Conference unifix::sailing

    Mary,
    
    Thank you for ending my day on a humorous note!! What day are you
    going to Newport?
    
    Ed
    

    Marion to Bermuda    is offshore sailing.
    Marion to Nantucket  is coastal sailing (unless you go round Bermuda
                         to get there)
    
    Are you trying to classify boat types using this ?  Good luck. 
    
    Walt

I would agree with the half of the crew that thinks one season is not 
enough to decide what your next boat should be.

A true offshore boat is one built and equipped to handle any weather, 
any ocean. This translates to (most likely) an expensive and extensively 
equipped boat.

Without intending to offend anyone, I would not sail a Hunter or a
Catalina offshore, for example. I would sail a Valiant or Hinckley
around the world. Note the small price difference! 

Alan

Oh yes, you are unlikely to see more than one or two true offshore boats 
at Newport.

    I'll be serious this time. I had to laugh at .0. It didn't take me
    anywhere near a season to come to the conclusion that we needed a
    bigger boat. There we were (in our Pearson 26), smokin' right past the
    Goslings when this Pearson 30 just blows right by us! And they were
    drinking beers and having a good time in the cockpit, not even working.
    I knew at that moment that we really needed more waterline and sail.
    Justififications would follow (after all, I'm a systems guy and we can
    justify anything! :<) )                   
    
    My recommendation would be to get some time on a larger boat in the
    size range you're thinking. Try sailing with friends or charter for a
    weekend or a few days and sail a bigger boat to P_town. 
    
    I think you have to think about what you want in a lifestyle as well as
    what you want in a boat. You have a much different perspective on a
    larger boat. There seems to be a direct correlation between the size of
    your investmnet and the pressures you'll feel to use it. For me, a
    30-35 footer is a mobile spring/summer/fall vacation home. Are you
    going to want to spend most or all of your weekends on the boat? When
    are you going to cut the lawn? The problems are different from what
    you'll encounter on a 22'. The equipment's bigger and more complex. The
    forces are greater and the costs are higher across the board. 
    
    Go to Newport and look at the different types of layouts. figure out
    what you like. Try to imagine how that designer interior would be at a
    30 degree heel. Are there places to hold on to when you're moving
    around. Would you want to be thrown across the cabin? Look at how
    different manufacturers build their boats. Find the ones that you feel
    comfortable with (for me that means safe). Look inside cabinets to see
    how they finish off the "hidden areas". See how many layers of tape are
    used in bonding bulkheads to the hull. Look at how they put the wiring
    in. Don't just wiggle a lifeline stanchion, throw your whole weight
    against it to see if it holds you or creaks or does anything
    unpleasant. People will look at you a little funny but you'll know that
    stanchion will hold you if you need it. Go from a Sabre (you probably
    won't be able to see a Hinckley at Newport) to a Hunter and note the
    differences in the basic construction. Go to dealers that have a number
    of different models and brands and look at them. Wells and Sailboats
    Northeast in Marblehead maintain large inventories I think.
    
    Above all, have fun and DON'T TAKE YOUR CHECKBOOK TO NEWPORT!! 
                                                           
    Ed-who's-starting-to-look-at-32-to-35'ers

    Regarding the definition: 
    
    The most recent issue of practical sailor rates sailing categories
    from 0 to n which equates to something like daysailing (never sail
    at night, never sail more than 24 hours away..etc) to trans-oceanic
    sailing (ala BOC style).
    
    When they rate boats and hardware they try to say that a boat is
    ok for category 1 (say), but not for category (3) which might be
    more demanding of equipment, the hull and seaworthiness.  
    
    Look at this for something formal.
    
    Rick
        
    * Who wouldn't sail his Hunter offshore either, but thinks its fine
      for the East Greenwich to Edgartown sail every so often.... Decide
      what kind of sailing you will be doing and then decide whether
      you need a BOC boat or a floating patio.
    

re .6:

Rick, you got the categories backward. Category 0 is offshore sailing 
(any ocean, any weather, forget any outside assistance), Category 4 is 
sailing in protected waters (like the Mill pond).

I agree with Ed's comments about a large(r) boat being a lifestyle. When
you consider a 30 to 35 foot boat, you are considering an investment of
$25 000 to $100 000 (and don't laugh at the higher number). Unless you
have substantial discretionary income, an investment of this size might
well mean foregoing other pleasures -- dining out, Carribbean winter
charters, a new car, painting the house, a new stereo, etc. If you
really enjoy sailing (not just like sailing) then the financial strain
is bearable. Otherwise, I would think it would become an intolerable
burden in time. 

Isolated examples asides, it is my feeling that owning a boat is a net 
financial loss. With the new tax law (no interest deductions soon) this 
is even more true. Taking into account inflation, maintenance, mortgage, 
depreciation, and so on, you should from the beginning realize that you 
will never recover your investment in a boat. 

Owning a boat is only justifiable in terms of the pleasure you derive 
from owning and using the boat -- pleasure that must be greater than the 
other pleasures you must forego.

Enough. Consider very carefully what you intend to do with your boat. 
Larger is not necessarily better or safer or more seaworthy or more fun. 
With careful planning and thought, a 32 foot boat is amply roomy for two 
people to live aboard. If you like partying and friends aboard every 
weekend, 32 feet is too small. Larger boats are more work to sail (as 
for example when cost has dictated too small winches and non-ratcheting 
winch handles). Smaller boats have less stowage, but if you don't live 
aboard for more than a day or two at at time, so what? The tradeoffs are 
endless and can only be made when you thoroughly understand what sailing 
you intend to do now and in the future. I think that Julie and I were 
most fortunate in choosing our present boat. After seven years, it's 
still the boat we would buy today. However, we spent a year, off and on, 
discussing what we wanted and why. We spent six months discussing 
whether or not to buy the boat we have. 

Have fun.

Alan

PS I also agree with Ed's good words about looking at boats.

    I was intrigued by the Practical Sailor method of categorizing
    boats and gear.  For those of us who no longer subscribe, can
    someone enter some details of these categories and maybe an example
    or two ?
    
    Since very few of us spend our free time exclusively in the mill
    pond or out of sight of land, I think it makes sense to rate things
    in this manner.  
    
    It also opens up the possibility of 'outlyer' categories for that
    stuff which defies description, like Bucaneer.

    Walt

The categories are the same as the Offshore Racing Council categories -- 
but lots of you probably don't have the ORC requirements either.

Category 0 -- Trans-ocean races, where yachts must be completely 
self-sufficient for very extended periods of time, capable of 
withstanding heavy storms and prepared to meet serious emergencies 
without the expectation of outside assistance.

Examples: BOC, Whitbread, OSTAR

Category 1 -- Races of long distance and well offshore, where yachts 
must be completely self-sufficient for extended periods of time, capable 
of withstanding heavy storms and prepared to meet serious emergencies 
without the expectation of outside assistance.

Examples: Marion to Bermuda, Fastnet

Category 2 -- Races of extended duration along or not far removed from 
shorelines or in large unprotected bays or lakes, where a high degree of 
self-sufficiency is required but with the reasonable probability that 
outside assistance could be called upon for aid in the event of serious 
emergency.

Examples: Annapolis to Newport, Marblehead to Halifax, Corinthian 200

Category 3 -- Races across open water, most of which is relatively 
protected or close to shorelines, including races for small yachts.

Category 4 -- Short races, close to shore in relatively warm or 
protected waters.


My view is that anyone who sails in New England more than an hour from 
a safe harbor should be prepared to sail in gale conditions because 
sooner or later you are going to get caught in bad weather, no matter 
how careful you are. We had been sailing less than a year when we made 
an unplanned offshore passage from Monhegan Island, Maine, to 
Gloucester in a severe and unforecast September northeast gale, a 
passage for which we were woefully unprepared.

The death of the couple on the 26 footer last weekend should be cause 
for a little sober thought. It is all too easy to die while sailing, and 
it is all too often unnecessary.

Enjoy the boat shows or whatever. We're off to Maine for three weeks.

Alan

    Re .1 & .5
    
    Ed, we'll be in Newport on Friday, without checkbook.  I did my
    sailing partner a disservice if I implied that he wants to run right
    out and buy the first bigger boat he likes!  Although enamoured with
    the sport, he's too level headed to buy impulsively.  We look at
    Newport as a good chance to board some of the brand-name boats talked
    about in this notes file.
    
    As for your suggestion for sailing on a friend's bigger boat, that
    would be a great idea if we had any friends or family in sailing.
    We just decided to start sailing, much to family and friends' surprise. 
    We only know (?) you noters in sailing.  If one of you would like
    to take us for a sail on your 30-35' it would be great!!
    
    I've made arrangements to get the current issue of Practical Sailor
    so we can translate their rating scheme to our intended type of
    sailing.  This should help to 'focus' our looking at Newport.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mary 

    I don't think anyone has answered your question about a good 
    definition of Offshore Cruising.  The term conjurs different
    things in different minds.  I believ that any boat leaving the 
    sight of land is (in effect) going offshore.  Depending on the
    profile of the shoreline this could be from 5 to 25 miles and
    even if your're heading for Nantucket you can experience seas
    and weather the could compare with further journeys.
    
    Therefore, I would recommend that most boats that are leaving
    coastal waters be fully equiped for a potential ocean passage.
    In general, if the ORC rules are followed, most incidents will
    be prepared for.  
    
    Granted that deep ocean sailing does present different emotional
    and physical demands on the crew.  It will also increase the 
    strain on the boat and the equipment.  Anything that is planned
    for coastal cruising should be given a tenfold margin of strength
    for offshore.  
    
    There are so many books on the subject I won't attempt to recommend
    one.  I will say that whatever you read will never compare with
    living through the experience, but it does give you the choice of
    alternatives when faced with a situation.  Read all the books you
    can.  Believe me, it helps!  (See note 272 about my trip to Bermuda)
    
    Good luck,
    Jeff
    

    Mary-
    
    Jeff probably summed it up about the best.  Even the waters here
    in the Gulf of Maine can get very mean.  I somewhat suspect
    though, your family is not really looking to blue water sailing
    but rather some coastal sailing.  I've grown from the 10' 
    super snark 8 years ago to my present boat - 37' Endeaveur.
    This one I live on 8 to 9 months of the year.  It's large enough
    for one with some of the toys .. ie PRO 350,  and if you want
    to eliminate some of them, it's plenty big for two full time.
    
    In your first note, you stated this was your first season.  I don't
    know your past experiences or education (I'm all for the education
    as I'm an instructor for advanced piloting with the USPS), but if you
    plan to do any coastal sailing (I don't do any of that blue water stuff
    yet) I would suggest looking into buying a used boat.  I checked the
    used boat computer registery (have a friend who is a boat broker)
    and there are plenty of late model used boats available.  Right
    now the market prices for used boats is very depressed so you should
    be able to fine one in excellent shape for next to nothing.  Mine,
    I picked up for 60,000.  It was only 3 years old, excellent condition
    and fairly well outfitted. 
    
    You might also check into the USPS boating courses which are available
    for next to nothing.  I've found them to be much more extensive in the
    technical sense than most other courses offered for "Learn to Sail".
    I'll start a new topic describing the courses offered and give some
    info about USPS if there isn't one already.   Best of luck to you
    and your family and if you ever get up to Portsmouth, I'll be glad to
    take you out for a day sail.
    
    Looking towards the sun,
    
    Lee

    
    re .13	Huh ?