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Conference unifix::sailing

Title:SAILING
Notice:Please read Note 2.* before participating in this conference
Moderator:UNIFIX::BERENS
Created:Wed Jul 01 1992
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2299
Total number of notes:20724

274.0. "New vs Traditional" by SUMMIT::THOMAS (Ed Thomas) Fri Mar 28 1986 09:43

    This is sort of a flame and sort of a cry in the wilderness.
    
    The discussion about Marelon vs bronze thru hull fittings has raised
    some questions in my mind about some of the assumptions I have about
    new "high tech" materials. 
    
    My problem is that most of my decisions are based on advertising and
    articles in the non-scientific press that, in general, praise the
    virtues of new materials. How do I, as a person with no formal
    scientific education beyond high school chemistry and physics (handled
    my science distributive requirement by taking Stars 1 and Rocks 1),
    learn enough about new and traditional materials to make an intelligent
    decision about what kinds of things to use? I'm tempted to ask, Is
    there a book about the latest materials that the layman can read? I
    consider myself fortunate to have exposure to the thoughts of engineers
    and scientists with scientific training. But what about folks like me
    who don't work for DEC? You engineers and scientists out there do know
    what you're talking about, don't you? :<) 
    
    Practical Sailor is helpful. Are there any other publications that
    would be considered as reasonably objective? Which raises another
    question, how do you know what publications to trust? It all seems
    to come down to word of mouth and talking with as many other people
    as you can to learn about their experiences.
    
    Flame off!!
    
    Ed
    

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274.1<Evaluation Bronze vs MARELON>OBLIO::MCWILLIAMSFri Mar 28 1986 13:06116
     Thomas brought up a good point on evaluation of materials. From some 
     of my reference books on materials I put together a comparison of the
     various material types. The summary is that glass reinforced plastics
     are between 1/4th to 1/7th less strong than bronze in terms of their
     tensile strength but the failure mode of seacocks should not be solely
     because of tensile failure. Stress corrosion, stress cracking, and
     impact strength are probably the more relevant. 

     Suffice it to say that bronze is probably the strongest material, but
     the corrosion resistance and the relative flexibility of the plastics
     would be superior in some circumstances.

     The following 100 lines cover some of the properties of the various
     materials;

     The following is a synopsis of the mechanical properties of various
     grades of bronze. I believe that most marine hardware used to be made 
     from NAVY M BRONZE (Unified Numbering System for Metals and Alloys 
     type C92200). However, my book lists the aluminum bronzes as having 
     the best resistance to salt water corrosion so take the last column
     as the most probable material composition.

                         +-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
                         | Manganese |   Navy M  |Leaded Ni-Sn| Aluminum  |
                         |   Bronze  |   Bronze  |   Bronze   |  Bronze   |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     UNS                 |   C67500  |   C92200  |  C92900    |   C95400  |
     Designation         |           |           |            |           | 
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Density             |   0.302   |    N/A    |   N/A      |    N/A    |
     (lb/in^3)           |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Thermal Coeff       |    118    |    100    |    95      |     90    |
     of Expansion        |           |           |            |           |
     (10E-7 in/in Fdeg)  |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Thermal Cond        |     61    |    40.2   |   33.6     |    33.9   |
     BTU-Ft/Hr-Ft^2-Fdeg |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Modulus of          |     15    |    15     |    14      |    15.5   |
     Elast (10E6 psi)    |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Yield Strength      |  30-60    |    48     |    20      |   35-54   |
     (10E3 psi)          |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Tensile Strength    |  65-84    |    40     |    47      |  85-105   |
     (10E3 psi)          |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Shear Strength      |  42-48    |    180    |    N/A     |  47-50    |
     (10E3 psi)          |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+


     Plain nylons are a thermoplastic resin from the Polyamide family. They
     exhibit a crystalline structure and are available in a variety of 
     formulations. Nylon 6/6 is the most widely used, with Nylon 6 being 
     the second most used. Nylon 11 and 12 are used where better 
     dimensional stability and lower water absorption is needed. All nylons
     are sensitive to UV degradation. Some of the relevant mechanical
     properties are listed below.

                         +-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
                         | Nylon 6/6 | Nylon 6   | Nylon 6/12 | Nylon 11  |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Density             |  0.0413   |  0.0408   |   0.0386   |  0.0376   |
     (lb/in^3)           |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Thermal Coeff       |    4.0    |   4.5     |     5.0    |    5.1    |
     of Expansion        |           |           |            |           |
     (10E-7 in/in Fdeg)  |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Thermal Cond        |    1.7    |   1.7     |     1.5    |    N/A    |
     BTU-Ft/Hr-Ft^2-Fdeg |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Flexural Modulus    |    0.40   |   0.45    |    0.50    |   0.51    |
     (10E6 psi)          |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Tensile Strength    |    12.0   |   11.8    |    8.8     |    8.5    |
     (10E3 psi)          |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Impact Strength     |     1.0   |    1.0    |    1.0     |    3.3    |
     (Ft-lb/in of notch) |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Hardness            |     121   |    119    |    114     |    N/A    |
     Rockwell R          |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+

     Finally many types of nylon are being reinforced with glass fibers. 
     The reason for this is general all mechanical properties will be 
     improved by a factor of two or more wit a glass load of 30-40%.
     My guess is that "MARELON" is probably either a glass reinforced Nylon 
     6/12 because of its lower water absorption, or a Zytel clone because
     of its higher impact resistance. The mechanical properties are listed 
     below;

                         +-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
                         | Nylon 6/6 | Nylon 6   | Nylon 6/6  | Nylon 6/12|
                         |   alloy   |  alloy    | copolymer  |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Company             | RF-1006 HI| PF-1006 HI|  VF-1006 HI|           |
     Designation         |  (LNP)    |  (LNP)    |DuPont Zytel|           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Thermal Coeff       |    180    |   170     |     190    |    150    |
     of Expansion        |           |           |            |           |
     (10E-7 in/in Fdeg)  |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Flexural Modulus    |    1.10   |   1.00    |    0.90    |   1.20    |
     (10E6 psi)          |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Tensile Strength    |    27.0   |   22.0    |    11.6    |   22.0    |
     (10E3 psi)          |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+
     Impact Strength     |     3.0   |    3.2    |     4.5    |    2.4    |
     (Ft-lb/in of notch) |           |           |            |           |
     --------------------+-----------+-----------+------------+-----------+

274.2Nylon swells like wood-SHIVER::JPETERSJohn Peters, DTN 266-4391Fri Nov 14 1986 10:016
    Another thing you want to keep in mind about nylon is that it swells
    as it absorbs moisture, like wood, which causes problems when it
    is used in bushing or bearing applications, and that it gets quite
    brittle when cold.  
    			John