warm) to
    the sole (cold) in a circular pattern.  
    
    I have found that when I hang the lamp somewhat aft (next to the
    galley) and crack the aft opening hatch over the dining table,
    the air coming in the starboard dorade (over the galley) is warmed
    and begins this kind of circular pattern which moves some warmer
    air down (and helps keep the air breathable).  This takes a breeze
    topside and some ability to regulate the air coming from the dorade.
    
    Walt