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Conference turris::scandia

Title:All about Scandinavia
Moderator:TLE::SAVAGE
Created:Wed Dec 11 1985
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:603
Total number of notes:4325

483.0. "Laws prohibit promoting racial bigotry" by TLE::SAVAGE () Mon Sep 16 1991 12:05

    Following are two examples that illustrate cultural differences in
    approach to the issue of "free speach".  Presented in this way, one
    could argue that the United States (with its constitutional "Bill of
    Rights") is more '_liberal_' in its tolerance than are nations that
    have laws prohibiting publicly advocating racial supremacy &
    inferiority.
    
    Question: Both Canada and Sweden have such laws.  What about Denmark,
    Finland, Iceland, and Norway?
    
    From: [email protected] (Magnus Rimvall)
    Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: The Myth of Swedish Socialism
    Date: 14 Sep 91 00:53:11 GMT
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: Schenectady, NY
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Bertil Jonell)
    writes:
 
    >  There is free speech and free newspapers in Sweden.
 
    ... 
    you are not free to express your own opinion the way you are in,
    say, the United States.  An example:
 
    SWEDEN :
    
    Svenska Dagbladet recently ran an article on an (extremist) youth  who
    had received a jail sentence of 4 months for distributing  pamphlets
    advocating white race supremacy [a notion that *I*  *personally* find
    despicable, but that is beside the point]. 
 
    USA :
    
    Two professors at CUNY (City University of New York) recently found
    themselves in the spotlight for independently of each other giving
    public speaches claiming the supremacy of their  own race. One
    professor was white, the other black. A US court  decided last month
    that the white professor can not be kicked out from his position as he
    has committed no crime - he just  exercised his right to free speach. 
    It is expected that the  black professor will keep his position too.
 
    To quote somebody (?):  Definition of free speach: When you have the
    power to stop somebody from expressing an  opinion with which you do
    not agree, but you allow him/her to express that opinion anyway.
 
    Magnus Rimvall
    Standard Disclaimer
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483.1Swedish law, clarificationTLE::SAVAGETue Sep 17 1991 10:3029
    From: [email protected] (Bertil Jonell)
    Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: The Myth of Swedish Socialism
    Date: 16 Sep 91 07:57:10 GMT
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg, Sweden
 
    The law called "Hets mot folkgrupp" (Incitement against ethnic group)
    and  that means that it has a rather limited scope. Claiming that all
    immigrants are parasites that should be expelled is for example *not*
    punishable, as immigrants isn't an ethnic group. I don't think claiming
    that a certain ethnic group is superior to all others is punishable
    either, because it isn't incitement *against* anyone.

    (That bozo you mention above must have said something negative about a 
    specific group.)

    To make a net.comparision, neither Schmidling nor Martillio would be
    covered by this law, and I suspect that the so-called "Ralph Winston"
    would get off free too.
 
    There is however a new law in the works that would make it punishable
    to be a member of a "racist organization". I don't know who would
    determine if a organization is racist or not, and I think the
    opportunities for abuse are astronomic.
 
   -bertil-
   --
   "Det a"r en Svensk grej. Du skulle inte fo"rsta^..."
483.2Laws are ineffectiveBSS::GLODDY_RMon Sep 23 1991 09:312
    Its too bad that there are no man made laws that reach the heart, where
    the problem festers.
483.3Anti-Nazi law in NorwayOSL09::MAURITZDTN(at last!)872-0238; @NWOMon Oct 14 1991 09:0738
    In Norway there is definitely a law against certain types of
    disparaging descriptions against racial or religious groups. This was
    formulated to counter Nazi-type ideology. Regrettably, I do not know
    the wording of the law, but it may be a bit like the Swedish one---
    possibly a bit stronger.
    
    On the other hand, the courts (especially the Norwegian Supreme Court)
    is EXTREMELY cautious in its application, due to the freedom of the
    press and freedom of speech inherent in our constitution. The law did
    come into being after WW II, and like all Norwegian law, it has a body
    of documentation (e.g., debates in Parliament) which define its INTENT.
    In the interpretation of any such laws in Norway, great emphasis is
    always placed on the basic intent of a given law (a further
    Scandinavian peculiarity also places emphasis on how a law is
    subsequently practiced, though the Anglo-Saxon "precedense" is not as
    strong here).
    
    As to "what is freedom of speech/expression?", this cannot be
    categorically stated given only the US Constitutional definition
    (which, as I recall, contains the phrase "Congress shall make no laws
    limiting..."; thus being perceived as "absolute"). Note that even in
    the US, libel is illegal (though you do have to prove malice of
    intent). Here in Norway, for example, the burden of proof in a libel
    case is on the person making the statement.
    
    You could obviously boil this down to a debate on just whom the law
    seeks to protect in a single given case. Which "individual"s right is
    to be protected, when two opposing "rights" seem to collide? Is it
    ethically right to say that one type of right (to print and say what
    you like) will always prevail against another (say, an individual's
    right to "life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness")?
    
    As to the last statement in .-1, I believe that laws as they represent
    a fundamental sense of justice in a given society, they also have a
    role in formulating basic attitudes. Thus, laws do indeed "reach the
    heart" (though the path may sometimes be less than smooth).
    
    Mauritz