Conference turris::scandia

    Tor,
    
     Thankyou for the prompt response! Another question (or have I used up
    my quota?):
    
     Olav Trygvasson's famous boat was called Ormen Lange (Longe?) - 
    Long Serpent.
    Being ignorant of Norse (old and new) I am assuming that the Ormen is
    serpent or snake.  Longe is for long.
    
     Other names for boats had the suffix "suden" attached. For example
    Mariasuden (Mary) and Kristsuden. Does "suden" mean boat or ship?
    
     How would one say Long Ship?
    
    Thanks,
    
    	Gregg

    re .2
    
    The usual English translation of Olav Trygvasson's ship is "Long
    Serpent". "Orm" (indefinite form of Ormen) is the modern word for
    "snake" or "serpent"; "sj�orm" being Sea-serpent. The old norse
    term could refer to larger beasts; e.g. the Midgard-serpent(?) would
    be Midgardormen (this was the creature that surrounded the edge
    of the world). There was some overlap of meaning between "orm" and
    "drake" (dragon; also spelled "drage"), used to symbolize the ships
    themselves. These were sometimes refered to as "draker" (dragons);
    my impression from reading Snorri is that the "orm" was in this
    case an illusion to the dragon-symbol as well (though I may be wrong,
    it's a long time since I read that portion).
    
    "Langskip" is quite simply long-ship, and is the term used in the
    sagas as the generic for what we today call "viking-ship". Note,
    however, that here the implication is war-ship. There was another
    term for a ship used for trade (my mind is blank at the moment
    regarding the term); regrettably we have no archeological finds
    of this type, so we don't really know what they were like, but they
    obviously had some resemblance to the long-ship. From my recollection,
    when Snorri describes the Ormen Lange he refers to it as having
    such dimensions that it resembled a <blank---missing word for trading
    ship> almost more than a long-ship. As I recall, this had something
    to do with the deck construction.
    
    Your other word/suffix for ship seems more obscure; I don't recall
    it from sagas. Sounds to me like a local dialect term, but someone
    more knowledgeable might respond (I'll look it up when I'm at home
    if I remember).
    
    Oh---I just remember the other type ship: "Knarr". Stupid of me
    to forget, as this is also a term used for a still-popular classic
    sail boat (wooden type).
    
    Additional linguistic note. (You may know this already, but in case
    you don't):
    
    In Norwegian (also in Sw & Dsh) the definite article does not precedt
    the noun as a separate word (e.g., "the" or "le") but is appended
    to the base noun so that it becomes part of that word. If you are
    contemplating using a Norwegian word as a boat name, you can just
    as well remove this suffix to make it sound better. Example:
    
    "Ormen"=The Serpent; "Orm"=Serpent ("en orm"="a serpent")
    
    The definite article suffixes are -en (masc.), -et (neuter) and
    -a (fem.). When you see words with these endings, they can usually
    be removed, leaving the base noun (though don't do this automatically
    with the feminine form; it doesn't always work, and it could be
    a word whose stem has an -a, like "pizza").
    
    Mauritz
    

    Along the same line...
    
    What would be the best translation for the name of a boat... "Sea
    Witch" in Norse.  (old or new)  or both versions.
    
    Takk
    
    Dave

    "Sea Witch" would literally translate as "sj�-heks" or "sj�heks",
    though the term is somewhat meaningless in Norwegian (hence my
    uncertainty as to use of the hyphen).
    
    Mauritz
    

As Mauritz says : Sj�heks, or if you prefer - "Havheks" - if the word "sea"
is interpreted more like "ocean".

The Norwegian language is quite simple - if you were born to it.....

	Tor

    Tor and Mauritz,
    
     I am extremely grateful for the time and effort you have put into my
    education. I confess to be almost totally ignorant about these things. 
     
     The "suden" information came from a book on Viking Ships. I forget the
    author's name, but he hails from Norway. I'll enter it Monday.
    
    
    Gregg

I cannot recall having heard the suffix "suden" used anywhere.
It does however "taste" Swedish. Maybe some representative of
"S�ta bror" can help you (that is our friendly neighbors to the east)...

	Tor

    Well, I have my info from ony one source:
    
    "The Viking Ships, their Ancestry and Evolution." by A.W. Brogger and
    Haakon Shetelig Dreyer Publishers, Oslo 2, Norway. Copyright 1971.
    
     On page 169 they say:
    
    "The many terms for shiops used by the sagas and the skalds - snekke,
    skute, drake, skeid, busse, *SUD*, brand, and many more - do not really
    serve to classify them bys size and equipment."
    
     I added the *'s to SUD. In the book, they mention various famous
    ships;
    
    Olav the Saint's VISUNDEN (the Ox)
    King Sverre's Mariasuden (the Ship of Mary)
    Hakon Hakonsson's Olavssuden and Kristsuden (the Olav and the Christ)
    
    etc. 
    
    Perhaps the "en" suffix is confusing - perhaps it can be dropped like
    the en in Ormen?
    
    Gregg

    Thanks for the sea witch translations.
    
    Regards,
    
    Dave