Conference unifix::sailing

That was a most unpleasant experience. I have never sailed a Hobie. They
look like a lot of fun, but they also look like they could become very
scary very quickly in conditions that would be quite enjoyable in a
larger boat. Julie and I first tried sailing without any real knowledge
of what we were doing in a 12 or 14 foot dinghy. After scaring ourselves
a bit on the second sail, we decided that learning to sail on a larger
boat might be a good idea. It was. We learned to sail on a Pearson 30 --
larger, more stable, and equipped with an instructor who knew what he
was doing. Perhaps your wife might be willing to take lessons on a less
thrilling boat than a Hobie. Conditions usually seem worse to an
inexperienced sailor that they really are. To suggest that perhaps the
winds weren't 50 knots and the seas weren't 8 feet doesn't diminish the
bad experience that you had. To say that the winds were 50 knots and the
seas 8 feet on what was supposed to be a nice sailing day is enough to
scare anyone for quite a while. Confidence is built a little at a time.
Julie and I remember sitting at our mooring for three beautiful sailing
days recovering our confidence after a scary experience with a large
genoa, some wind, and a 26 foot boat we had owned for a month. Today we
look forward to going sailing in weather that used to terrify us. A
willingness to accept a certain amount of fear is, I think, necessary if
one is to become a good sailor. Fear is never pleasant, and anticipation
is worse than reality. Good luck.

Alan

	It's an  interesting  problem  you bring up.  Usually the 
bigger  the  boat  is  the  more  comfortable  the  inexperienced 
passenger will feel, and the more nervous the  skipper will be if 
he isn't used to the size.

	I'm afraid you have quite  a  job  ahead  of  you.   Your 
experience is similar to mine when  I  asked  my  then girlfriend 
for a  ride  on  my  motorbike.   She  has hated motorbikes since 
then.  Substitute  Hobie  Cat  for  motorbike  and  we  have your 
problem.

	Next  time rent the biggest charter boat you  can  afford 
and  dare  sail in.  Pick a day with  some  wind  and  she'll  be 
impressesed  with  how comfortable  and  reassuring  it  will  be 
compared with her last experience.   I  doubt  you'll get her out 
on the hobie for a long  time,  but  a least she'll be willing to 
go on the water again.

Anker

My response is similar to the first two responses: beg, borrow, or steal a
larger monohull and work (down) from there.  Speaking from experience, a
catamaran is not a particularly good boat to learn sailing from.  I have
both a racing catamaran (NACRA 17) and a small cruiser (CAL 25-II) and an
enthusiastic wife.  No matter how good/bad my explanations were, my wife
never really got the hang of catamaran sailing .... and small wonder: steaking
along at 20 knots, flying the trapeze, tacking the boat in a split second,
looking for/avoiding pitchpoles .... it all adds up to a wet and wild
experience.  And this was in Florida where the waters are warm.  We both
love cat sailing (we also like downhill skiing for much of the same reasons)
but my wife was no closer to learning sailing fundamentals from her 
experiences.

When we moved to Boston, we opted for a small cruiser for a variety of 
reasons - one of which was the temperature of the air/water.  I was also
tiring of trailering/rigging the boat.  Optimistically, I hoped my wife
could pick up the rudiments of crewing over the summer and eventually take
over skippering the boat.  And she did.  The CAL is a much more forgiving
boat lumbering along at 4-6 knots than a streaking catamaran is.  I've
really been impressed how quickly she picked up both the basics and a
rough understanding of sailing.

I'm not trying to talk you out of your catamaran - but maybe you ought to
consider a poky monohull.  I have a friend (also a skiing fanatic) who is
in the same situation as you described.  His fiance "puts" up with his
catamaran sailing because she knows he loves the boat.  She isn't frightened
of the boat, but he keeps taking her out in bad weather.  To his chagrin,
she enjoys our larger boat for the creature comforts and the feeling of
safety.  Its kind of strange watching this drama unfold: my friend trying
to make his fiance love cat sailing/the fiance tolerating the catamaran but
prefering more sedate cruising (she hasn't been out with us in the ocean
on a crazy day yet!).  So your situation isn't really unique.  It happened
to my parents as well.  My advice - go slow!!

I have just had an experience similar to but not quite as bad as the one
you describe.  A couple weeks back, some friends and I went sailing on
my Hobie 16.  The day was quite windy, but not bad.  There were less than
one foot swells on the lake (Champlain).  Three of us took off under full
sail; my room-mate who sails, but never on a cat, myself- only the third
time out, and a lady friend- who had hardly if ever sailed.  At first it
was very fast and exciting, but tollerable.  After a short time, the wind
began to come up.  We were stuck out in the middle of the lake with way
too much sail out, and we weren't able to control it very well.  Every tack 
we made by back-winding the sails and backing the boat around.  Trying to
make it back upwind, the wave now over three feet and the sky darkening,
we capsized.  We spent quite a bit of time in the water while I explained
to my roommate how to help me right the cat.  I had righted it before in
practice close to shore, but never out that far and in rough water.  Our
first attempts failed as the hulls went pitchpole due to our other friend 
holding on to the rudders.  Another attempt with the mast directly into
the wind simply flopped the cat over in the other direction.  Finally a 
boat from an island came out to help.  They picked up Julie, our cold 
passenger, and backed off while we succeeded in righting the cat.  Problem
is, I knew rule number one is to GET ON once the cat is upright.  My roommate
waited in the water and watched me get on.  Sure enough, the sails caught
wind and my roomie was getting dragged along holding onto a hull, his shorts
around his feet.  Then I got the ride of my life.  All the mainsheet was in
the blocks, so I didn't have anyway to get at a free end.  the cat was 
running with the wind, and my luck.... the rudder crossbar was sticking 
straight up in the air, out of reach.  What entailed was a wild ride 
over the water with the cat almost blowing over, my roomie let go, and I
headed out of control into the side of an island half a mile away.

Luckily the boat that came out picked up my roomie, I suffered only a scratch,
and the cat only minor dammage to the gelcoat on one hull.  Our friend, who
since thinks twice before going sailing with us, didn't take it as bad as
in your case.  We have since convinced her that it was a fluke, and with
newfound experience, it could be avoided in the future.  We've also taken 
her on very mild sails on, of all things, a smaller boat.  I have to admit too,
that fear seems to be an intergral part of sailing at one time or another.
On a Hobie Cat, it's just a matter of time.  My sympathy to your situation.
I suspect the advice given in the previous notes will help build up the confidence 
in what can be a very enjoyable sport.  Good luck... you're not alone.

Eric

I'm afraid I can't add anything to the Hobie comments, I'm a monohuller.

But I can say something about the "work down" idea. There's only one problem
that I see. Once, you've spent your relaxing week/weekend cruising on the  
BIGBOAT, you're back at home in the "family yacht" with the same ability, 
the same freeboard, and the same fear (given the right XXX wrong conditions).
My suggestion is know YOUR boat.

We own (and have owned) a 27' cruiser, a 24' cruiser/daysailer, a 14' "very-
wet" boat and various miscellaneous boats. And under a variety of conditions
we've both been scared sXXtless! But, I like to think we learn something each
time. I.E. I would not sail the 27'er offshore (100+ miles) or the 24'er on
an overnighter (ocean) that I "had to" sail back from on a given day or the
14'er on the ocean at all. I guess I'm basically a wimp, but I wouldn't sail
my first boat (say a 16' multihull) much further than the mouth of the harbor
(at least for a year or so).

I hope I said that without offending?

Gary...

We had a daysailor for 2 years before moving up to a 33' crusing boat.  When we
sailed it from Hingham to Greenwich Bay in April we had a delivery captain
along.  The delivery captain brought a friend and the four of us started
out.   One had crewed in the Americas cup and the other was an experienced
racer, so what they thought was "just like sailing", was sheer terror for
my wife.  

In Buzzards Bay the weather got *nasty* and we ended up sailing most
of the time "on her ear", with my wife clinging to the cleat above her while
myself and Billy were scrambling around trying to handle the sails. Since
then she has been somewhat afraid of really heeling the boat, and we've only
recently gotten to a point where we are probably sailing the boat "the way
it can be".  

Rather than "get right back up in the saddle again", (or in your case trapeze),
you might just want to pick a calm day, not go out to far, and MAKE SURE
you won't be stuck out like that again.  Reduce the risk, and let her know
that it can't happen again.  We stayed away from the tougher afternoon breezes
for a while until she felt comfortable handling normal conditions.  Then worked
our way into stronger stuff. 
                            
Rick

             

There is a new product on the market from Sail Safe International. Its a 
spring loaded device that attaches to the boom and controls the ammount of 
heel. If the wind exceeds (gusts) the setting you made the sail is let out. 
When the wind backs off it retracks the sail. They were at both Boston Boat 
Shows with a video showing the device in action. The Middlesex News 
(Framingham, MA.) just did an article on it (7-July-1985 Business section).

If you need more information there address is:
    	Sail Safe International 
    	11 Great Road
    	Sudbury, MA. 01776
    	(617) 443-7684

I could go into detail on how good this device is but I have an interest in 
the Company and the notes file is not the place to push one's product.

I am a woman who has been sailing since the age of 8 (that makes 29 years 
worth!).  I learned on a sailfish and at first was scared to death that it
would tip over.  Well, it did, and I righted it and sailed off.  After that
Dad had trouble with us keeping the boat upright - it was much more fun to
tip it over! 

I grew up on a lake and every Sunday we'd end up trying to help some poor
Hobie racer right his boat.  Since those days I have had the opportunity
to sail a hobie and though I thoroughly enjoyed it, I found it difficult
to tack the boat and my experience with righting one would keep me from
owning one.

When I moved to Mass.  I began ocean sailing.  I was afraid it was different
from lake sailing so I took the Power Squadron course to learn navigation
and a sailing class in Marblehead run by the Coastal Sailing School.  These
courses together with the Advanced sailing class at the Boston Sailing School
gave me the confidence I needed to skipper a friends Hughes 38 and subsequently
purchase my own Freedom 32.  

A girlfriend learned to sail on Solings (27' keel boat) at the Boston Sailing
Center.  A few years later she decided to try the Charles River Yacht club
but could never get comfortable sailing in those tiny boats, they were too
tippy.  She is, however, and avid sailor and racer aboard a CC41 and crews
with me frequently.

I can honestly that I still get afraid when sailing on the ocean.  Sailing
is not a sport to be taken lightly, it can be dangerous.  I equate learning
to sail to learning to ski.  Only fools go all the way to the top of a 
mountain and try to ski down.  

I don't want to offend you, but your wife may have lost confidence in your
ability as a sailor.  It might be a good idea for her to take a series of
beginner lessons in a fairly stable boat with a competant instructor.  It
might also work for the two of you to take lessons together - that's 
difficult to say.  I agree with the other suggestions to go sailing with
someone on a larger boat on a calm day and take your wife along.  My
sister was afraid to sail with me on the ocean even though she has sailed
as long as I have.  Once on my boat, however, we couldn't keep her still;
she was all over the boat having a great time.

Since I own a boat and am a champion of women in sailing I will offer to
your wife (and yourself if she wishes) a sailing day on Narragansett Bay.
I will bring a competant crew and maybe there will be a chance to win her
over!  Let me know.

Pam Rickard
DTN - 229-6592

I wholeheartedly agree with all of the replies so far.  Starting slow is
the best way.

About 4 years ago, I took a 7 day cruising course in Florida.  There was
a young couple from New Jersey on board, and Bernadette's idea of a cruise
was being on the QE II.  On the first day, we had 10 to 15 knot winds in 
Charlotte Harbor.  Not much for an O'Day 34.  For Bernadette, it was white
knuckle city!  All she could do was hang on and cry "OH! OH!."  By the seventh
day, she was at the helm, we were moving along at 8.4 knots, heeled over
at about 25 - 30 degrees and she was yelling "MORE WIND, MORE WIND!!!!."

Give your wife a chance and some time.

	Wayne 

Well, I grew up on the north shore of Long Island and became very fond
of being in the water.  When I finally bought by Hobie 16, I wasn't afraid
to take it anywhere, in almost any weather (I also have a lot of
experience swimming fresh and salt water).  I find that most of the people
who are afraid to sail are actually afraid of drowning.  Now, maybe that
sounds a little simple, but if you realize that if the people had a better
relation with the water itself they wouldn't fear the boat as much.
If a person is a good swimmer and likes the water, it doesn't matter how
bouncy the ride can get.  Granted, there are many situations where knowing
how to swim isn't going to help.  It's just that I feel in order to get
over an aversion to sailing, one must first lose their fear of deep waters
(in turn, they tend not to panic as often).
Ok, so maybe I'm off the wall, maybe you should never have to know how to
swim well if you're supposed to stay in the boat...  but that's why I bought
the Hobie.

Flames?
...Dan

Swimming is all well and nice when the water is warm. North of Cape Cod, if
you aren't wearing a wet suit, you can die of hypothermia in a very, very
short time and be incapacitated in maybe half an hour. If you can't keep
the boat upright, you shouldn't risk sailing it, at least not in New
England waters.

Alan

Re .10:  I'm afraid I also disagree with the notion that fear of the water
is a root cause of fear of sailing.  For me the issue seems to be that of
control of the boat.  The suggestions made in earlier replies to this note
mostly point to increasing confidence levels in the boat, skipper and crew as
the best way to lessen someone's fear of sailing (bigger boat, more stable
boat, lessons for the gun-shy, going out on calm days, etc).  All of these
things will give the person who has been frightened the sense that the boat is
now under control.

I sail in Casco Bay, Maine and my family and I have been exhilarated sailing
over mountainous swells in brisk winds.  The boat just felt "good".  On the
other hand, I've felt the knot begin to build in my stomache in less overall
wind and with smaller waves because some unknown conditions caused the boat
to not behave well.  It was starting to feel out of control.  It was starting
to get scary.

The solution to the problem of a spouse/friend who has been frightened once
and who now won't go again is not swimming lessons.  It is giving that person
the feeling that the boat is in control. My wife's fears diminished in
direct proportion as her own sailing abilities increased.  If it's not too late,
either formal lessons through a school, or knowledge and ability gained through
good experiences would be the best route to overcoming a very rational and
understandable fear of sailing.
       -Travis

One rebuttal to the "learn to swim" idea...

They say that "ancient mariners" (I guess that's pre-fiberglass hull 
sailors) would purposely NOT learn to swim so that if they went down
off shore they would drown more quickly and suffer less.

You know... I think I like that!

Gary...

	RE: .0

	I'll share my experience, as my reaction was somewhat similar
	to your wifes.  My "bad experience" occured three summers
	ago when we first got this catamaran; it's our second cat, 
	our first was a very freindly, stable (in my eyes) Aquacat.

	I have finally managed to go out for and _enjoy_ a sail on our 
	Matrix 5.5 (18') under _very_heavy_winds_.

	The rest is after a formfeed as I got a bit long winded and
	am too short on time to edit it down to size...sorry.


	My fear of this boat developed after the following experince:

	Very soon after we bought this cat Don was out alone on a
	medium to brisk day with 90 degree cross winds.  He got hit
	by a particularly bad gust, went over and was thrown into
	the boom.  The boat then turtled.  By the time a power boat
	came in to shore for me, explained the situation, I got into 
	the wet suit (mid-May on New Found Lake), and arrived at the 
	capsized cat there had already been three unsucessful attempts 
	to right it.  In the mean time Don was grey from pain/cold/shock.  
	He was sent into shore while I continued the righting operation.  

	To make a long story short better than an hour later (using 
	my body as a sea anchor to keep the boat from swiveling) we 
	succeeded at getting it upright.  By that time I was so cold I 
	couldn't even begin to climb on the cat.  Fortunately, an 
	experienced sailer (who was dry, if not warm) was on hand to 
	sail the cat in and beach her.  Since he wasn't a cat sailor, 
	and weighed too little for me to feel secure that he could 
	bring the pontoon down if it lifted in the gusts, we had the 
	boat towed back to the marina.  (My comment being "I can't 
	possibly go through this twice in one day!").  At that point
	I felt fairly good about the situation and what I'd managed 
	to do.

	Alls well that ends well you think?  Nope.  For a person who
	has crewed most of her life and loves sailing I developed a
	great dislike of the boat (not other boats mind, just ours).  

	Fortunately,  I am not adverse to staying back when others sail, 
	nor would I ask Don not to sail just because I am paranoid.  
	Don's attitude/stance was please join me whenever you are 
	comfortable with the conditions, don't worry about asking to 
	go ashore if your become uncomfortable, and we'll try to sell 
	this cat and drop down to a 16' with a friendlier righting
	system (didn't find a buyer...and like I said I just sailed
	on it comfortably for the first time in heavy winds).

	I strongly endorse those who recommended being very careful
	about stability of boat and situations you are in as your wife 
	is reaquainted with the joys of sailing.  If she is experiencing 
	the kind of irrational fear I have been experiencing it will 
	probably take quite a while rebuild her trust of "human control 
	over the monster".

	Good luck,  I know it's not easy.

	Audrey

	PS:  Someone once told me that sailing is often "long periods
	     of terror punctuated by short bursts of heaven"!

I believe the problem is one of stability and experience. Prior to the
"day of infamy", my wife had only been on a small pond 2 or three times,
and never with a wind over 10 knts.

as for the swimmer idea, she use to race for 4 years and even lately swam
out a half mile at rockport while i was racing. She just does not trust
that cat!  she hates it to the point where she beleives i either love
her or i go use the boat. She has tried to get back on it, but it was a
bad moment as there were 0-2 knt winds (you know, you don't go anywhere and
the lake is motionless) where she was wound up like a spring not matter how
much we tried to reassure her.

There is hope though. She wants to learn to sailboard (ugh ! no pontoons,
no jib), so I am looking for a really good sailboard instructor either on
a lake or the ocean to show her how to do this. Does anyone know any good
places that both rent and instruct?

the experience factor is everything as i am starting a believe. Last week 
my brother and i sailed out of duxbury into plymouth and then out to sea.
there was hardly and wind so i had him trapping out only on beam reaches.
He is 6'4 and 200 lbs and has been crewwing for me at all the races this 
season even in some violent weather. Anyways, i let him captain while i
trapped for the first time, he almost came unruled trying to keep the boat
on course, looking for other boats and telling me where the move my weight.

by the time we were calling it a day, he was starting to have a lot of fun
with the tiller, but he didn't like the heavy seas of the open ocean that
with the tiller, but he didn't like the heavy seas of the open ocean that
are his "fun" during a race.


I want to thank all the advice and offers of help. Just print these gems 
out and showing her that she is not the only one who has had that problem
was a big win.

john

    Enjoy your sailing - after all it's what YOU want to do, not Her.....
    
    I too an not an avid sailor and any opportunity to stay on shore
    I opt for.

    As a long time sailor, I sympathize with the woman in question.
    I wouldn't go out with you in that boat either.  We all experience
    situations that at the least make us uneasy at the time, but then
    serve as "confidence builders" and add to our experience.  The key
    is that you have to survive the uneasy feeling relatively unscathed
    in order to look back on it in a positive way.  I'm a partner in
    a 42 foot custom racer and still get wild-eyed when we start surfing
    in a heavy run.  But I know I'm not going to die no matter what
    happens.  I've been involved in two dismastings and while no fun,
    resulted in no injuries.
    
    The major difference is that in previous notes (which I just got
    around to reading) in this subject people were in serious, life
    threatening situations with skippers they trusted to control the
    situation.  When, for a variety of reasons, things got out of control
    the confidence was lost, probably forever.
    
    What people in their replies imply but don't say is that a very
    high proportion of Hobie "sailors" don't know enough about what
    they are doing to provide any provision for unfavorable weather
    and crew even less experienced than they are.  A lot of this is
    the result of the incredible marketing job Hobie has done.  The
    message is that anyone can sail (true), with little or no special
    training (also true in 80 degree weather, 5-10 knot breezes).  I
    love cat sailing but find it requires more, not less ability than
    standard mono (slow) sailing.  Add to that the aforementioned
    difficulty in righting a cat in even the best of conditions and
    you have the recipe for cold, wet, unhappy people.
    
    Once again, if the fellow can't get the woman back on the Hobie,
    he ought to realize just how smart she is.  Time to get off the
    soap box and back to work.
    
    Dave
    

    We too have a boat in Casco Bay....Where do you sail out of??
    

    Grab them there ice skates folks, H_ll has just froze over......
    
    
      Yes, I got my wife to go back out on the boat, AND SHE LIKED IT!!!!!!!!
                                                                  
    It took a couple of years for her to forget the nightmare. Once
    she said she would give it a try, I thought about it long and hard
    before acting.
    
      first, I said I would only take her out on a lake or pond. I didn't
    want to scare here with the vast expanses of the ocean.
    
      second, I picked a really hot day (90s) when she didn't need the
    wetsuit. in this manner, she would be more comfortable.
    
      third, I picked a day with 3-8 knot breezes. No reason to show
    her the superior accelleration of a catamaran the first day out,
    plus I could stop on a dime and leave 9 cents change just by
    pointing the bows into the wind.
    
       fourth, and most importantly, I got My attitude right instead
    of hers. I calmed down to the point where I looked like I was on
    setitives (not the ussual me). Even though It took a long time to
    assemble the boat, I did it in a slow quiet manner. Finally, I made
    sure my attitude changed from "TRUST ME, I know what I am doing"
    to What would you like do on the nice boat?
    
       She says she is ready for the ocean, but I will wait and build
    her confidence up with more light lake sailing first. Hopefully
    I can get her to take the tiller soon when things are quiet. 
    
       Thanks for all the help folks
    
        john
    
    p.s. My better half says she would even consider racing If I got
    a set of pink sails. A small price to pay for sailing together!!!
                                                               
    
    

Congratulations, John!  Having watched you tear up and down Sandy Bay a 
few times like a madman (from "Risky Business" and from shore), I admire
your self-awareness and willingness to adjust your own attitude rather
than hers. 

A well-earned victory!

J.