Conference turris::scandia

    Andrea,
    
    If you have already done so, you might want to read Note 6 in this
    conference about the varieties of Norwegian speech. For some pointers
    to language learning aids, have you read Note 56? 

         I read Note 6 which seemed to confuse the issue.  It seems
    that both nynorsk and bokm�l are used, but which is more common;
    i.e. which "dialect" of Norwegian should I try to learn?  I would
    like to learn the dialect that is more accepted, which seems to
    be bokm�l, but I just want to make sure.
    
         As for instruction, I'm more interested in textbooks than tapes
    (my father taught me the basics of pronunciation, so I think I can
    pronounce anything in Norwegian that's thrown at me).  I'd like
    to learn formal grammar and syntax which a tape is probably not
    going to give me; I guess I'm looking for something similar to the
    grammar books you get in primary school, the old "form the following
    sentences" with various tenses, etc.
    
         As long as I'm at it, is there anyone in the Worcester area
    that speaks Norwegian?  I probably wouldn't be too brave to try
    speaking it until I learned a little bit, but I might get adventurous
    a few months down the road...                        
    
         Thanks!
    
                                        - Andrea
    

Norwegian is confusing. As I recall,

Bokm�l and Nynorsk are writing methods.  Bokm�l is -- roughly -- equivalent
to standard written Danish, while Nynorsk is closer to the pronunciation
of certain dialects.

Landsm�l and Riksm�l describe major dialect families.  Riksm�l is
the upper class dialect, and is spoken in the North.  It is very close
to Swedish (close enough that Swedish television doesn't subtitle
Norwegian programs).  Landsm�l describes many Southern dialects
(closer to Danish?).

I would recommend your learning Bokm�l and "Oslo dialect" -- I suspect
this is what you'd find in any cassette course, and -- excluding entertainment
-- it is what you would hear on the radio.

Martin.

    
    	I beg to differ - having lived there for two years.  The big
    advantage of Nynorsk (which is a combination of dialects) is that
    it is written and spoken the same way.  There is not a need to learn
    two different forms to use it.  The government is pushing it, and
    since they own the TV stations, sub-titles there are usually in
    Nynorsk.  I learned my Norwegian in Troms� (way up north) and the
    name used for their dialect was Troms� V�ring (weathered by Troms�).
    Maybe other people were making fun of it - that's all.  I learned
    my Norwegian in Troms�, was engaged to a woman from Bergen, and
    spent my second year there in V�gsbygd, where most of the students
    were from Oslo, so I almost speak Nynorsk by accident.  Hope this
    doesn't provoke more questions.  Write me outside of notes if you
    want to try talking.  I live in Marlboro.
    
    						-Jerry
    

    IF YOU LIKE TO MEET NORVEIGIANS[SP?] YOU MAY LIKE TO JOIN OUR
    "RAKEFEST" HELD IN APRIL SPONSORED BY A GROUP CALLED "SCANDIA"
    FOR MORE INFO,CALL ME. CHARLOTTA OLSEN
    
    

    Hi,
      Re Last,  are there any Son of Norway chapters here abouts.
    
    Any 17 May celebrations, or Mid-summer fests?
    
    Wondering!
    
    Dave

    I have many friends that belong to Sons of Norway here in Mass.
    since I dont have any phone numbers with me you can call me or
    send mail to cygnus::olsen

    Martin Minow's description of Norwegian languages would start riots
    in Norway. North and South, Upper class and Lower class has nothing
    to do with it. There are two official languages, Nynorsk and Bokmaal.
    Landsmaal and Riksmaal are names for earlier versions of these
    languages. Bokmaal is spoken in and near the larger cities, and
    is heavily influenced by Danish. Nynorsk is spoken outside the cities.
    
    My native language is Bokmaal, which is the most common language.
    It is probably easiest to learn, and maybe the most useful. Personally,
    I find Nynorsk to be a more interesting language, and I enjoy reading
    Nynorsk literaure, especially poetry. But I'm afraid to speak it,
    since as a Chinese friend of mine says: I'm not afraid of Heaven,
    and I'm not afraid of Hell. The only thing that scares me is
    Cantonese people speaking Mandarin.
    
    Tryggve Fossum
    

    I think that the way the difference is described in .8 is quite
    correct. The issue is an ongoing subject of discussion in this
    country. I understand very well that foreigner visiting Norway
    must belive that nynorsk is the "official" language, because the
    fact that films and other programs are subtitled in nynorsk do
    indeed irritate a lot of people here. The parlament once passed
    a law saying that 25% of the programs should be in nynorsk, and
    it seems that these 25% normally is used on the most seen programs.
    
    For the moment I think that only 6% use nynorsk as their daily
    language. Anyway they are very close, and you have to learn both
    at school.
    
    Normally I would think that you would learn bokm�l, if you take
    lessons in norvegian.
    
    Svein
    

  From base note:
    
    > Also, what would noters recom
    > -mend as good books to learn Norwegian from?
    
    From: [email protected] (David L. Golber)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Learning a bit norwegian, how ?
    Date: 21 Feb 91 06:13:32 GMT
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
 
 >I would like to try to learn some norwegian, but I don't have clues on any
 >good course books. I know there are those travel-language books, but that is
 >only very limited. Does anyone know a title of a good book? Or maybe one of
 >those courses with cassettes and such? I speak dutch, english and german and
 >a little bit of french. Please reply to me via email.
 >Yours,
 >             
 >-Leon
 
    Books:
 
    I like: "Norsk, Nordmenn og Norge", Kathleen Stoker and Odd Haddal,
    University of Wisconsin Press, 1981, ISBN 0-299-08690-9.  I believe
    there are tapes to be had.
 
    The old classic is, I believe, "Spoken Norwegian", by Haugen and
    Chapman, Holt Rinehart and Winston, 1947, ISBN 0-03-019065-7.
 
    Just for controversy, I'll mention "Norwegian/Nynorsk", by Peter
    Hallaraaker, Universitetsforlaget, 1983.  ISBN 82-00-05783-6.
 
    Indespensible is Einar Haugen's "Norwegian-English Dictionary", U of
    Wisconsin Press 1965, ISBN 0-299-03874-2.   This book really makes one
    realize what splendid scholarship can be!
 
    I don't have an English-Norwegian dictionary that I like as well as
    Haugen. What I have is Hornby and Svenkerud, "Oxford Englesk-Norsk
    Ordbok", Cappelens Forlag, 1983.  ISBN 82-02-02257-6.
 
    Best of all is to get a spouse that speaks the language fluently. What? 
    You don't have one?  Well, hurry out and start looking!  :-)
 
    Dave Golber

     From: [email protected] (Fredrik Manne)
     Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
     Subject: Re: Learning a bit norwegian, how ?
     Date: 22 Feb 91 09:50:09 GMT
     Sender: [email protected] (Usenet posting account)
     Organization: Institute of Informatics, University of Bergen, Norway
 
    There is now also a computer program available with do it yourself 
    exercises for "Ny i Norge". It should be available from the publishers 
    of the books.
 
    Contact me if you are interested in more information.
 
                                               ` `_______`  `  
Fredrik Manne           tel: +47 5 544163       `/_/_|_\_\ `  The Rain In Spain
Dep. of Informatics     fax: +47 5 544199      `     |  oo  `  Falls Mainly In
University of Bergen    e-mail:                 `    |  <  `       Bergen.
N-5020 Bergen, Norway   [email protected] `  `  J  --  `   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Louis Janus)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Learning a bit norwegian, how ?
    Date: 23 Feb 91 16:01:43 GMT
    Organization: University of Minnesota, Academic Computing Services
 
    Cindy Kandolf wrote: einar haugen's dictionary is EXCELLENT, for anyone
    who speaks english reasonably well and needs to look up words in
    norwegian.  unfortunately i've only found norwegian-english, does a
    companion volume exist?
 
    I think that the relatively new (1988) _Engelsk norsk ordbok_ by Willy
    A. Kirkeby, published by Universitetsforlaget, ISBN 82-00-07776-1 is
    very good.  It is certainly not the companion to Haugen's dictionary,
    in the sense that it is aimed primarily at Enlish speakers, but the
    layout and coverage of words and expressions is excedingly fine.  It
    has more than 800 pages.  I recommend it.
 
    ------------
    
    By the way, I edit the Norwegian Teachers' Newsletter, which goes to
    about 175 teachers of Norwegian in North America and Norway.  The next
    issue should be out in a few days (if Pagemaker does its stuff
    appropriately this afternoon).  If you want to be included in the
    mailing list, please send me your snail mail address.  On second
    thought, there's no reason I can't send an e-mail copy to anyone
    interested.
 
         {*^*}
    Louis Janus 
    Dept of Scandinavian Studies
    University of Minnesota
    200 Folwell Hall
    9 Pleasant St. SE
    Minneapolis, MN 55455  USA
    612/822-1015 (h)
    612/625-9887 (w)
    [email protected]

    From: [email protected] (Truls Ostbye)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Norwegian English dictionaries
    Date: 25 Feb 91 14:28:05 GMT
 
> Cindy Kandolf wrote:
> einar haugen's dictionary is EXCELLENT, for anyone who speaks
> english reasonably well and needs to look up words in norwegian.  unfortunately
> i've only found norwegian-english, does a companion volume exist?
> 
> I think that the relatively new (1988) _Engelsk norsk ordbok_ by Willy
> A. Kirkeby, published by Universitetsforlaget, ISBN 82-00-07776-1
> is very good.  It is certainly not the companion to Haugen's dictionary,
> in the sense that it is aimed primarily at Enlish speakers, but the
> layout and coverage of words and expressions is excedingly fine.  It
> has more than 800 pages. 
> Louis Janus 
 
    The best (and biggest) dictionaries between English and Norwegian are:
 
    Kirkeby WA. Norsk Engelsk Ordbok. Kunnskapsforlaget 1986. 1373 p.
 
    Cappelens store Engelsk Norsk ordbok. Cappelen 1988. 1302 p.

   -- 
   Truls 0stbye                                      Tel (519) 661 2111
   Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics      Fax (519) 661 3766
   University of Western Ontario                     [email protected]
   London, Ontario N6A 5C1, CANADA                   [email protected]

    From: [email protected] (Fredrik Manne)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: "Ny I Norge" - The Computer Program
    Date: 4 Mar 91 16:10:40 GMT
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet posting account)
    Organization: Institute of Informatics, University of Bergen, Norway
                          
 
        "Ny I Norge" - The Computer Program.
       ======================================
 
       Demo version available by anonymous ftp!
      -----------------------------------------
 
    If you are learning Norwegian you might be interested to try the new
    computer program with exercises for the book "Ny I Norge". A demo
    program with 10  (out of 170) exercises selected from the original
    program is now available by anonymous ftp.  The exercises are partly
    from the work book of "Ny I Norge" but there are  also some new ones. 
 
    The program runs on any (IBM-compatible) pc.  The original program
    sells for 500Nkr (about $80). Site license costs 1600Nkr (about $265).
    If you are interested in purchasing the program contact:
 
    Fag og Kultur
    Ostensjov. 44
    N-0667 OSLO 6
    NORWAY
 
    Tel +47 2 720640
    Fax +47 2 631572
 
 
    To get hold of the demo version this is what you do:
    ----------------------------------------------------
 
    ftp 129.177.16.57
 
    login as user: anonymous (type return for paswd)
 
    cd pub/NyINorge
 
    binary              /* Important */
 
   get att.bgi
   get cga.bgi
   get egavga.bgi
   get herc.bgi
   get nydemo.exe
   get nydemo.fix
   get nydemo.ovr
   get pc3270.bgi
   get read-me
   get regel1.fix 
   get trip.chr
 
    quit
 
    Download the files to your pc. The program runs if you type nydemo.
    Read the file read-me for setting up the screen and the special
    characters ae,oe and aa.
 
    Please feel free to distribute the program. If you have any
    comments/questions contact me at:
 
    [email protected]
 
                                               ` `_______`  `
Fredrik Manne           tel: +47 5 544163       `/_/_|_\_\ `  The Rain In Spain
Dep. of Informatics     fax: +47 5 544199      `     |  oo  `  Falls Mainly In
University of Bergen    e-mail:                 `    |  <  `       Bergen.
N-5020 Bergen, Norway   [email protected] `  `  J  --  `

    From: [email protected] (Rolf Marvin B�e Lindgren)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Norwegian dictionary opinion wanted
    Date: 4 Sep 93 20:16:46
    Organization: Det samfunnsvitenskapelige fakultet, Universitetet i Oslo, Norge
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Chad
    Leigh) writes:

  > I would like recommendations for English-Norwegian / Norwegian-English
  > dictionaries (available in USA).  I am looking for something pretty
  > comprehensive (not a small travel dictionary), as well as reasonably
  > priced, and also modern (not a modern release of an ancient dictionary :-).
  > 
  > Thanks
  > Chad
  > 

    From English to Norwegian: Cappelen.
    From Norwegian to English: Einar Haugen.
 
    Einar Haugen is affiliated with the U of Minnesota, I believe, so his
    dictionary should be available in the US.
 
    Cappelen is the third largest publishing house in Norway. I have no
    idea whether their dictionary is available in the US. 
 
    Both are pretty comprehensive, up-to-date. 
 
 
--
       Rolf Lindgren           |       "The opinions expressed above are
       616 Bjerke Studentheim  |        not necessarily those of anyone"
       N-0589 OSLO 5           |           [email protected] 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: [email protected] (Mark Dapoz)
    Subject: Re: Norwegian dictionary opinion wanted
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet News Administrator)
    Organization: Bergen Scientific Centre, Bergen, NORWAY
    Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 08:35:30 GMT
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Randolph Bentson) writes:

  >>From Norwegian to English: Einar Haugen.
  >>
  >
  >His affiliation is University of Wisconsin, and I think it's
  >published by the university press.
  >
 
    It's ISBN number is 82-00-06546-4.  It's definitely the best
    Norwegian-English dictionary I've seen yet, I found it helped a lot
    when learning Norwegian (especially the part about telling you if it's
    an ei/en/et word!).
 
  --
  Mark Dapoz	Bergen Scientific Centre, Bergen, NORWAY	[email protected]
 
    Finger and toes, finger and toes, forty things we share, forty one if
    you include the fact that we don't care.  - The Tragically Hip

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: Louis E. Janus <[email protected]>
    Subject: Re: Norwegian dictionary opinion wanted
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet News Administration)
    Organization: U of Minnesota (sort of)
    Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 13:48:37 GMT
 
    Einar Haugen is now retired, having taught at Harvard and the
    University  of Wisconsin.

    His dictionary is certainly the only real choice for speakers of 
    English.  Not only does it give Norwegian grammatical information, but 
    pronunciation as well.  Has numerous idioms and usage examples.  It 
    includes both Bokmaal and Nynorsk, as well as many dialect forms.
 
    The choice from English to Norwegian is more problematic.  If you have 
    lots of money, perhaps a good choice is: Engelsk-norsk ordbok, Willy A. 
    Kirkeby, Universitetsforlaget.  ISBMN: 82-00-07769-1.  
 
    This newsgroup might also be interested in two PC and Windows on-line 
    dictionaries, both published by Kunnskapsforlaget, and Kirkeby is the 
    editor.  Englelsk-norsk ISBN: 82-573-0393-3;  Norsk-engelsk ISBN: 
    82-573-0473-5.  
 
    I recommend for book purchases (and special orders on the online 
    dictionaries):
 
    Sons of Norway Heritage Book store
    1455 W. Lake Street
    Minneapolis, MN 55408
 
    612/827-3611; 800/945-8851; fax: 612/827-0658

    You won't get special price, but perhaps they will be happy to know
    that  Louis Janus sent you to them.  (Ask for Kelly, she's a friend of
    mine.)
 
    Price on Haugen: $23.65.  Paper version of Kunnskapsforlaget each 
    direction: $29.50.

    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: Louis E. Janus <[email protected]>
    Subject: Re: WANTED: Norwegian dictionary
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet News Administration)
    Organization: U of Minnesota (sort of)
    Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 13:13:21 GMT
 
 
    Kunnskapsforlaget (Oslo) publishes two electronic Norwegian <-> 
    dictionaries.  In each package, you get both the Windows and DOS
    versions.
 
    Engelsk->Norsk.  ISBN 82-573-0393-3.  Has 122,000 oppslagsord and
    176,000  oversettelser (from package back).
 
    Norsk->Engelsk.  ISBN 82-573-0473-5.  Has 52,000 oppslagsord and
    125,000  oversettelser.
 
    Both are edited by Willy Kirkeby, and contain the same information as
    the  printed dictionaries.
 
    People in North America interested in buying these packages can special 
    order them through Sons of Norway Heritage Books, 1455 W. Lake Street, 
    Minneapolis, MN 55408.  800/945-8851; fax: 612/827-0658.  (I teach for 
    SoNs, but do not benefit from their book sales.)
 
    I plan to write a review of these on-line dictionaries for the
    Norwegian Teachers Newsletter in October.  If you are interested in
    receiving a copy, let me know.
 
    Louis Janus
    5136 Sheridan Avenue South
    Minneapolis, MN 55410
    [email protected]