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Conference unifix::sailing

Title:SAILING
Notice:Please read Note 2.* before participating in this conference
Moderator:UNIFIX::BERENS
Created:Wed Jul 01 1992
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2299
Total number of notes:20724

70.0. "equipment" by LATOUR::RDF () Mon Dec 31 1984 08:15

I'm looking to stock my boat with the following items for the coming season,
and  would  welcome  any  suggestions  or  recommendations  on  products.

	.  First Aid Kits   . Foul weather clothing       
	.  Flashlights	    . Life raft(s)		  
	.  Battery lights   . Life-lines and harnesses

Hints of prices involved would be a help.

Rick

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70.1MOTHER::BERENSMon Dec 31 1984 12:4184
While I have many specific suggestions, I beg your indulgence while I 
pontificate a while.

First axiom: The equipment you would like to purchase for your boat 
will always exceed your financial resources. The result of this is that 
you will have to prioritize your list of purchases. 

How to establish priorities? I would answer by suggesting that you begin 
by carefully describing the kind of sailing that you are planning to do. 
Next examine your personal feelings regarding how much risk you feel 
comfortable with. Then determine which equipment is the most important. 
(See note 64.2 for my views on safety. See especially the ORC safety 
equipment list.)

The equipment needed for coastal daysailing is less than that needed for 
coastal passage making. The equipment needed for coastal passage making 
is less than that needed for offshore passages, and so on.

Given that you have just bought your first large boat, I would suspect 
that you will in the near future be doing mostly daysailing and short 
daylight coastal passages in good weather. For this I would suggest

	a VHF radio with a masthead antenna
	a dinghy
	two anchors and two rodes
	foul weather gear
	MOB pole, strobe, and horseshoe
	safety harnesses
	charts

If you are planning a coastal offshore passage (eg, Marblehead to 
Camden) you might also add 

	a loran
	an EPIRB
	a masthead tricolor light
	all applicable NOAA charts

Your question about a liferaft is interesting. Why do you feel you need 
one? Why do I feel I need one? Admittedly good statistical data is lacking, 
but I have the impression that far more boats are lost in groundings 
than are lost offshore. If you have a collision or other calamity and 
sink offshore then you may need a liferaft. If you go down in good 
weather and have a good rowing dinghy, you should be able to row quite a 
long ways to shore (25 miles or more I would think). If you go down in a 
hurricane, survival, even with a liferaft, is problematical. So the 
situations in which a liferaft is useful are perhaps relatively 
unlikely. Should you decide to get a liferaft, do you get a heavily 
ballasted one (ie, Givens) that is likely to survive anything but will 
only drift, or do you get a lightly ballasted one (ie, Avon) that is 
possibly somewhat less seaworthy but which could be towed by a rowing or 
sailing dinghy toward safety? How wealthy are you? A Givens (around 
$5000) is at least twice as expensive as an Avon. (If you get an Avon, 
get a Mark III with a double floor. Buy it from Thomas Foulkes in 
London, have it sent air freight to Boston, and pay the minimal duty.
My Avon cost under $1700 freight and duty paid. US discount price was 
around $2500. I received my Avon 10 days after it was manufactured and 
less than a month after I ordered it. Foulkes accepts checks in US 
dollars.) We didn't buy a liferaft until we went to Nova Scotia, and we 
might not have bought it then except it is on our list of equipment for 
our planned extended cruise. (Liferafts can be rented but it is 
expensive to do so.)

To answer your question finally:

Foul weather gear: Line 7 Racing is warm, dry, durable, heavy, a bit stiff, 
and expensive. I never sail without it, and I would buy it again.

Safety harnesses: Many good ones today -- just be sure they meet the ORC 
strength requirements.

VHF radio: Standard (see VHF note).

Loran: Some are easy to use, some are not. Get one that is easy to use.

Anchors: CQR plow (no other plow is anywhere near as good or strong) 
and Danforth Hi-Tensile. 

Second axiom. Buy quality (usually expensive). Completely equipping a 
boat for offshore sailing is maybe $20 000 minimum.

Have fun!


70.2HOLST::RODENHISERWed Jan 02 1985 16:1328
I'd like to reinforce Alan's suggestion to purchase Avon items directly
from England. The same goes for any other items manufactured there.

This includes: Lewmar winches, Henri Lloyd or Musto-Hyde foul weather
               gear, CQR anchors, Autohelm autopilots, etc.

Practical Sailor just covered this subject in a recent issue. If anyone
would like a copy I'd be happy to make one for them.

There are three or four other mail order houses in addition to Thomas
Foulkes (Top Gear is one) and it is worth your while to comparison shop.
Besides differing prices each have unique shipping charges and it is worth
your while to calculate the bottom line price from several sources.

Last year I purchased two sets of Henri Lloyd foul weather gear from Top Gear
and paid less (including shipping and duty) than one set would have cost
from a US discount catalog.

The surprising items are CQR anchors. You would think that shipping charges
eat up the savings, but it's not so. Considerable money can be saved here.

Most of these places will also take phone orders (Mastercard, Visa, Am Express)
and will ship by air if you need something in a hurry, although you better
not use that method for something like the anchor.


John

70.3HOLST::RODENHISERWed Jan 02 1985 16:3619
One additional comment about purchasing Henri Lloyd foul weather gear
from England. The sizing is NOT the same as it is for the US distributed
versions of the same items. The English sizes are bigger. I had originally
purchased one set of medium for my son and one set size large for me
(I'm 5'11", 180lbs). They were way too big. I sold the large, kept the medium
for myself and ordered another small set for my son. 

So pay attention to the size charts in the English catalogs. They are 
different that what you are used to.


Funny thing is: the US distributor of Henri Lloyd told me this at the Newport
show a couple of years ago and I didn't believe him. He was not pleased when
I tried on his demo gear and then told him that I was going to purchase
overseas. I figured he was giving me a snow job so that I'd buy from him.


John

70.4SUMMIT::HOGLUNDThu Jan 03 1985 10:052
I'm interested in buying foul weather gear. How do I get in touch with Top Gear?

70.5LATOUR::RDFThu Jan 03 1985 11:186
Ditto.  I couldn't get to Newport this year, so I don't have my regular pile
of glossys and catalogs.  If you can put the addresses or phone numbers of 
some of these places in here, I'd appreciate it.

Rick

70.6NISYSG::RODENHISERThu Jan 03 1985 15:2947
Here's the TopGear address. I'll append the other addresses tomorrow when I
have the Practical Sailor article.

        TopGear
        The Bosun's Locker
        Royal Harbour, Ramsgate
        Kent, England

        Telephone: (0843) 588732
        Telex: 965093 Eurom G
           Attn: Bosuns Locker


They don't have a fancy catalog; it's just a single 8 1/2 x 11 sheet, folded 
in half with a list of prices in very fine print. I don't have the most recent
prices but here's a sample of what last year's prices were for Henri Lloyd:

     Ocean Racer Supreme jacket with harness      73.50
        "    "   Floater   "      "    "          88.65
        "    "   Supreme Trousers with fly        44.30
     Voyager Jacket                               41.75
        "    Trousers                             36.50
     Portland Standard Jacket                     30.50
        "    Trousers                             21.95
     Consort Quilted Jacket                       37.85
        "    Floater   "                          52.50
     Foremost One-piece suit                      41.00
     Sovereign "   "     "                        70.50

(All prices are in British Pounds. You can get the current rate of exchange
in most any large newspaper, I think it's approximately 1.14 right now. The
conversion will be handled for you if you pay by credit card.)

I have the 1983 Henri Lloyd brochure and price list. Let me know if you'd like
me to make a copy. By way of conparison, the suggested retail price for the
Ocean Racer Floater Jacket with harness is $350.00 here in the US.

Shipping on the above varies between 10 and 12 pounds depending on weight. 
These items are declared as rain clothing and I paid duty (approx $7.00) on the
first two suits because the total order exceeded $100. The next order for one
suit was less than $100 and so I paid no duty. It may make sense to break up 
your order if you want several items. There are no shipping cost savings by
combining everything into one package. They charge a fixed amount for each item.
Let me know if you need any more info.

John

70.7LATOUR::RDFThu Jan 03 1985 20:575
Thanks.  I would like a copy of the Lloyds brochure.  Send me mail when you
have it, and Ill give you the mail stop.

Rick

70.8HAYDN::RODENHISERMon Jan 07 1985 14:3112
In a previous response I gave some faulty information with respect to
shipping items from England.

It appears that almost everything (including anchors) is shipped by AIR.
The exception (at least by TopGear) is that liferafts are sent by
Ocean Freight.

Items shipped by AIR will arrive at your local PO where you pay duty
as required.

John

70.9MOTHER::BERENSThu Jan 10 1985 12:5013
Liferafts can be shipped air freight, but they cannot be carried on 
passenger planes (due to the pyrotechnics and compressed gas bottles).
If you have something shipped to you air freight, consider picking it
up at the airport since the freight forwarding (trucking) companies
charge a lot for their services. Check to be sure that the customs 
officer is on duty before you go to the airport (he/she isn't always
around). Air freight on an Avon liferaft (about 90 pounds weight) was,
as I recall, about $70 and duty under $40. Paying the duty and loading
the liferaft into my van took less than half an hour.

Alan