| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 346.1 | Danish system explained | TLE::SAVAGE | Neil, @Spit Brook | Fri Aug 11 1989 11:21 | 52 |
| Group soc.culture.nordic
article 884
From: [email protected] (Lars J Poulsen)
----------
The Scandinavian High School is called the "Gymnasium" and is not very
like an American High School. My experience has all been with the
Danish system, though I'd expect the other countries to be similar.
The gymnasium is strictly college-prep; no vocational classes.
There is no free mix-and-match system, but rather a choice between a
small number of pre-selected curricula:
Science tracks:
- Math/Physics.
- Math/Bioscience
- Social sciences
Language tracks:
- Modern languages
- Classical languages
- Music
The school does not sponsor "clubs".
And even the Math/Physics tarck requires a full program of two foreign
languages (English OR German; plus French OR Russian), history,
litterature, comparative religion, geography, biology, phys ed, music
appreciation, etc in addition to the science program that is the
backbone of the curriculum. You cannot pass if you have a failing grade
in more than one subject.
The grading system in Denmark is somewhat different from the Swedish
system that has been mentioned here before. All grades are given on the
following scale which is normalized for an "8" average:
00, 03, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13
1% 1% 1%
Note that 5 is a failing grade, and 11 is a perfect score. 13 is for
rewarding special creativity. To get a 13, the student must display an
understanding of the subject BEYOND what has been taught. The extreme
grades may be used only in 1% of cases. To pass you must have an
average above 5.5 AND the sum of the two lowest grades plus the average
of the rest must be at least 13.
-------
/ Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> (800) 222-7308 or (805) 963-9431 ext 358
ACC Customer Service Affiliation stated for identification only
|
| 346.2 | Comparing Icelandic and US school systems | MLTVAX::SAVAGE | Neil @ Spit Brook | Fri Jan 12 1990 15:06 | 35 |
| From: [email protected] (Magnus M Halldorsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Schools
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Date: 10 Jan 90 22:52:18 GMT
On the comparison of Nordic and US school systems:
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jarl Sandberg) writes:
> Grundskola (compulsory): 9 years, start at the age of 7 end at 16.
Elementary school plus junior high school is also 9 years, but I believe kids
start one year earlier, when 6 years old.
> Gymnasie (optional, but almost everyone study here):
> You choose a line of education for 2 to 4 years. (normally from
> the ages 16 to 20)
> H�gskola, Universitet : University level
High school is three years, so high school graduates are two years
younger than gymnasium graduates. The gymnasie (known as "menntaskoli"
in Icelandic) is often referred to as junior college over here (that's
what the english transcript of my diploma states...), which is
true in the extent that the graduates of both schools are in the same
age group.
Gymnasie diploma carries some extra credit into US colleges. For
instance, I got what amounted to 1.5 years of credit which is probably
relatively reasonable. Notice that since a B.S. degree in the nordic
takes at least three years of study, compared to four years after a
high school, college graduates in the nordic have one more year of
education behind them.
Magnus
|
| 346.3 | Norwegian system | TLE::SAVAGE | | Tue Jul 23 1991 09:45 | 66 |
| From: [email protected] (Hallvard Paulsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: CS Graduate Programs in all of Norden
Date: 23 Jul 91 08:13:15 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: University of Trondheim, Norway
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Kurt Swanson) writes:
|> I, too, am interested in studying abroad. I am looking for a
|> quality school that offers Doctorates (or their equivalents) in
|> Computer Science. How difficult is it to become such a student in any
|> of the Nordic countries? (i.e. visas, application, tuition costs for
|> foreigners)...
The only thing I can say for certain is no tuition cost for anybody!
In Trondheim (the biggest engineering school in scandinavia) you'll
have to have the g.p.a of 2.5 or better (1.0 is maximum 4.0 is
fail limit). But the exam system here is very different from
American Universitys (usually 4-7 hours written exams) so an A (4.0)
from an American university is not quite the same as an 1.0.
(BTW if you get a g.p.a of 1.5 or better and a 1.0 on your final
paper (diploma) they'll tell the king about you. This happens to
about 10-15 students out of 1000-1200 graduates)
I think there is no problem getting a visa if you are accepted to
a school, but you might have to document that you are able
to pay your expenses while staying here. A Ph.D is supposed to
take you about 3 years, but the average is 4.5 years. (Mostly
because people who go for a Ph.D have to do Research assistant
work as well)
BTW. The degree that people usually have before starting a Ph.D is
"sivilingenioer", and is a bit different from a MSc.
It is a 4.5 year study, and you end it by writing a Theses. But
to be admitted in you have to have taken Math, Physics and Chemistry
during "Highschool". There are only two levels "Sivil ingenioer"
and "Doktor ingenioer". But there are also systems more close
to the anglo-american if you want don't want to go to a pure
engineering school.
(I think the Norwegian system is very similar to the Swedish and
Danish.)
|> Does being a U.S. citizen help/hinder? Does being of Swedish descent
|> help/hinder? I have heard that some technical schools have English
|> speaking divisions, though I would have no problems learning the
|> language needed. I know there has to be at least one very good school
|> in Denmark, as I have studied under Per Brinch-Hansen...
In Norway it doesn't make a differense what country you are from.
(Unless you are a poor refugee from some 3rd world countries, That
helps a lot)
\\___//
| | Hallvard Paulsen, MSc (i.e Hallvard the horrible)
|_____| Research Engineer / Grad. Stud
|| o || Division of Machinery
|| \\|| NORWEGIAN MARINE TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH INSTITUTE
\\ TEL : +47 (07)595522
o FAX : +47 (07)595983
// EMAIL : [email protected]
O
|
| 346.5 | College examinations (tests) | TLE::SAVAGE | | Mon Jan 27 1992 11:51 | 181 |
| From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Date: 25 Jan 92 00:02:38 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: Research School of Physical Sciences, ANU
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (David
Partain) writes:
[...]
> That which started me thinking about the issue is how exam grades are
> posted here.
>
> My experience with university, particularly in Tennessee, was that the
> posting of grades, whether for a particular exam or for a class, was
> frowned upon. I had professors who refused to post grades in any way.
> Others agreed to do so only if the students gave them a number to use
> which had no relation to their social security number (or anything
> public), and others would post it using the last four digits of the
> SS#. Never have I ever seen names used--in the U.S., France, or
> Germany. I believe, but don't know, that there was even some
> legislation in the U.S. providing for privacy in such matters.
I've seen grade postings in Sweden varying from a list of every
participant in an exam (name & personnummer) listing their result on
each and every exam question + sum and grade (including "underk�nd" -
failed) to an "exam number" + grade and covering most variants
in-between.
Where I got my degree, the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm,
they always posted names. The students of my school (chem eng)
discussed on several occasions if we should demand that those who
failed shouldn't be included on the list of grades (this varies from
department to department) or if we perhaps should demand "exam
numbers". Only very few ever supported this. Most people said that it's
no big deal to fail an exam (since you can try again indefinitely, the
only punishment being that you can't get your degree before you've
passed your exam, and often that you can't take an advanced course in
the same subject before you've passed the basic course). To those who
said it was embarrasing to be the person who failed almost every exam,
most people said "well, then you probably should study more - almost
anyone can pass their exams if they really want to, and if you think
you'll fail you don't have to try the exam this time".
At the university of Stockholm I know that they often use "exam
numbers" instead, or personnummer *only*. Since people usually don't
memorise other peoples personnummer, you don't know who failed and who
didn't when you see a posting.
The use of a number usually has two uses. Both to make the student
anonymous to his/her fellow students, and to make the student anonymous
to the teacher who corrects the exams. This aspect is usually stressed
in subjects where the facts are less "hard" than in
science/engineering, e.g. political science or philosophy. (Btw, if
you've been failed two times in the same exam by the same examiner, you
have the right to demand another examiner, under Swedish university
regulations. I've never heard of this actually being used, but if
you're a libertarian and your marxist philosophy professor constantly
fails you, it could perhaps come in handy.)
The only person at Roy Inst Tech I've heard suggesting that teachers
shouldn't know whose exam they're correcting was a lecturer from
Britain. She was quite amazed that noone ever demanded to be anonymous.
> Thus, you can imagine my surprise when Karin came home and started
> talking about how people did on the exams, and it turned out that
> everything had been posted. Names and grades. Well, they didn't post
> anything if the person failed... "How thoughtful," was my reaction.
> [...] Furthermore, my
> sources say that this information is public record--that I can request
> to know how someone did, and I have a right to know (this information
> may be incorrect).
No, you're quite correct. If you pay for the administrative work, you
can get a print-out of course/exam results at a Swedish university.
This is becuase university grades fall under the category "public
document".
All Swedish universities are state-run with the exception of the
Stockholm School of Economics, "Handelsh�gskolan i Stockholm", and are
consequently part of the public sector. Assigning grades to a student
is a decision, which is documented by the authority. When something is
documented (or recieved) by an authority, it automatically becomes
public (unless it's made secret, classified, of course). This means
that a future employer can check that you haven't changed your grades
on your degree diploma.
Another thing which is public is the exams themselves, as soon as they
have been given. (They are probably considered draft versions until
they've actually been given, and draft versions of a document are not
public.) This means that a student can demand to see the exams that
have been given for the last x years, where x equals the oldest exam
the university still keep a copy of (well, I found some exams from 1941
or so in a dusty old binder). A colleague of mine wanted to hide an
exam he had written the most questions for, and that only three persons
took (all failed...), for future "recycling". We had to explain to him
that any student could demand to see it, and if he then refused he
and/or the head of the department would end up in court... (We partly
said this because we thought it was a lousy exam...)
> So this got me thinking: In my opinion, largely as a result of my
> American background, this information is none of anyone's business but
> my own.
What about your employee? Can't they check with University of xxx that
you actually have an exam from them, and that you got these grades?
> If they want to know, they can ask me. And yet, when Karin
> asked a group of students (representatives of the classes) about it, no
> one seemed to think it was a big deal. Their reaction was, "What's all
> the fuss?" "That way I won't ask embarrassing questions." "Why should
> I care if they see my grade?" You get the idea.
Yep, as I wrote above, this is how just about everyone feels when
they've been university students for two weeks. Some people, without a
big brother and/or sister in university, who haven't heard of this
interesting practice when they come from high school to university, get
slightly shocked when they first see the large boards with exam results
("fail" - "fail" - "fail" - ...). But they usually recover rather
quickly.
> So, what's the deal here? I think there are at least two overriding
> reasons. First of all, grades are not that important at the university
> here. The main thing is to pass, whether with a 3, 4, or 5 (best).
I think your Karin studies engineering. fail-3-4-5 is the grade system
used by faculties of technology. (In high school and below you get
grades 1-2-3-4-5, where 5 is the highest grade, "fail" corresponds to 1
or 2) The most common system in "ordinary universities" (in the good
old days - long before the University of Link�ping existed :-) -
engineering could only be studied in Stockholm, Roy Inst Tech, and
Gothenburg, Chalmers, at two very prestigious universities offering
*only* engineering) is "underk�nd", U (fail) - "godk�nd", G (pass) -
"v�l godk�nd", V or VG (pass with distinction). Sometimes only U - G
is used. A think the faculties of law in Sweden rather recently
re-introduced an older systems with >2 pass grades, 'cause their
students all wanted to get VG, and some of them handed in "blank" if
they thought that their answers would only give them a G. (Stuuuuuupid
law students!)
> Secondly, most
> students fail an exam at one point or another in their university
> career. It doesn't seem to be uncommon for people to take an exam
> twice or even thrice before passing. So, there's no great shame in
> failing. "Heck, I'll just pass next time."
To fail an exam very many times is actually considered "cool" by those
who spend a few orders of magnitue more time partying than studying.
When you try to take an exam for the 10th time, you have to dress up in
a tuxedo. Actually, chem eng students at my university had yellow as
their colour, so you should dress in a *yellow* tux, and have a burning
candle on your table throughout the exam. Much to my regret, I've never
seen anyone dressed up like this. I guess they make sure to pass the
exam the 9th time to avoid the expense of a yellow tux... Hmmm...
perhaps I can still get to see something like this, becuase the exams
my department gives (physical chemistry) are considered rather hard,
and sometimes < 50% passes.
The worst example I've heard was a mechanics exam for civil engineers.
Over 100 students took the exam. First the mech department posted
"preliminary result - passed:" with only three names. Since it said
"preliminary", the civ.eng. students thought they would lower the pass
limit and/or correct "nicer". They were wrong. When the definite result
was posted, only two persons had passed... The beer consumption
probably peaked that day...
Well, how long does it take to "save up" to your 10th exam? At Roy Inst
Tech almost every exam is given three times per year. First at the end
of the course (the courses are spread over the year), then a second
time usually about two months later, and then *all* exams are given
during the two weeks just before the lectures begin in September after
the summer vacation. If you party when other students study, and still
want your degree in reasonable time, then say goodbye to your summer
vacation...
Tomas
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! Tomas Eriksson Exp. Surface Physics Group, Dept. of Applied Maths, !
! Research School of Physical Sciences & Engineering, !
! [email protected] Australian National University, Canberra !
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|
| 346.4 | Stockholm School of Economics | TLE::SAVAGE | | Tue Jun 02 1992 16:03 | 73 |
| From: [email protected] (Tomas Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: infos
Date: 2 Jun 92 14:10:38 GMT
Sender: [email protected] (Usenet)
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
[email protected] inquires:
>Dear Friends,
>I would like to attend a master's degree program in finance at the Stockolm sch
>ool of Economics. I am interested in all the scholarship possibilities offered
>to foreign students. In Italy is almost impossible to get a scholarship if you
>are not in a political party=in the mafia. Please post the help you can give me
>at 9152812 at awiwuw11. (P.S. I would like to know more about school)
> Thank u and bye
> Francesco
I don't know very much about the programs "Handelsh�gskolan i
Stockholm" (the Swedish name for the Stockholm School of Economics)
offers especially for foreigners (their standard undergraduate course
program is given in Swedish), but since "Handels" (as we usually call
it... when we don't say nastier things, such as the hard-to-translate
"skjulet bakom pressbyr�n p� Sveav�gen"; but then, my university and
"Handels" have always been rivals, since the graduates of our two
[schools] have dominated among Sweden's industrial leadership since
slightly after the dawn of time...) is a private [business school],
actually the only private [business school] in Sweden, and a rather
greedy one, I would guess: - if you have to pay the full tuition, this
will be muuuuuuch - they don't really offer that many scholarships for
shorter studies for foreigners, if any at all; possibly if you intend
to earn a doctorate (ekonomie doktor, "Doctor of Economics")
"Handels" is situated in a very central location in Stockholm. It is
... small ..., they have only one undergraduate program, Business
Administration/Economics, and has a total of 1,000 students or slightly
more. "Handels" is highly prestigious in Sweden, and it's program is
considered much better and harder than the corresponding one offered by
the ordinary state-run Swedish universities and the local colleges.
They seem to have rather much research, and they also seem to enjoy a
good international reputation for their research. At least one of
their old professors, Bertil Olin, has been awarded the "Nobel prize"
in economics. Their president, Staffan Burenstam-Linder, is a former
minister of trade (conservative party), who is professor of economics.
If you intend to attend "Handels" you should consider acquring a mobile
phone, a striped suit and an attitude :-) <*> (this is not standard
gear for Swedish university students).
If you want to contact them, their address is
Stockholm School of Economics
Box 6501
S-113 83 Stockholm
Sweden
fax: +46 - 8 - 31 81 86
<*> = I know a few students at and gradutes from "Handels" that do not
have these things, and that are very nice persons. However, they have
in common that they complain about the other students there, that have
the striped business suit, the power-tie, the mobile phone, the
attitude and the "wanna-be-exec" personality problem. :-)
"Prejudiced? Me? Of course I'm prejudiced... but I'm right!"
And, yes, I'm an engineering graduate, so I always slander business
administration-people when I get the chance. :-)
Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson [email protected]
Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
|
| 346.6 | Comparison with USA | TLE::SAVAGE | | Thu Jul 15 1993 14:26 | 109 |
| From: [email protected] (Raul Izahi Lopez Hernandez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Date: 11 Jul 1993 23:13:16 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
>These may be rumours only, but I heard that my old univ. in
>Norway spent $20.000 per student per year, while a typical
>American univ. spend no more than about half of that. This
>is in spite of a different teaching style (big lecturing halls,
>more students per class, fewer midterms/tests etc) in Norway.
Fewer classes as well, most of the time it is reading and reading in
Norway, it is common to have only two lectures a week for a full
courseload. There might also be a few workshops once or twice a week.
There is A LOT of emphasis on individual study.
I guess the professors are not paid any less for not teaching that many
lessons? Also the overhead costs for the University of Bergen must be
much less than most universities in the U.S since there are basically
no athletic facilities or big fancy laboratories. Maybe paying taxes on
the university buildings are higher than in the U.S.? Otherwise I don't
see how in Norway the university would spend more than the "typical"
university in the U.S., at least not 2:1.
The State pays for health insurance, there is some subsidies for
housing at the dorms (apartments) but books are quite expensive. Many
students I know have to work part-time to pay for their studies and get
huge loans to live an OK lifestyle if they don't live with their
parents.
--
-----------------> Solely responsible for my writings <----------------------
Raul Izahi Lopez Hernandez | Jeg liker Norge! Har du vaert i Norge?
[email protected] | GUADALAJARA - PALO ALTO - BERGEN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: [email protected] (raymond thomas pierrehumbert)
Subject: Re: Shooting in San Francisco, CA, U.S.A.
Sender: [email protected] (News System)
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 15:34:32 GMT
I can't comment about the cost of university education in Norway from
hard figures, but even the $20K figure seems awfully low -- even the
City of Stockholm was spending $11K per year a couple years ago for
kids in DAGIS, and things are generally more expensive in Norway.
The $10K "typical" figure for US universities is rather dubious. The
rule of thumb is that tuition generally covers only a third of the
costs of educating students. It is hard to find any private university
with under $10K per year tuition, which puts the typical figure at more
like $30K cost. State universities have lower tuitions sometimes, but
are more heavily subsidized by the government; still, out of state
tuition for such places is rarely as low as $3K per year, or even $6K.
It's hard to divvy up cost of education at a research university like
my place, but the 1/3 rule here is if anything an underestimate. With
present tuition, we're probably spending about $75K per year on each
student we admit (of which about $24K comes from tuition, though the
university pays some of that too, via loans and financial aid).
------
Points of comparison: The City of Evanston (good school system, just
N. of Chicago) spends $11K per year per student for it's high school (
= Gymnasium, roughly). Figures are similar for the elementary schools.
The main reasons private schools do better with less money are:
(1) Less bureaucracy and government regulation,
(2) They don't have to take all comers, but can
choose only motivated students
(3) (related to 2) Strong parental involvement, both
with the school and at home.
In some cases, approaches used in private schools can suggest the way
to more efficient education, as in the Montessori approach. I don't
think any example from private schools is going to show how to solve
the problems with American education, though, which has more to do with
problems at home that are inaccessible to schools. This does not refer
only to poor children, but middle and upper class kids as well, who
spend too much time watching the mind-numbing American television, and
whose parents are prisoners of the American corporate life which
leaves them inadequate time and energy to attend to family
responsibilities.
--------------------------------
An interesting point for discussion, though: My experience with the
Swedish schools below university -- both from talking to colleagues,
from looking around when I was thinking seriously of settling there,
and from our swedish Au Pairs -- is that the Swedish schools are really
awful. They are about the only first world schools I've heard of that
are as bad as U.S. schools. The difference is that in the U.S. you
have choices (private schools, and some good school districts) whereas
the Swedish schools are uniformly mediocre. Sweden doesn't have the
excuses for bad schools that the U.S. has, so I find this rather
puzzling. Another bit of supporting evidence for my impression is that
a recent survey of scientific literacy put Swedish students as the only
ones in the first world who were below the U.S. in basic scientific
knowledge.
The above is more of an impression; I hope I'm not sounding like I know
more than I really do. I'm interested in hearing alternate viewpoints.
Also, I wish to emphasize again that the above remarks do not apply to
dagis (which is world-class) and the universities (e.g. KTH and
Stockholms Universitet, which I have immediate familiarity with).
|
| 346.7 | Support for Swedes to study in the USA | TLE::SAVAGE | | Wed Jul 28 1993 09:50 | 49 |
| Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: [email protected] (Krister Lagerstrom)
Subject: Re: Studying in the States
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 18:37:12 GMT
I'm going to San Diego in two weeks to study English for a semester or
two, and all of it is financed by student loans and grants. The
criteria for receiving loans for studying in the US is that the school
is approved by CSN (Centrala Studiest�dsn�mnden, National board of
student aid), and that the education is useful in Sweden (most are, but
not legal studies for example).
It is possible to get student loans for 12 semesters, and you have to
pass all exams one semester to get loans the next one.
For studies in the US this year, you can get max 50000 SEK (1USD ~
8SEK) for tuition, ~57000 for living expenses, ~20000 for travels and
2400 for a health insurance with unlimited coverage in the Swedish
company Skandia. Most of this is loans, and a small part is grants.
The loans have to be repaid at 4% of your gross income starting the
year after you stop studying. The loans will be written off at age 65
if there's any left.
There are universities that have study-abroad programs, but it is
generally difficult to get admitted to one of these, the competition is
tough. It is easier to apply directly to the university in the US. The
drawback is that you have to pay the tuition yourself.
It is possible to get scholarships, but the amount you get will be
taken off your loans, so basically you'll have to get more in
scholarships than in loans before it really matters. You can also
finance parts of the studies by working, but if you earn more than
something like 25000 per semester, the amount you can loan starts
getting smaller.
If your girlfriend wants to apply to a US school, CSN can give her a
financial guarantee, which most schools require. After she gets
admitted, she'll get an I-20 from the school, which she'll have to take
to the embassy to get a F1 visa.
/ Krister
---
Krister Lagerstrom (Undergrad. CEng student) Email: [email protected]
Uppstigen 126-81 [email protected]
412 80 Gothenburg
SWEDEN Phone: +46 31 778 43 61
|
| 346.8 | Norwegian unversity exams, Re: .5 | TLE::SAVAGE | | Wed Oct 06 1993 14:24 | 20 |
| Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: [email protected] (Tor Slettnes)
Subject: Re: Telling Nordics apart
Organization: A very good idea
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 12:13:24 GMT
What I so *loooove* about the Norwegian university system: All you need
to do is to register, turn in a few mandatory (pass/fail) exercises,
then you'll be able to take the exam, on which your entire semester
grade is based. You can keep taking the same class over and over again,
the best grade (if any) counts. Failure to take the exam will not count
against you; as it won't be recorded on the transcript. In fact, no
class w/failing grade will be recorded.
At UiT, you used to be able to take the exams as any times as you
wanted, but now I think they changed it to max 3 times, like the other
Univs.
-tor
|
| 346.9 | Swedish school hierarchy | TLE::SAVAGE | | Mon Dec 06 1993 12:21 | 31 |
| Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: [email protected] (H. Peter Anvin N9ITP)
Subject: Re: Question about Swedish highschools!
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: Hierarchial directory structure
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 21:15:16 GMT
Swedish English (American)
------- ------------------
Universitet University
H�gskola College
Gymnasium High School
H�gstadium Junior High (School)
Mellanstadium Middle School
L�gstadium Elementary School
F�rskola Kindergarten
Daghem Preschool
Note that Americans often say they "go to college" even if they are
going to a university; it means they are getting college-level
education, which is before your Batchelor's (kandidat) degree.
/hpa
--
INTERNET: [email protected] FINGER/TALK: [email protected]
IBM MAIL: I0050052 at IBMMAIL NeXTMAIL: [email protected]
FIDONET: 1:115/511 or 1:115/989.4 HAM RADIO: N9ITP or SM4TKN
Linux: It is not too late to turn back from the Gates of hell
|
| 346.10 | Not like the 'old days' in Sweden | TLE::SAVAGE | | Wed Jun 22 1994 17:13 | 39 |
| From: Torkel Franzen <[email protected]>
To: International Swedish Interest discussion list
<[email protected]>
>What does happen at high school graduation ceremonies?
In Sweden nothing much happens except that the principal makes a speech
and the students get drunk at a series of parties. The "student cap" is
a remnant of the old school system. In the old "gymnasium", graduation
was not an automatic event: there were tough exams, both written and
oral, overseen by government inspectors. Those who flunked too many
exams quietly left the school building by a back door, the others put
on their caps and stormed out to be greeted by relatives. This system
is gone, mourned by very few, and these days those students who are so
inclined get a cap and wear it when they feel like it, beginning a few
weeks before graduation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peter Herman <[email protected]>
Based on having been in both Stockholm and G�teborg in the weeks
before the gymnasium students take their "Student", I would say that
nearly everyone who can is inclined and when they feel like it is all
the time! Lots of student m�ssor are in evidance everywhere the
first week in june.
One thing that I think is really nice, at least at the gymnasium on
Karlav�gen that our friends daughter graduated from, is that lots of
parents and grandparents still have their m�ssor and wear them while
waiting for their student to emerge from the school.
Another part of the tradition which I don't think has been mentioned
is the carrying of signs. When the parents and friends wait for
the student, they carry a big sign with the graduate's name on it.
The sign generally includes a really embarassing picture. Baby
pictures are common (you know, the naked on a rug type). The best
one we saw showed the graduate fast asleep on her books. Written
under it was "wake me when school is over"!
|
| 346.11 | An experience with the Swedish science degree track | TLE::SAVAGE | | Fri Feb 24 1995 10:41 | 48 |
| From: [email protected] (Per Frojdh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: SWEDISH EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM
Date: 22 Feb 1995 09:29:01 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Some comments on Swedish university degrees:
My experience is in science (I have a PhD in theoretical physics), so
what I say may not be applicable to other areas. The Swedish
kandidatexamen corresponds to a BA. It's supposed to take three years
to complete, but times are individual. One should also keep in mind
that the starting level at a university is usually higher in Sweden
compared to the US, so that may explain why it takes longer in the US.
I have heard this from several people, but have no experience from US
undergraduate teaching myself. I was also told by a student here (in
humanities) that she could enroll at the level of 1.5 years of
undergraduate studies after a Swedish gymnasium. Does someone know if
this is an isolated procedure or is something that's done often?
The next step in Sweden is a magisterexamen. Nominally it's supposed to
take four years including the kandidatexamen, but that's again
individual. The equivalent is a Master's degree. In science it's common
to have done this before you start as a graduate student, as the
kandidatexamen may not be sufficient. However, as far as I know, this
is no requirement. An alternative is to take a civilingenjorsexamen,
which is offered in science and engineering (and not only "civil
engineering"). It's supposed to take 4.5 years and is equivalent to a
Master. There is no "BA" level to stop at in this case.
To get a PhD (doktorsexamen) takes at least four more years. Average is
around five or at least six years, I believe. Recently one has
reintroduced an old degree as a middle step in the PhD programme. It's
called licentiatexamen and you can get this after about three years of
research by presenting a shorter thesis. In science, one is often
encouraged to take this degree, although it is not necessary if one
goes on to the PhD. In some areas it's not common at all, whereas in
other areas it's required. Some people think this degree has a bad ring
to it, as it can be interpreted as a way out if one is failing with the
PhD. This degree does not correspond to anything in the US (as far as I
know).
Once again, let me say that this is based on science and I'm sure there
are variations of this. Sweden is not USA, so many degrees and levels
can not be translated correctly.
Per Frojdh
Dept of Physics, Univ of Washington, Seattle
|
| 346.12 | Science education, USA & Sweden | TLE::SAVAGE | | Tue Feb 06 1996 12:04 | 60 |
| From: Peter Herman <[email protected]>
To: List for those interested in things Swedish
Subject: Science Education and Practice on both sides
Hej Alla,
As an american scientist trained at home and who teaches there but who
has worked in 2 swedish research institutes/universities I can't resist
putting my oar in.
Based on our 3 exchange daughters, all of whom were samh�llsvetenskap
(social science) line gymnasium students with average math and science
grades, science and especially math education is better in Sweden for
high school/gymnasium level students. I am guessing that this may be
true in some of the younger grades as well. All 3 girls were better
prepared in math and science than all but the best biology students I
see when I teach introductory biology for biology majors. Remember too
that they were not in the science line. The SLU students who come out
of the Naturv�tenskap line are far better prepared.
Post graduate research in both Sweden and the US is of very high
quality and which you think is better depends a lot on the field and
sub field you are talking about. The thing I find remarkable about
swedish post-graduate science is the level maintained by a country with
a population of only 8.5 million.
I have to take exception to [statements] that american science is
carried by imported scientists. We certainly benefit greatly from the
students, visitors, and immigrent scientists from abroad. On the other
hand, we have lots of good home grown talent too. The difference is in
the size of the science establishment (E) compared to population (P).
If you look at E/P in the US compared to Sweden, the proportion of the
population active in postgraduate science has to be much smaller in the
US. As a result, we take a smaller proportion of all high school and
university graduates into US research. It could be said that we can
"afford" to have poor training because we need a smaller % of the
products of that training so we will always have enough high level
people by skimming the cream off the top.
I absolutely do NOT agree with that thought. Perhaps the reason that
Sweden is more aware of the impact of society on nature is that the
average Swede is better educated about science than the average
American. I often tell people that the most important biology course
we teach is the course taken by non-majors. It is propably the last
shot we have at turning out an electorate with the tools they will need
to understand the choices they will need to make as society members. At
New Mexico State, we have just revised our course offerings to give
both majors and non-majors a better grounding in natural history and
genetics early on since these are two areas that will be at the core of
many of the societial choices we face.
Peter
************************************************************************
R. Peter Herman email [email protected]
Sveriges Lantbruksuniversitet Phone: +46 18 67 12 20
Inst. f. Markvetenskap Fax: +46 18 67 27 95
S750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
************************************************************************
|
| 346.13 | Academic languages in Denmark | TLE::SAVAGE | | Thu Oct 24 1996 12:20 | 39
|