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Conference turris::scandia

Title:All about Scandinavia
Moderator:TLE::SAVAGE
Created:Wed Dec 11 1985
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:603
Total number of notes:4325

412.0. "Impacts of Persian Gulf War 1990-91" by CHARLT::SAVAGE () Mon Aug 20 1990 14:08

    From: [email protected] (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 15 Aug 90 09:33:45 GMT
    Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Lyle Davis) writes:

   > What is the effect on Scandinavia, particularly Norway, of the current
   > tension in the Mideast?
 
    In Sweden, the stock market has gone down, the interest rate has gone
    up and  gasoline prices have gone up. About half the time of a TV news
    program is  spent on Iraq. The foreign department worries about Swedish
    citizens in Iraq  and Kuwait. I would guess the same goes for the rest
    of Scandinavia...
 
 >         I've read and heard in the various media of a number of nations that
 > are joining the economic blockade of Iraq but don't recall what, if any,
 > participation the nordic states are taking.  What appears to be the public
 > sentiment there?
 
    Swedish policy is that we join all UN-decided sanctions and no other.
    When  Iraq first invaded there was a lot of fuss from the political
    opposition  (especially the conservatives) that we should join the
    blockade. The  government refused until the UN decision came.
 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson                           Internet: [email protected]
Swedish Institute of Computer Science          Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263                                       Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Fridrik Skulason)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 15 Aug 90 11:45:14 GMT
    Organization: University of Iceland (RHI)
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Lyle Davis) writes:
>
>        What is the effect on Scandinavia, particularly Norway, of the current
>tension in the Mideast?
 
    As can be expected, the oil-exporting Nordic country (Norway) will
    probably benefit from this, while this will probably have a negative
    effect on the economy the other countries.
 
>..are joining the economic blockade of Iraq but don't recall what, if any,
>participation the nordic states are taking.  What appears to be the public
>sentiment there?
 
    A complete ban on (imports from/exports to) Iraq and Kuwait was
    approved here in Iceland a few days ago.  This is a mere formality,
    though, as there have not been any imports from those countries
    previously - we get almost all our oil from the Soviet Union.
 
    We have two month's worth of oil/gasoline in reserve - after that, a
    price increase can be expected.
 
    -frisk
 
-- 
Fridrik Skulason      University of Iceland  |       
Technical Editor of the Virus Bulletin (UK)  |  Reserved for future expansion
E-Mail: [email protected]    Fax: 354-1-28801  |   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Kim Christian Madsen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 15 Aug 90 14:53:36 GMT
    Organization: Department Of Computer Science, University Of Copenhagen
 
    [email protected] (Lars-Henrik Eriksson) writes:
 
>In Sweden, the stock market has gone down, the interest rate has gone up and 
>gasoline prices have gone up. About half the time of a TV news program is 
>spent on Iraq. The foreign department worries about Swedish citizens in Iraq 
>and Kuwait. I would guess the same goes for the rest of Scandinavia...
 
    The situation depicted above is grossly reflected in Denmark too.
    However, unlike Sweden who are about to move the embassy of Kuwait to
    Bagdad, Denmark like the other EEC members, refuse to recognize either
    a puppet gouvernment in Kuwait or the Iraqi annexation of Kuwait, and
    have their embassy stay in Kuwait City, at least until all Danish
    (Swedish?) citizens have left Kuwait safe or forced out. The Danish
    embassy in Kuwait acts much like a communication center for foreigners
    trapped inside Kuwait, who wants to send message to their families or
    loved-ones (a service from the Danish Foreign Secretariat, used now by
    Scandinavians and British now in Kuwait). The messages are of cause
    encoded to prevent the Iraqis to intercept names etc. to prevent harm
    to the ones using the service.
 
    If the naval presence in the Middle-East becomes under U.N. flag the
    Danish government are prepared to send re-inforcements to the Gulf, but
    are right now considering the possibility of sending field hospitals to
    the region.
 
					Kim Chr. Madsen
					[email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Jonny Axelsson)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: re: Iraq
    Date: 16 Aug 90 21:06:56 GMT
    Organization: None at all
 
    The official line is that the Norwegian goverment will earn 50 MNOK
    more each day in revenues at a price of 23-24 USD/barrel (at the
    current low exchange rate of the $ that's roughly 8-8.5 MUSD), but that
    this is a short term gain, and that it is in the economical interest of
    Norway to have stable international conditions and oil prices (i.e.
    that any gains would be lost in a general recession and less revenue
    from shipping (if Norway gain anything from that at all)).
 
    According to an ad in Norwegian papers it is now highly illegal to
    export anything to anyone remotely Irakian or Kuwaitian, import
    anything form anyone remotely Irakian or Kuwaitian, to have any
    financial transaction or touch any financial asset remotely Irakian or
    Kuwaitian. Humanitarian aid and medical supplies were excepted. 
 
    The most farfetched official reaction came from the current defence
    minister, that stated that due to the situation in the Middle East, the
    defence budget should not be cut. Indeed. You never know about these
    arabic despot types. Saddam Hussein may just now be ready to take a
    grab for the Norwegian off shore oil fields, just passing through
    Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Austria, Germany, Denmark and
    Sweden.
 
    (For those weak in geography, Norway is tucked away in one of the least
    accessible corners of the world, making it military vulnerable to only
    Sweden (quite), Finland (not so), Russia (only on a very bad day) or by
    someone with a really superior air/naval force (i.e. USA)).
 
    Otherwise it's business as usual (except with I/K), but the people that
    were enthusing about all those greasy contracts available rebuilding
    Irak after the war are noticably quiet.
 
   Jonny
   4. floor
 
   Norway

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Ulf Dahlen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 17 Aug 90 09:25:20 GMT
    Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kim Christian Madsen) writes:

    >However, unlike Sweden who are about to move the embassy of Kuwait to
    >Bagdad, Denmark like the other EEC members, refuse to recognize either
    >a puppet gouvernment in Kuwait or the Iraqi annexation of Kuwait, and
    >have their embassy stay in Kuwait City, at least until all Danish
    >(Swedish?) citizens have left Kuwait safe or forced out.
 
    Are you sure Sweden is going to move its embassy? Why on earth for? Are
    they recognizing Iraq's annexation? Has Sten Andersson (Foreign
    Minister) said something stupid? (If he's opened his mouth, he has.)
    Oh, am I glad I'm out of that country or what...
 
 
    --Ulf Dahlen
    Linkoping University, Sweden   and   Edinburgh University, Scotland
    Internet: [email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Kim Christian Madsen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 17 Aug 90 23:24:26 GMT
    Organization: Department Of Computer Science, University Of Copenhagen
  
    [email protected] (Jonny Axelsson) writes:
 
 >The most farfetched official reaction came from the current defence minister,
 >that stated that due to the situation in the Middle East, the defence budget
 >should not be cut. Indeed. You never know about these arabic despot types.
 >Saddam Hussein may just now be ready to take a grab for the Norwegian off
 >shore oil fields, just passing through Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary,
 >Austria, Germany, Denmark and Sweden.
 
    If he isn't stopped, he might, in due time! 1/4 :-)
 
    However, Europe must realize that it must take our share of the
    responsibility toward what is going on in our backyard. Remember that
    Turkey is a full-fledged NATO member and an attack on Turkey must be
    considered an attack on both NATO and Europe (Even though somebody
    claims that Turkey is only half European or even less). Furthermore,
    with the events in the world today, we have to stand up as civilized
    countries trying to quell regional unrest, not only in the Middle East,
    but probably soon in Northern Africa. We cannot continue to hide under
    the umbrella of the US military force, soon it will be gone anyway,
    they probably only keeps a force strong enough to defend themselves, in
    case of an attack and a tiny force for operations outside the American
    Continent. Europe then inherits the responsibilities left from the US
    in the vicinity of Europe, the real problem is who is going to take
    care of the Far East, Asia and most of Africa?
 
					Best Regards,
					Kim Chr. Madsen
					[email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Kim Christian Madsen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 17 Aug 90 23:42:11 GMT
    Organization: Department Of Computer Science, University Of Copenhagen
 
    [email protected] (Ulf Dahlen) writes:
 
    [I wrote:]
    >>However, unlike Sweden who are about to move the embassy of Kuwait to
    >>Bagdad, Denmark like the other EEC members, refuse to recognize either
    >>a puppet gouvernment in Kuwait or the Iraqi annexation of Kuwait, and
    >>have their embassy stay in Kuwait City, at least until all Danish
    >>(Swedish?) citizens have left Kuwait safe or forced out.
 
    >Are you sure Sweden is going to move its embassy? Why on earth for?
    >Are they recognizing Iraq's annexation? Has Sten Andersson (Foreign
    >Minister) said something stupid? (If he's opened his mouth, he has.)
    >Oh, am I glad I'm out of that country or what...
 
    I'm not certain about anything these days when the issue is the Middle
    East, moods, promises, agreements, etc. change from hour to hour. The
    reference for the Swedish disission to move their embassy from Kuwait
    City to Bagdad, was made in the Danish Television News, and the reason
    was that Sweden feared retaliatory actions from the Iraqies if they did
    not comply with order given by Saddam Hussein!
 
    I fear that if we [Denmark] hadn't had Uffe Ellemann-Jensen as Foreign
    Secretary, we would have taken the same [regretable] action as Sweden
    seems to take. One can be mad at UEJ for many reasons, but he is
    however, a stern believer in European coorporation, EEC, and NATO, and
    as this crisis unravels I believe that he has handled the Danish
    response statemanslike and praiseworthy, by taking a firm stand against
    the kind of aggression that cannot go by untold.
 
    My primary hope for the future is that once this crisis is over, that 
    (Bagdad will be re-settled :-), no! that the same measures used against
    Iraq will be taken against any other aggressor, in an area where the
    stategic stakes maybe aren't that high, and that if it happens on the
    doorstep of Europe, we will be seen to have matured to the degree where
    it is us that invites the US to join forces if it is needed, and not
    the other way around.
 
						Best Wishes
						Kim Chr. Madsen
						[email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Markku Sakkinen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Oil pricing
    Date: 17 Aug 90 12:40:07 GMT
    Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
 
 
    In Finland, the state-owned company Neste (not to be confused with the
    Swiss Nestle') has almost total monopoly on the import of oil products.
    Immediately after the Iraqi invasion, the prices were raised liberally.
    It's a perfect match anyway: the world's most expensive fuel for the
    world's most expensive cars. (Fortunately the amount of oil that my
    bicycle needs annually is negligible.)
 
    Reply-To: [email protected] (Markku Sakkinen)
    Markku Sakkinen
    Department of Computer Science
    University of Jyvaskyla (a's with umlauts)
    Seminaarinkatu 15
    SF-40100 Jyvaskyla (umlauts again)
    Finland
              [email protected] (alternative network address)
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
412.1Swedish Embassy moveCHARLT::SAVAGEMon Aug 20 1990 14:1171
    From: [email protected] (JULIAN M. ISHERWOOD)          
    Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.europe,
	clari.news.issues.conflict,clari.news.hot.iraq,biz.clarinet.sample,
	clari.news.trouble,clari.news.consumer
    Subject: Kuwait has no food shortages and Iraqis are disciplined,
	ambassador says
    Keywords: international, non-usa government, government, war & peace,
	social issues, starvation, trouble, consumer, economy
    Date: 12 Aug 90 20:49:20 GMT
    Location: denmark, kuwait
    ACategory: international
    Slugword: iraq-kuwait
 
    	COPENHAGEN, Denmark (UPI) -- Food is plentiful in Kuwait and Iraqi
    soldiers are acting in a "reasonably disciplined fashion," Denmark's
    ambassador to Kuwait said Sunday in a radio interview, but he added
    that Kuwaitis and foreigners were concerned about water supplies and
    electricity.  "There is more food in Kuwait than there is money to buy,
    so there is no question in the near future of there being food
    shortages," Ambassador Birger Dan Nielsen said in a live
    radio-telephone report from Kuwait City.

    	"The authorities have announced today that credit cards may be used
    to buy up to $50 worth of goods per day," Nielsen added.  But he said
    residents of Kuwait City worried what might happen if water supplied
    and the electricity that powers air conditioners were interrupted.

    	"We have temperatures of up to 50 degrees Celsius (122 F) at the
    moment, and the situation will get extremely serious very quickly if
    water supplies and electricity for air conditioning fail," Nielsen
    said.  "But at the moment there seems to be plenty of both
    commodities," he added.

    	Nielson said Kuwait City was "teeming" with Iraqi soldiers who had
    set up control posts at all strategic locations in the city.	
    "One is frequently checked, but in general it all takes place in a
    reasonably disciplined fashion," Nielsen said.  "In general I must say
    that the invasion took place without any major losses in the civilian
    population, although there is much destruction," the ambassador added.

    	He said telephone services in Kuwait and Kuwait City, in
    particular, were difficult and appeared to have been split into three
    areas.  "But we have found telephones from which it seems relatively
    easy to cross from one section to another and we are in contact with
    all (83) Danish citizens in Kuwait each day," Nielsen said.

    	He added that foreigners in Kuwait had shown "amazing discipline
    and ingenuity" and had arranged car pools and contact nets to keep in
    touch with each other.  "They have all packed so that they can be ready
    at a moment's notice as soon as the decision is taken to move them
    out," Nielsen said.

    	But Denmark's foreign minister, Uffe Ellemann-Jensen, who listened
    to the report on national television's main Sunday night news program,
    said his advice to nationals in Kuwait and Iraq was to stay calm,
    remain indoors and keep in touch with their embassy.  "It is too
    dangerous a trip to suggest, at the moment, that they try to leave,"
    Uffe Ellemann-Jensen said.

    	He added that Denmark would not accede to a demand by Iraq that the
    Danish Embassy should be moved from Kuwait to Baghdad, following
    Kuwait's annexation by Iraq.  "We will remain in Kuwait," Uffe
    Ellemann-Jensen said, although he did not rule out the possibility that
    the embassy could be physically forced to move to Baghdad.	"If we are
    forced (by Iraq) to leave then we will have to go, but until such time
    as that happens we will remain in Kuwait City," the foreign minister
    said.

    	Denmark's neighbor Sweden said Sunday that its embassy in Kuwait
    City will acquiesce to Baghdad's demand that it move its embassy, and
    had begun preparations to make a diplomatic move on Tuesday.
412.2Forced unloading of Norwegian shipCHARLT::SAVAGEMon Aug 20 1990 14:1448
    From: [email protected]
    Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.europe,
	clari.news.fighting,clari.news.economy,clari.news.hot.iraq,biz.clarinet.sample
    Subject: Claim Norwegian vessel forced to unload by Jordan
    Keywords: international, non-usa government, government, fighting,
	non-usa economies, economy
    Date: 14 Aug 90 18:37:50 GMT
    Location: norway, jordan
    ACategory: international
    Slugword: iraq-norway
 
    	OSLO, Norway (UPI) -- A Norwegian ship captain was forced by
    Jordanian police to unload grain bound for Iraq from his vessel in the
    port of Aqaba, media reports said Tuesday. 	Government spokesmen said
    the incident, which took place last week, was to be fully investigated
    and "appropriate action" taken if the incident violated a United
    Nations embargo on trade with Iraq.

    	The report, published in most Norwegian newspapers Tuesday, said
    the 86,000-ton, Norwegian-owned and Liberia registered vessel Tanga was
    forced to unload its cargo of grain after its captain was arrested by
    Jordanian police.  "We stopped unloading in order to fulfill boycott
    requirements from the Norwegian authorities," Jan Pedersen, Managing
    Director of the Tanga owners Jebsen line, told the newspaper
    Aftenposten.  "The captain was then arrested by the Jordanian police
    and threatened, forcing him to resume offloading. The captain agreed in
    order to ensure the safety of his crew," Pedersen added.  He did not
    elaborate on what threats had been issued to the unnamed captain.

    	Sources in Jordan said the cargo was not covered by the embargo
    because it had arrived in Aqaba before the sanctions went into effect.	
    Pedersen said he had informed both Norway's Foreign Ministry and the
    Norwegian Shipping Association, many of whose members ply trade routes
    in the Persian Gulf.

    	"The incident will be investigated, but given the apparent
    circumstances it seems unlikely the owners will be legally held
    responsible for breaking the embargo," said Foreign Ministry spokesman
    Bjorn Blokhus.  He said appropriate action would be taken when full
    reports had been submitted.

    	On Aug. 6. the Security Council resolution approved an embargo on
    trade with Iraq following that country's invasion and annexation of
    Kuwait.  Norway immediately complied, ordering all Norwegian companies
    and vessels to stop any trading with Iraq.  But since the embargo, the
    Jordanian port of Aqaba appears to have become a surreptitious safety
    valve for Baghdad, with convoys of trucks plying highways from the port
    to the Iraqi border.
412.3More newsgroup discussionsCHARLT::SAVAGEWed Aug 22 1990 15:54201
    From: [email protected] (Jonny Axelsson)                      
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,eunet.politics
    Subject: re: Iraq & Send in the EuroMarines!
    Date: 19 Aug 90 22:43:27 GMT
    Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University in Oslo, Norway
 
    [email protected] (Kim Christian Madsen) quotes me:
 
    The most farfetched official reaction came from the current defence
    minister, that stated that due to the situation in the Middle East, the
    defence budget should not be cut. Indeed. You never know about these
    arabic despot types. Saddam Hussein may just now be ready to take a
    grab for the Norwegian off shore oil fields, just passing through
    Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Austria, Germany, Denmark and
    Sweden.
 
    and he replies:
 
    If he isn't stopped, he might, in due time! 1/4 :-)
 
    However, Europe must realize that it must take our share of the
    responsibility toward what is going on in our backyard. Remember that
    Turkey is a full-fledged NATO member and an attack on Turkey must be
    considered an attack on both NATO and Europe. [...\
 
    Furthermore, with the events in the world today, we have to stand up as
    civilized countries trying to quell regional unrest, not only in the
    Middle East, but probably soon in Northern Africa. 
 
    To this I counter:
 
    Actually, that line is just a last ditch defence for the defence budget
    (like in most other West European countries). Of course, by treaty, an
    attack on Turkey is an attack on Norway (or Denmark or Spain), but in
    practice the Norwegian forces would be as useful (or less) in Turkey as
    Turkish forces in Norway (that is as more cannon fodder). The Norwegian
    military capabilities are mainly (locally) defensive, what offensive
    strike capability there is is directed against "the enemy" (guess who).
    They might send some F-16 kamikaze droppers or something down there
    though.
 
    Besides, I find a real attack on Turkey extremely unlikely, as it
    doesn't strike me as a rational thing to do, since (as far as I know)
    he can't win such a conflict, and anyway the gain wouldn't stand up to
    the losses. And don't give me the line that SH is a madman, everything
    he's done so far has been (reprehensibly) rational. It's just that he's
    not considered one of "ours" any longer. Invading their neighbors is a
    customary thing for military leaders to do. The only unique thing about
    this case is that he has no powerful ally, and that he is doing it in a
    dangerous area.
 
    An European defence system will probably be built that will efficiently
    annihilate anyone entering European soil without proper entrance visas.
    But I find the thought extremely repulsive that this system should be
    used for party hopping US marine style whenever they feel the urge
    (probably before any major election), and there is some "regional
    unrest" to "quell". The European style is to stay out of the conflict
    and sell arms to both sides, probably because the bankers have much
    higher clout than the defence industry. If this coming system is going
    to be used in a way you describe (and which many European would like,
    notably the Military-Entertainment Complex), I don't know if this part
    of the world would be fit to live in any longer.
 
    Anyone knows how to apply for political asylum in Canada?
 
    Jonny
    4th floor
    Norway

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Kjartan Stefansson)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq-hostages
    Date: 20 Aug 90 03:48:03 GMT
    Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept. Ithaca NY
 
    [email protected] (Jedidiah Jon Palosaari) writes:
 
    >I noticed on the news that Finns (among others) were released from
    >Iraq.  Does anyone know approximately how many Finnish were being
    >held in Iraq?
 
    No, but someone told me that there were about 500 people from the
    nordic countries in Iraq and Kuwait (Including nine Icelanders.  I
    think we should send our army over!)  From what I caught on the news,
    the Swedes and Finns seemed to be the only nordic people to be
    released.
 
    >Jedidiah Palosaari
 
    Kjartan.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 20 Aug 90 07:11:21 GMT
    Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kim
    Christian  Madsen) writes:

    > The
    > reference for the Swedish disission to move their embassy from Kuwait
    > City to Bagdad, was made in the Danish Television News, and the reason
    > was that Sweden feared retaliatory actions from the Iraqies if they
    > did not comply with order given by Saddam Hussein!
 
    From articles in "Dagens Nyheter" today and yesterday it seems quite
    clear  that Sweden has no plans to move its embassy in Kuwait, and that
    it considers  the Iraqui order to do so as invalid.
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kim
    Christian  Madsen) writes:

    > Europe then inherits the
    > responsibilities left from the US in the vicinity of Europe, the real
    > problem is who is going to take care of the Far East, Asia and most of
    > Africa?
 
    What do you really mean by this? Is sounds like "white man's burden" to
    me.
 
 
 Lars-Henrik Eriksson                           Internet: [email protected]
 Swedish Institute of Computer Science          Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
 Box 1263                                       Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
 S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (J{rvinen Hannu-Matti)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq-hostages
    Date: 20 Aug 90 10:31:27 GMT
    Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Finland
 
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jedidiah Jon
    Palosaari) writes:

    >I noticed on the news that Finns (among others) were released from
    >Iraq.  Does anyone know approximately how many Finnish were being
    >held in Iraq?
 
    23 in Kuweit and 23 in Iraq + diplomats. It isn't known yet, if all of
    them are released (I hope they begin with children).

    -----
    Hannu-Matti Jarvinen, [email protected]
    Opinions of tut != opinions of mine, and vice versa.
    TTKK on samaa mielt{ kanssani siit{, ett{ en edusta sen mielipidett{.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Tom Haapanen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq-hostages
    Date: 20 Aug 90 12:07:03 GMT
    Organization: University of Waterloo, WATMIMS Research Group
 
    Jedidiah Jon Palosaari <[email protected]> writes:

    > I noticed on the news that Finns (among others) were released from
    > Iraq.  Does anyone know approximately how many Finnish were being
    > held in Iraq?
 
    Some figures from UPI, via ClariNet:
 
    Nationals released:
    	Austria		  70 in Kuwait	  70 in Iraq
    	Finland		  23 		  27
  	Portugal	   ?		   ?
	Sweden		 140		  40
	Switzerland	  97		  69
 
    Nationals held hostage:
	Canada		 500 in Kuwait	 200 in Iraq
	Denmark		  83		  20
	Germany		 290		 450
	Norway		  21		  30
	Soviet Union	1000		8000
	United Kingdom	4000		 700
	United States	2500		 600
 
    And some guest workers:
	Bangladesh:	 70,000		   25,000
	Egypt		150,000		1,600,000
	India		170,000		   60,000
	Lebanon		 30,000		   20,000
	Morocco		  6,000		   30,000
	Pakistan	 90,000		   10,000
	Philippines	 60,000		    5,000
	Sri Lanka	100,000		        0
	Thailand	  7,000		    3,000
	Palestinians	300,000		  170,000
 
    As can be seen, there are lots of Egyptians and Palestinians in Iraq,
    and Kuwait had hundreds of thousands of guest workers from southeast
    Asia.  Many of these are currently permitted to leave as well.
 
  [ \tom haapanen --- university of waterloo --- [email protected] ]
  [ "i don't even know what street canada is on"               -- al capone ]
412.4No one's been released, no embassy has moved voluntarilyCHARLT::SAVAGEFri Aug 24 1990 11:4992
    From: [email protected] (Anders Andersson)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 20 Aug 90 19:21:22 GMT
    Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kim
    Christian Madsen) writes: >[email protected] (Ulf Dahlen) writes:

  >>>However, unlike Sweden who are about to move the embassy of Kuwait to
  >>>Bagdad, Denmark like the other EEC members, refuse to recognize either
 
   >>Are you sure Sweden is going to move its embassy? Why on earth for?
   >>Are they recognizing Iraq's annexation? Has Sten Andersson (Foreign
   >>Minister) said something stupid? (If he's opened his mouth, he has.)
 
    I think he's pretty aware of this, because he can be quite reluctant to
    say things at times. He had reportedly discussed the Iraqi intent of
    moving all westerners to certain hotels with his Nordic colleagues, but
    refused to say what advice they had agreed to give their respective
    nationals in Kuwait, "out of concern for their safety". However, the
    reporter considered this silence strange given that the Norwegian and
    Danish foreign offices had already disclosed their instructions...
 
    >I'm not certain about anything these days when the issue is the Middle
    >East, moods, promises, agreements, etc. change from hour to hour. The
    >reference for the Swedish disission to move their embassy from Kuwait
    >City to Bagdad, was made in the Danish Television News, and the reason
    >was that Sweden feared retaliatory actions from the Iraqies if they
    >did not comply with order given by Saddam Hussein!
 
    Not only did they spread an unfounded rumour about us moving to Bagdad,
    they even provided a reason for us to do so!? I have not seen any
    indications supporting this, neither have I heard about that rumour
    before (but neither do I watch Danish television). Quite on the
    contrary, the Swedish embassy stays in Kuwait as long as needed, and
    goes nowhere.
 
    If I may guess what caused the confusion, it might be that the EC
    countries were pretty quick to reject Saddam's request, while the
    Swedish Foreign Office was still reportedly "conferring with other
    countries" on the issue. I don't think there were many hours of delay
    before they joined the choir.
 
    One interesting development is Saddam's appearant attempt to divide the
    western opinion by offering citizens of "neutral" countries to leave.
    Does he by any chance think that our non-alignment policy means we are
    neutral with respect to the invasion of Kuwait? Does he expect us to
    start beating each other like kids for being unfairly treated by him?
    The fewer hostages, the better, but I doubt he'll release all of ours
    in one move.
 
    I have yet to see the yellow-and-blue on fire in Amman or elsewhere. It
    sure is convenient for them to single out their traditional enemies and
    forget about everybody else. What is the point of me protesting, if
    they don't hear it and burn MY flag? Being labelled as a "friend" by
    the enemy is a pretty hopeless situation.

    -- 
    Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
    Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
    Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: [email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Kolkka Markku Olavi)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq-hostages
    Date: 21 Aug 90 09:01:25 GMT
    Organization: Finnish University and Research Network FUNET
 
 
    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Tom Haapanen) writes:
    
    |> > Does anyone know approximately how many Finnish were being
    |> > held in Iraq?
    |> 
    |> Some figures from UPI, via ClariNet:
    |> 
    |> Nationals released:
    |> 	Finland		  23 		  27
    [...]
 
    Talking about "were being held" or "nationals released" is premature.
    The Iraqi _promised_ that an unspecified number of nationals of various
    neutral states would be given permission to leave country sometimes in
    the future.  So far (according to last news I heard) NO ONE has
    _actually_ been released.
 
    --
	Markku Kolkka
	[email protected]
412.5More on Swedish Embassy et al.CHARLT::SAVAGEWed Aug 29 1990 13:2380
    From: [email protected] (Bertil Jonell)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 23 Aug 90 08:51:57 GMT
    Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg, Sweden.
  
    The latest thing that I heard was that the Swedish Embassy in Kuweit
    was going to be closed, closed but not shut down... The alleged reason
    was that there is only three diplomats there and all of them are needed
    to take care of the Swedes who are supposed to be travelling by convoy
    from Bagdad to Turkey.
 
    That way our 'great' foreign minister can say that Sweden won't budge
    for Saddam Hussein at the same time as the embassy in Kuweit is closed
    and Saddam is kept happy.
 
    BTW, he (the foreign minister) also practically claimed that it was his
    'silent diplomacy' that effected the release of the swedes. He failed
    to explain why finns, austrians etc. also were released at the same
    time...
 
    'Silent dimplomacy' is the Swedish equivalent of 'Matters of the
    National  Security', that is, the buzzword that the foreign department
    hides it's failures behind.
 
    -bertil-
    --
    Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
    NET: [email protected] 
    VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
    SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Kim Christian Madsen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 24 Aug 90 19:20:11 GMT
    Organization: Department Of Computer Science, University Of Copenhagen
 
    [email protected] (Annika Forsten DC) writes:
 
   >The Swedes and the Finns are still on the Iraq side of the Turkish border.
   >Yesterday they said on the news that 10% will be allowed to leave, no more.
   >That means 5 Finns (including a pregnant woman). Does Saddam want something
   >in exchange for the others? No, he says. Who believes him?
 
    The latest rumor (though it could as well be spoken by the mouth of
    S.H.) is that only women and children under 18 are allowed to escape
    from Iraq, and only those with relatives still in Hussein's grasp, so
    that he can keep the "freed" hostages from going to the press and feel
    free to tell them whatever they want to say to the press about their
    stay in Kuwait or Iraq.
 
					Kim Chr. Madsen

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Lennart Boerjeson @ KTH/LNE,
	The Royal Inst. of Tech.)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 24 Aug 90 07:40:33 GMT
    Organization: KTH School of E.E.
 
    This mornings papers reports that the Ambassador and the 1:st secretary
    stays in the embassy. Only the Ambassador's wife followed the second
    convoy out of Kuwait. The reason given was that as only one swede out
    of 30 remaining in Kuwait actually wanted out, only one person with
    diplomatic status was needed to accompany the convoy. The foreign
    minister has said on television that the primary mission of the Embassy
    is to protect swedish citizens in Kuwait. As long as any remain,
    they'll try to keep the Embassy running.
 
    !++
    ! Lennart Boerjeson, System Manager
    ! School of Electrical Engineering
    ! Royal Institute of Technology
    ! S-100 44 Stockholm, Sweden
    ! tel: int+46-8-7907814
    ! Internet: [email protected]
    !--
412.6Swedish Ambassador's wife departedCHARLT::SAVAGEFri Aug 31 1990 09:5424
    From: [email protected] (Per-Erik Martin)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 24 Aug 90 14:21:10 GMT
    Organization: Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University, Sweden
   
 --
    
    According to today's newspapers the Swedish Ambassador (Ingolf Kiesow)
    and the first Secretary (Lars-G|ran Paulsson) is still at the Embassy
    in Kuwait and they will stay there. The Ambassador's wife left with one
    other swede in the last convoy.

    The deadline set by Iraq expired at noon today, but according to CNN
    nothing has yet happened to the remaining Embassy staffs.

    BTW, the newspaper (Dagens Nyheter) claims that the last Finnish
    diplomat left Kuwait last tuesday.
 
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Per-Erik Martin, ZYX Sweden AB, Bangardsgatan 13, S-753 20  Uppsala, Sweden -
- Email: [email protected]                                                           -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
412.7Danish foreign minister speaks outCHARLT::SAVAGETue Sep 04 1990 14:0886
    From: [email protected] (JULIAN M. ISHERWOOD)
    Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.hot.iraq,
	biz.clarinet.sample,clari.news.europe
    Subject: Denmark chides Waldheim, U.S. allies
    Keywords: international, non-usa government, government
    Date: 31 Aug 90 18:41:51 GMT
    Location: iraq, denmark
    ACategory: international
    Slugword: iraq-denmark
 
    	COPENHAGEN, Denmark (UPI) -- Denmark's foreign minister appealed
    Friday to small nations throughout the world to send one warship to the
    Persian Gulf to swell the international armada blockading Iraq.  "I
    urge all the small nations to do this as part of the United Nations
    effort to make the blockade as effective as possible and give a clear
    signal to (Iraqi president) Saddam Hussein," said Foreign Minister Uffe
    Ellemann-Jensen.

    	Ellemann-Jensen also chided America's European allies for doing 
    "too little too late" in the effort to stand up to Iraq, and criticized
    Austrian President Kurt Waldheim for a visit to Iraq that resulted in
    Austrian hostages being released. Iraq is holding Westerners to guard
    against attack by a U.S.-led multinational force.

    	The Danish official spoke as the country's parliament was to give
    the constitutional stamp of approval for deployment of a Danish multi-
    purpose corvette to the gulf. A corvette is a fast warship smaller than
    a destroyer and often used in convoys.

    	"If as many small countries as possible from around the world take
    part, it will be a major boost to the United Nations and an effort that
    will set its mark on international cooperation for years to come,"
    Ellemann-Jensen said.  "In particular it will be a clear message to
    dictators such as Saddam Hussein and give them something to think about
    before they consider invading their neighbors," the foreign minister
    added.

    	Ellemann-Jensen went on to underscore comments by British Premier
    Margaret Thatcher who Thursday chided America's allies for not acting
    quickly enough to help the military effort in the gulf region following
    Saddam's Aug. 2 invasion of Kuwait.	Speaking to delegates at a European
    Conservative Party organization conference in Finland, Thatcher said
    although there had been political support for the United States'
    immediate troop deployment, only Britain and France had been willing to
    help with military forces.

    	"Europe has given too little too late," Ellemann-Jensen said
    Friday.  "This is something we will have to take up in Europe in the
    future. We cannot expect the United States always to be there as an
    international policeman to safeguard our well-being," the foreign
    minister said.

    	He added that Denmark, along with other European nations had
    received a request from the United States to provide roll-on, roll-off
    vessels to help the further deployment of U.S. troops from America to
    the Middle East.  "We will have to look into this subject very
    carefully," Ellemann-Jensen said.

    	Denmark's government does not recognize U.S. land forces in Saudi
    Arabia as being part of a United Nations effort, unlike naval forces in
    the gulf region.

    	Ellemann-Jensen went on to deliver a sharp rebuke to Austria's
    President Kurt Waldheim for traveling to Iraq for discussions with
    Saddam that led to all Austrians being held against their will in Iraq
    being allowed to travel home.  "Of course, in the short-term Austria is
    happy that its citizens have come home," Ellemann-Jensen said.  "But
    the rift in United Nations solidarity that this caused was not good in
    the long-term. And I must admit, the sight of Waldheim and Saddam
    photographed smiling together was not pleasing," he added. 

    	Ellemann-Jensen meanwhile said a Scandinavian Airways aircraft was
    to leave Stockholm Friday night for Turkey where it was to await
    landing permission for Baghdad in order to pick up predominantly
    Swedish nationals who have already received exit visas, and others who
    expect Saturday to receive exit visas.  The aircraft, containing
    doctors and nurses, was to wait for permission to enter Iraq either at
    Istanbul airport or at Diyarbakir close to the Iraq-Turkey border. 

    	"But the Swedes are, at present, the only Nordic nation who appear
    to have actually received exit visas from the Iraqis," the foreign
    minister said.  He added Danish diplomats had not yet received exit
    visas for the 10 women and 11 children waiting in Iraq to benefit from
    a promise made by Saddam to free all foreign women and children.	
    "Quite frankly I would say that we should not pin our hopes too high,"
    Ellemann-Jensen said.
412.8Swedish embassy surroundedCHARLT::SAVAGETue Sep 04 1990 17:1118
    From: [email protected] (Bertil Jonell)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Iraq
    Date: 28 Aug 90 13:51:10 GMT
    Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg, Sweden.
 
    The thing I heard was that the ambassador were in his home (ie not at
    the embassy). This was true at least for when the deadline ran out. I'm
    not sure about now, but according to todays papers, the Swedish embassy
    was surrounded by military forces, so I imagine that the staff couldn't
    get in if they are outside.
 
    -bertil-
    --
    Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
    NET: [email protected] 
    VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
    SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
412.9Koivisto and the beaming BushCHARLT::SAVAGEWed Sep 12 1990 16:09105
    From: [email protected] (JAMES ROSEN)
    Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.europe,
	clari.news.issues.conflict,clari.news.hot.east_europe,clari.news.politics
    Subject: Bush meets with Finnish president
    Keywords: international, non-usa government, government, war & peace,
	social issues, politics
    Date: 8 Sep 90 18:51:53 GMT
    Location: finland, mideast, soviet union
    ACategory: international
    Slugword: summit-finland
 
    	HELSINKI, Finland (UPI) -- President Bush and Finnish President
    Mauno Koivisto agreed Saturday that U.N. sanctions against Iraq must be
    "fully and strictly implemented" but did not discuss a possible air
    embargo or military strike, a Finnish official said.  The two leaders
    met for 90 minutes after Bush arrived in Helsinki for his Sunday summit
    with Mikhail Gorbachev.

    	The Soviet president landed in Helsinki early Saturday evening and
    said he and Bush would meet at a "crucial moment in history."	
    Bush appeared to reject Soviet Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze's
    call for an international conference on the Middle East to deal with
    Iraq's invasion and annexation of Kuwait, telling Koivisto that the
    United Nations is the proper forum to discuss conflicts in the region.	
    Bush said in his brief arrival statement that consolidated world
    isolation of Iraq would "set in place the cornerstone of an
    international order more peaceful, stable and secure than any we have
    known."

    	In a break with past practice, Bush and Koivisto rode together in
    the Finnish president's car from Helsinki's Vantaa International
    Airport to the 19th-century Presidential Palace. Finns, some of them
    holding small American flags, lined the capital's main thoroughfare,
    Mannerheimvagen, as the motorcade passed.

    	After his talks with Koivisto over lunch, Bush stopped at an
    outdoor market on his way to the U.S. Embassy.  A beaming Bush shook
    hands with some of the hundreds of local residents who greeted him at
    the market against a colorful background of boats docked in Helsinki's
    Southern Harbor.

    	Jaako Blomberg, director of the Finnish Foreign Ministry's
    political department, told reporters that Bush and Koivisto's talks had
    focused on the Persian Gulf crisis and the internal situation in the
    Soviet Union.  "The presidents discussed the (gulf) situation primarily
    from the point of view of the U.N. Security Council and agreed on the
    need to have Security Council sanctions fully and strictly
    implemented," Blomberg said.

    	Bush and Koivisto did not discuss a U.N. air embargo, U.S. military
    action or other possible tougher steps beyond the five U.N. measures in
    place against Iraq, Blomberg said.	"Future prospects of (possible)
    decisions were not discussed, other than the enforcement of sanctions
    as they are," he said.

    	Bush and Koivisto addressed the plight of tens of thousands of
    mainly Arab and Asian refugees who have fled Iraq and occupied Kuwait
    in the wake of Baghdad's Aug. 2 invasion.  They also discussed the fate
    of foreign nationals held hostage in Iraq, agreeing that those detained
    by Iraqi President Saddam Hussein  "have to leave the country without
    any conditions," Blomberg said.  Koivisto raised concerns about the
    harmful effects of the U.N. economic blockade against Baghdad on
    Eastern and Central European countries heavily dependent on Iraqi oil
    and other imports.

    	Asked whether the two men had discussed Shevardnadze's call for an
    international conference to consider the gulf crisis in a broader
    context, Blomberg said that Bush had made a "reference ... to the
    United Nations being the proper forum for Middle East issues."	
    Shevardnadze, who arrived in Helsinki with Gorbachev, previously said:
    "I believe this (Middle East conference) plan is feasible even though,
    as far as I am aware, (U.S.) Secretary of State James Baker is not very
    enthusiastic at the moment."

    	In an apparent reference to possible unilateral military action
    against Iraq by Saudi-based U.S. troops, Shevardnadze said the
    superpower summit "will give both sides an opportunity to agree" that
    all operations in the gulf must be based on U.N. resolutions.	
    "Neither the Soviet Union nor the United States have any ready- made
    formula to achieve a peaceful settlement to the gulf crisis,"
    Shevardnadze told Soviet journalists Friday as he flew to Moscow from
    Japan to conclude a week-long Asia tour.  Shevardnadze said he was
    prepared to go to Iraq to help negotiate an end to the crisis.  But
    Gorbachev's spokesman, Vitaly Ignatenko, told reporters in Helsinki
    that Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz would not be welcome in Moscow
    for more talks unless he brought new proposals.  The invasion of Kuwait
    has seriously harmed relations between the Soviet Union and Iraq, which
    had been close allies with numerous economic and military ties.  On
    arriving at Helsinki's airport Saturday, Gorbachev said of his meeting
    with Bush, "It is important for us to compare our political approaches
    and to cooperate in order to protect the important trends developing in
    the world today." He said it was important to make sure those trends
    "are not thwarted."

    	Finns said they were proud that their neutral non-aligned country
    had been chosen as the venue for the summit.  "Finland is a small
    country, and now everyone is watching and interested in Helsinki and
    what's going to happen here," said Maria Roivas, an 18-year-old music
    student.

    	Bush noted in his arrival remarks that "the city of Helsinki has
    often been a meeting place for nations seeking to advance the cause of
    peace."  A senior Soviet official in Helsinki before Gorbachev's
    arrival said it was "absolutely unpredictable" whether the superpower
    leaders would stick to their plans of holding only one day of talks.
412.10Anchors Aweigh! COPCLU::GEOFFREYRUMMEL - The Forgotten AmericanThu Sep 13 1990 04:4625

Some of the latest developments from Scandinavia:

The Danish navy has sent a corvette (the largest type vessel in 
the fleet) on its way to join the international blockade. It
should reach the gulf on October 1st. This is the first time 
since the colonial era that a Danish warship is being sent into 
foreign waters in a projection of sea power. A Norwegian naval 
vessel will meet up with the Danish corvette and act as a supply 
ship.

The Danish shipping line Maersk has offered to sail American war 
material to the gulf for FREE! The line has 3 ro-ro container 
ships and will allow the US military to use the garage decks 
free of charge to transport large quantities of vehicles
(trucks, jeeps, and tanks). This is a remarkable move as most of
the shipping lines, including the American ones, that are
chartering tonnage to the American fleet are doing so at premium
rates. While this is a PR and Marketing coup for Maersk the
offer is apparently due to the pro-American sentiments of the
shipping line's owner - who spent WWII as a refugee in the
states. 


412.11Did any of you Finnish Noters see the broadcast?CHARLT::SAVAGEThu Sep 13 1990 13:2542
    From: [email protected]
    Newsgroups: clari.news.interest.people,clari.news.europe,clari.news.tv,
	clari.news.hot.iraq,biz.clarinet.sample,clari.news.politics.people,
	clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.hot.east_europe
    Subject: Finn to interview Saddam Hussein for summit showing.
    Keywords: international, people, human interest, television, media,
	political personalities, politics, non-usa government, government
    Date: 7 Sep 90 11:51:30 GMT
    Location: finland, iraq, soviet union
    ACategory: international
    Slugword: summit-finland
 
    	HELSINKI (UPI) -- A Finnish member of Parliament and political non-
    conformist is to interview Iraqi President Saddam Hussein for a
    television report to be aired during Sunday's superpower summit in
    Helsinki, it was reported Friday.	Finland's main Swedish language
    daily Hufvudstadsbladet said Jorgen Donner, unconventional and
    outspoken parliamentarian and former minister of culture, left for
    Baghdad with a commitment from Saddam that he would permit the
    interview. 

    	"A film company here in Finland approached me, said it had
    permission for the interview and asked if I would do the questioning,"
    Donner said.  "I would not go unless there was a firm commitment on the
    part of the Iraqi leader to agree to the interview," Donner said before
    leaving Helsinki.

    	Donner, newly appointed political spokesman for Finland's Swedish
    People's Party, was to leave Amman, Jordan, late Friday for Baghdad and
    was expected to interview Saddam Saturday before returning to Finland.	
    "I have to be back on Sunday anyway because I've promised to babysit,"
    Donner said.

    	President Bush and Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev are to meet
    Sunday in Helsinki to discuss the Persian Gulf crisis and other matters
    of bilateral interest.

    	The Finnish film company arranging the interview said it had booked
    sattelite time for its transmission Saturday.  "The interview has been
    sold to a number of countries and we have had a lot of other requests
    for the interview," a spokeswoman for the company said but refused to
    give any details.
412.12Norway's involvement debatedCHARLT::SAVAGETue Sep 25 1990 11:5333
    From: [email protected] (AAdne Bakkane)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Norway's involvement in Iraq-US conflict
    Date: 20 Sep 90 09:20:43 GMT
    Organization: Div. of CS & Telematics, Norwegian Institute of Technology
 
    [email protected] (OS) asks about the  OS>Subject: Norway's
    involvement in Iraq-US conflict
 
    The Norwegian (support of) military involvement in the Iraqi-KUWAIT (or
    Iraq-World) conflict builds upon these major considerations:
 
    * A small country is occupied by a bigger one
 
    * UN has asked its members to support a blocade,
      and the blocade can be enforced by power
 
    * Saudi Arabia has asked USA (and others) for support
 
    The Norwegian involvment includes humanitarian support for people in
    the camps in Jordan, replacement of NATO forces, and a supply ship
    (coast guard) in cooperation with a Danish ship. 
 
    There is a debate in Norway about this. The liberal right wing party
    (Fremskrittspartiet) wants an increased involvement. The coalition 
    government wants to go a bit further than they are doing now (sell
    weapons to UAE), but the socialists do not wish to go that far. (The
    government needs support from either the right wing, or from one of the
    socialist parties). The whole situation is to be debated in the
    Parliament on monday 24.
  
    -- 
    AAdne Bakkane                 [email protected]
412.13Danish warshipCHARLT::SAVAGETue Oct 02 1990 17:3039
    From: [email protected] (Lars Poulsen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Danish Warship to Persian Gulf
    Date: 28 Sep 90 21:22:06 GMT
    Organization: Rockwell CMC
 
    This story has not been mentioned in US news or this newsgroup:
 
    The Danish Navy is sending the corvette Olfert Fischer to the Persian
    Gulf to participate in the blockade against Iraq. The crew is 94: 15
    officers, 12 NCOs and 67 privates, some of which are enlisted, some
    conscripts (yes, Denmark has a peacetime draft, about half of all young
    men serve for 9 months or so).
 
    The Olfert Fischer is mainly designed/equipped for patrolling the
    Atlantic fiheries (around the Faeroe Islands), and has had to be fitted
    with airconditioning for this new mission.
 
    -----

    Other gulf war stories:
 
    Iraq has been hoarding Danish food supplies for months. In 1989, Iraq
    bought canned and dried milk from Denmark for about 4 million USD;
    during the first 6 months of 1990, Iraq purchased Daniish canned milk
    for USD 15 mio, plus butter, cheese and other farm products. Kuwait has
    not purchased significantly more.
 
    British ministry of defense has chartered the DFDS container ferry to
    move the 7th armoured brigade from Bremerhaven, Germany to Saudi
    Arabia. It will take 3 months to move the Challenger tanks to the Gulf.
    The 6000 soldiers of the brigade will travel with their equipment on
    the ship, which will remain under Danish flag for the mission.
 
    ---
 
    -- 
    / Lars Poulsen, SMTS Software Engineer
      CMC Rockwell  [email protected]
412.14Sweden's foriegn minister calls Iraqi leader "madman"NEILS::SAVAGEThu Nov 01 1990 08:3626
    From: [email protected] (Bertil Jonell)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Middle East (Yaaaa!!! Run Away!!) with a nordic connection!
	(Really!?)
    Date: 30 Oct 90 08:44:29 GMT
    Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg, Sweden.
 
    According to this mornings papers, the spokesperson of the Iraqui
    parliament said that the Swedes in the hostage are unlikely to be
    released, because of a  statement of the Swedish foreign minister, Sten
    Andersson in which he among other things said: "Madmen like Saddam
    might get dangerous if cornered." It seems that Saddam Hussein didn't
    like to be described as a madman.
 
    A foreign minister is usually supposed to behave with slightly more
    sense of diplomacy, but Sten Andersson have done things like this
    before. On one occation when commenting the Baltic movement for
    independence, he emphazised the undemocratic tendencies in the three
    countries before WWII.
 
    "Talking softly and carry a big stick" is an expression,  "Talking big
    and carry a soft stick" seems like to be the case here :-(
 
    -bertil-
    --
    "Words on the net aren't usually worth the paper they are written on."
412.15Madman on looseEEMELI::HAUTALAMon Nov 05 1990 11:164
    
    But he spoke the truth.
    
    Hannu H.
412.16MOVIES::JJOHNSONWeak typing is for strong stomachsMon Nov 05 1990 14:225
    re .15:
    
    There's no greater sin in diplomacy.
    
    Jim.
412.17Danes told to leave Middle EastTLE::SAVAGETue Jan 08 1991 11:2221
    From: [email protected]
    Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.europe,
	clari.news.fighting,clari.news.hot.iraq
    Subject: Danes urged to leave 13 Middle Eastern countries
    Date: 2 Jan 91 17:48:19 GMT
 
 
    	COPENHAGEN, Denmark (UPI) -- Denmark told its citizens Wednesday to
    avoid traveling to several Near and Middle East countries, and advised
    those already in the area to leave before the Jan. 15 United Nations
    deadline for Iraq to leave Kuwait.	A Foreign Ministry communique said
    the nations countries involved are Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates,
    Israel, Iran, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria,
    Sudan, eastern Turkey and Yemen.

    	"Danes, and particularly family members and non-vital personnel,
    are urged to consider leaving (these) countries before Jan. 15, 1991,
    and not to return until the situation in the area has been clarified,"
    the Foreign Ministry statement said.  "The decision is not an
    expression of anticipation of war in the gulf after Jan. 15, but of
    uncertainty regarding developments in the area," the statement said.
412.18Ship movementsTLE::SAVAGEMon Jan 21 1991 11:0068
    From: [email protected] (Hjerre Faurschou Hviid)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: <None>
    Date: 18 Jan 91 10:40:24 GMT
    Sender: [email protected] (UseNet News)
    Organization: CS and Math, University of Aalborg, Denmark
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Frans
    Lichtenberg) writes:

>Subject:Denmark/Norway in war?
>Organization: Sheridan College, Oakville, Ont. CANADA
>References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
>Summary:war 
>Date: Thu, 17 Jan 1991 13:54:32 GMT
>
>
>Can anyone tell me if the Danish and/or Norwiegen navy located in the 
>gulf is now playing a offencive role or not.
>
>               Frans Lichtenberg.......
 
    Well, current order from the prime minister seems to be: stay the h*ll
    out of any combat !!!, though the ship is armoured to the teeth, and
    can defend itself if cornered ! Sole purpose of Olfert Fischer
    ("Golfert" amoung friends) is to make sure that no bad guys carry
    supplies to SoDamn Husseins bad guys. Current position is far from the
    "hot spot" (in the Arab Emirates, if I remember correctly).
 
 
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
H. F. Hviid, Dat6     | - Marvin, there's a whole new life ahead of you !
[email protected]     | - Oh no, not another one !!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: [email protected] (Bj|rn Lisper)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Swedish ship in Persian Gulf???
    Date: 21 Jan 91 09:34:11 GMT
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
    (Kurt Swanson) writes:

 )	On CNN today I saw a British newsreel(tape) of tanker ships trans-
 )porting army trucks, supplies, etc. One ship interested me since it had
 )designs reminiscient of a Cruise ship. Then I noticed it had "Malm�" 
 )painted on it. Could a Swedish cruise ship actually be
 )transporting the united states' implements of war? Is this actually in the
 )realm of possibilities?
 
    Two Swedish cargo ships have been unloading in the Persian Gulf and are
    now heading out of the area. At least one was chartered by the U.S. to
    carry material to the allied troops (I don't think any weapons,
    though).
 
    Sweden is not strictly neutral in this conflict. It supports the U.N.
    resolution against the Iraqi invasion. So there is nothing that
    prevents any Swedish shipper to carry material for the allied forces.
    Furthermore, upon request from Great Britain, Sweden will set up a
    military hospital for wounded prisoners of war captured by the allies
    (apparently it is customary that one arranges for some country not
    directly involved in the fights to do this).  It is highly unlikely
    that Sweden will send any armed forces, though.
 
    Bj"orn Lisper
412.19More on Swedish shippingTLE::SAVAGETue Jan 22 1991 13:1923
    From: [email protected] (Mats Winberg)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Swedish ship in Persian Gulf???
    Date: 21 Jan 91 09:40:32 GMT
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: Ericsson
 
 
    To the best of my knowledge 3 swedish ships are delivering material for
    the allied war effort. 2 has already unloaded and are on their way out 
    of the gulf. 1 is on its way to a Saudi port, which one is not
    disclosed. The ships cargo is mainly trucks, armoured vehicles and
    jeeps. The ships have been chartered by the U.S or the U.K governments.
 
    One of the ships was in fact a ferry on the route Malm� - Travemunde.
 
    Swedish ships were also used during the Falklands war.
 
 
    *************************
    Mats Winberg
    [email protected]
    *************************
412.20What violence can create is doubtfulTLE::SAVAGETue Jan 22 1991 13:2038
     From: [email protected] (Mats Winberg)
     Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
     Subject: A Swedish Poem
     Date: 21 Jan 91 11:11:49 GMT
     Sender: [email protected]
     Organization: Ericsson
 
    When I heard that 'operation desert shield' now had become 'operation
    desert storm' I immediately remembered a swedish poem by the poet
    Esaias Tegner (1782-1846). He wrote the poem when Napoleon was at his 
    height of power (1810), but in my opinion this poem is directed against
    dictators and assailants of all times. It's called 'Det Eviga' ('The
    Eternal') and it's first verse goes as follows:
 
	Vael formar den starke med svaerdet sin vaerld,
	vael flyga som oernar hans rykten
 	men naagon gaang brytes det vandrande svaerd
	och oernarna faellas i flykten.
	Vad vaaldet maa skapa aer vanskligt och kort
	det doer som en stromvind i oeknen bort.
 
 
    My translation is as follows:
 
	
	The strong shapes his world with the sword
	as eagles his praise is flown
	but sometimes the wandering sword is broken
	and eagles fall from the sky
	What violence can create is doubtful and short
	it dies away like a wind in a desert storm.
 
 
 
     *********************
     Mats Winberg
     [email protected]
     *********************
412.21More on Denmark's role in the GulfTLE::SAVAGEThu Jan 24 1991 12:2960
    From: [email protected] (Niels Christian Juul)
    Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm,soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: War briefs, danish troops to the war?
    Date: 24 Jan 91 09:05:03 GMT
    Sender: [email protected] (Netnews System)
    Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen
 
 
    The CNN message about Denmark going to take an active part in the Golf
    war has been mis-interpreted.
                                                                        
    Our minister of foreign affairs Uffe Elleman Jensen made his statement
    as a privat person (and chairman of his political party, the liberals).
    The danish government faces a majority against more military
    involvments in the golf in the danish parliament (FOLKETINGET).
 
	There won't be any military support from Denmark,
	even if Turkey is attacked the NATO support from Denmark
	is a point of discussion.
 
    So Saddam does not need to 'be awar of the wild vikings'.
 
    [email protected] (Frank L Ross) writes:

>>To get back to the Gulf war, I think the standing Danish army is about
>>70.000, but I am not sure whether that includes the navy and air force.
>>In any case, it would make little difference in the Gulf.  My personal
>The figure, to my knowledge, is 20,000 and a home guard of 60,000. Furthermore,
>what happened to the frigate (corvette?) that the Danes sent to the gulf. It is
>the sister ship of Peder Skram; thus, I heard the joke that the Danes had sent
>half their Navy to the Gulf. Nevertheless, Uffe said that it would be withdrawn
>on the outbreak of war. A rather iritating policy. After all, the Danish Navy
>has had live fire excercises against summer houses more than a half decade ago.
>Frank
>>Rene' Seindal ([email protected])
 
    The corvette(?) Olfert Fisher is still operating in the persian golf.
    It works far outside the current battle area. It's duty is now as
    before to inforce the UN sanctions: No trading with Iraq.
 
    Denmark (and Red Cross) is preparing to send doctors and nurses as aid
    to the wounded civilians and prisoners of war on both sides.
    Furthermore I suppect that Denmark will be sending UN-troops (danish
    soldiers under UN command) as controllers or peace-keeping forces when
    the battle is over. Such things can only be done by contries that has
    not taken part in the battle.
 
    Niels Chr.

    Personnaly is dislike this war as much as dislike Saddam Hussein. I
    concider the military sanction (dessert storm) a mistake from the
    start. Any permanent solution to the problems of drawing borders in the
    area including Israel, Palaestine and the Sheik's and Saddam's area
    must be based on peace and success for the leaders who create them. 
 
-- 
|^Niels^Christian^Juul^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|^Email^:^^[email protected]^^^^^^^^^|
| DIKU (aka Dept.Comp.Sci. Univ.Copenhagen) | Phone : +45 31 39 64 66 ext.405 |
| Universitetsparken 1 * DK 2100 Copenhagen | Direct: +45 31 39 33 11 --  405 |
|_DENMARK___________________________________|_Fax___:_+45_31_39_02_21_________|
412.22Swedes to equip hospitalTLE::SAVAGEWed Feb 27 1991 10:2019
    From: [email protected]
    Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.europe,
	clari.news.fighting,clari.tw.health,clari.news.hot.iraq
    Subject: Swedes send equipment to Red Cross hospital inside Iran
    Date: 25 Feb 91 18:05:08 GMT
 
 
	STOCKHOLM, Sweden (UPI) -- Sweden said Monday it will send equipment
 and medical personnel to a Red Cross hospital in Iran near the Iraqi
 border in order to treat gulf war casualties.
	"We will improve the capabilities of a regular hospital 120
 kilometers (75 miles) from the Iraqi town of Basra," Swedish Chief
 Medical Officer Dr. Hans Samnegard said Monday.
 	The first contingent of Swedes was to leave for Iran Tuesday and a
 total of 60 Swedes were ready to staff the hospital, Samnegard said.
	"We will have enough equipment to take care of 100 patients for one
 month," he added.
	"We envisage injured people trying to cross the border into Iran
 where we can help them," Samnegard said.
412.23Danish foriegn minister appeals on behalf of KurdsTLE::SAVAGEMon Apr 08 1991 16:0364
    From: [email protected] (JULIAN M. ISHERWOOD)
    Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.fighting,
	clari.news.hot.iraq,clari.news.issues.civil_rights,clari.news.europe
    Subject: Denmark proposes military action to stop Iraqi attacks on Kurds
    Date: 8 Apr 91 11:47:47 GMT
 
 
	COPENHAGEN, Denmark (UPI) -- Denmark Monday urged the European
Community to press the United Nations to allow military action against
Iraq if it does not stop attacking its Kurdish population, irrespective
of whether such action could re-ignite the Gulf War.
	Danish Foreign Minister Uffe Ellemann-Jensen, on his way to the
Luxemburg EC summit, told United Press International that Iraqi actions
against hundreds of thousands of fleeing Kurds in the north of Iraq was
"tantamount to genocide" and had to be urgently addressed by the world
community.
	"We will urge the other European Community countries to put pressure
on the United Nations so that the Security Council gives the necessary
background for military intervention in order to stop the slaughter of
the Kurds," Ellemann-Jensen said.
	European Community leaders, stung by criticism of the EC's role
during the gulf crisis, were to meet Monday at a special summit to
discuss the plight of Kurdish refugees in Iraq and other gulf-related
issues.
	The summit was called at France's urging to consider lessons to be
drawn from the crisis, but the flight of Kurds from northern Iraq has
emerged as the centerpiece of the one-day summit.
	Several EC countries, including Britain and Germany, have already
sent aid to the Kurds, but many EC leaders seek a common response from
the 12-nation Community.
	Ellemann-Jensen said the community should urge the U.N. Security
Council to bring about quick action by passing strict Security Council
resolutions to give the United Nations the possibility of military
action.
	"I have seen many say that this is not possible since this is a
question of the internal affairs of a country," Ellemann-Jensen added,
but said this was not the issue in the case of the Kurds.
	"If you look at the transgressions now taking place, they are a
threat to the stability of an entire region, and in this case the United
Nations has every right to step in," Ellemann-Jensen said.
	"Hitherto the Soviet Union and China have been reluctant to pass
sufficiently strong resolutions, but it is now time to put pressure on
them," Ellemann-Jensen said.
	Asked if he did not fear such a move would cause a resumption of the
Gulf War, the foreign minister said that should not be taken into
account.
	"I feel that all those sorts of issues must be ignored in the face
of the fact that we cannot just stand by and watch an event that is
tantamount to genocide against the Kurds," Ellemann-Jensen said.
	More than 1.6 million Kurds are believed to have fled their homes in
northern Iraq to escape persecution by the Baghdad government since the
Persian Gulf War ended and civil unrest broke out in the war-ravaged
nation.
	"If a military solution is necessary, then that is what it will have
to be," he added.
	But Ellemann-Jensen said any such action would have to be firmly
anchored within the United Nations.
	"Otherwise) many of the principles that were the bearing element of
the Gulf War and should be the bearing element of the New World Order
will have been lost," Ellemann-Jensen said.
	The Danish foreign minister said he was "certain" the 12-member
European Community would pass a "massive, coordinated aid (for the
Kurds) in order to supplement international aid which many countries
have already started."
412.24Shoot-out at Iraqi embassy in StockholmTLE::SAVAGEThu Apr 11 1991 15:0841
    From: [email protected] (Lennart Brjeson @ KTH, Stockholm)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Political riot in Stockholm
    Date: 10 Apr 91 13:21:22 GMT
    Sender: [email protected]  (News Administrator)
    Organization: KTH, Royal Institute of Technology, School of Electrical
	Engineering
    
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Vicki L.
    Almstrum) writes:

 >I saw a brief report of an attack by Kurds on the Iraqi embassy in Stockholm,
 >evidently on Sunday night or sometime Monday.  
 >
 >Thinking back to the theories tying Kurds to the Palme assassination, I'm
 >imagining this attack has raised some new controversy and strong reactions.  
 >Any developments?  Do they know if there were shots fired from within 
 >the embassy?
 
    The foreign ministry has condemned both the kurdish attack (diplomats
    must be able to work in their embassy) and the iraqi gun fire from the
    embassy. 30 shots from an automatic rifle hit neighbouring buildings,
    no one was injured. Embassy personnel in Sweden must have licenses to
    legally carry weapons, just like any ordinary citizen. Licenses for
    automatic rifles are not issued, so the weapon is illegal. The foreign
    ministry has delivered a sharp protest to the embassy and demanded that
    the weapon is given to the police and that the name of the shooter is
    revealed. The ministry will announce on thursday whether any iraqi will
    be asked to leave the country or not.
 
    Some ten (?) kurds have been arrested and will be tried for attempted
    arson, among other accusations.
 
    !++
    ! Lennart Boerjeson, System Manager
    ! School of Electrical Engineering
    ! Royal Institute of Technology
    ! S-100 44 Stockholm, Sweden
    ! tel: int+46-8-7907814
    ! Internet: [email protected]
    !--