Conference turris::scandia

Associated Press Sat 07-JUN-1986 14:45                         BRF--Submarine

                  Swedish Navy Fires on Suspected Submarine
    
    STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - Swedish warships fired anti-submarine grenades
    and exploded depth charges Saturday following "unclear indications" of
    alien submarine activity in Sweden's territorial waters. It was the
    second straight day during an anti-submarine training exercise that the
    navy fired on suspected unidentified intruders. 
    
    Anti-submarine grenades were fired Friday in Vidinge Bay, 40 miles
    northeast of the capital. Saturday's action took place in nearby
    Natfiord Bay east of Vidinge. 
    
    Defense Ministry spokesman H.G. Wessberg said that "the reason (for
    Saturday's firing) was the same as yesterday (Friday) - we prefer to
    act against unclear indications and then examine the result." 
    
    The navy has been waging a campaign against suspected alien submarine
    activity in Swedish waters for over a decade. The navy has never
    identified a submarine in the attacks. 

Associated Press Mon 06-OCT-1986 19:53                      Sweden-Alien Subs

                       Minesweeper Films Intruding Sub
    
    STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - A minesweeper filmed an intruding foreign
    submarine but could not attack because the Swedish ship was carrying
    families of crew members on an outing at the time, a newspaper reported
    Monday. 
    
    Svenska Dagbladet said the incident was the most dramatic of a dozen
    "clearly established" submarine violations of Swedish coastal waters
    this summer. The newspaper said information on the intrusions were
    included in a military report, yet to be released, that dimmed Swedish
    hopes that submarine violations would stop after Prime Minister Ingvar
    Carlsson's visit to Moscow last spring. 
    
    According to the newspaper, defense experts could not identify the
    nationality of the intruder in the minesweeper incident. Sweden has
    said earlier that the subs violating its waters were from the Soviet
    Union. Navy press spokesman Wyn Enqvist confirmed that a quarterly
    report of the summer's violations would be released later in October,
    but would not divulge the contents. 
    
    In its report of the incident, Svenska Dagbladet said a submarine
    traveling on the surface crossed the course of the minesweeper Skafto
    while it carried civilians on a daytime "family outing" July 22 in the
    Kalmar Straits between the southeastern mainland and Oland Island. The
    minesweeper's captain ordered full speed ahead and crew members made
    still and moving pictures of the submarine. The intruder submerged when
    the Skafto was within "a few hundred yards," Svenska Dagbladet said. 
    
    The minesweeper had no depth charges or anti-submarine grenades aboard
    and did not use cannon for fear that civilians would be wounded if the
    sub fired back, the newspaper said. Swedish naval vessels do not
    customarily carry civilians and the outing appeared to be a unique
    event, or at least very rare. 
    
    Sweden's new military commander-in-chief, Gen. Bengt Gustafsson, said
    in a newspaper interview last week that submarine violations continued
    and promised to present photographic evidence. 
    
    Sweden accused the Soviet Union twice of sending submarines into inner
    Swedish territorial waters. The first occasion was in October 1981,
    when a Soviet sub ran aground near the Karlskrona naval base in
    southeastern Sweden. A parliamentary commission accused Moscow of
    sending submarines into the Stockholm archipelago after a month-long
    hunt for intruders in September 1982. Sweden scaled down its high-level
    contacts with the Soviet Union and started improving its submarine
    defenses after the two incidents. 
    
    Soviet leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev assured Prime Minister Carlsson in
    Moscow, however, of the Soviet Union's "unconditional respect for
    Sweden's traditional policy of neutrality." 

Associated Press Wed 22-APR-1987 20:46                    BRF--Sweden-Soviets

                 Swedish Jet Fighter Violates Soviet Airspace
    
    STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - A Swedish jet fighter accidentally violated
    Soviet airspace Wednesday and the Foreign Ministry promptly apologized,
    a Swedish defense staff official said. 
    
    "A J35 Draken (jet fighter) violated Soviet air space north of the
    Liepaja naval base in Lithuania," defense official Kari Hansson told
    The Associated Press. He said it appeared to be "a gross violation."
    She said she did not know if Soviet fighters scrambled to head off the
    Swedish figher. "We only know the pilot turned when he was informed he
    was off course." She said Swedish military air controllers were to
    blame for the mistake. 
    
    The jet was flying between the Swedish island Gotland and the Soviet
    mainland, Ms. Hansson said. 

Associated Press Fri  5-JUN-1987 14:44                       Sweden-Submarine

                    Unidentified Sub Interrupts Maneuvers
    
    STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - The Swedish navy detected a submarine in its
    coastal waters during recent maneuvers but could not identify the
    intruder, a defense staff officer said Friday. It was the first
    recorded submarine alert of the season. Several alien craft are
    reported in Swedish waters each year, mostly during months when the
    coasts are ice-free. 
    
    "The indications will be thoroughly analyzed, but there is nothing that
    indicates we will be able to indentify the origin of the intruder,"
    said defense spokesman Hans Gustaf Wessberg. The last prowler
    identified publicly was in 1982, when Sweden protested to the Soviet
    Union about the incursion of one of its submarines. 
    
    Wessberg said the navy detected alien underwater activity after
    starting top secret maneuvers in Kattegat-Skagerrak Straits northwest
    of Goteborg May 23. He indicated the hunt went on for days, but
    declined to give details, except to say no shots were fired. 
    
    Wessberg would not say specifically how the submarine was detected.
    "There were several indications, both technical and optical," he told
    The Associated Press, implying that sailors both sighted the sub and
    picked it up on detection gear. 
    
    The daily newspaper Svenska Dagbladet quoted Vice Adm. Bengt Schuback,
    the navy chief, as saying he regarded the incident as "serious." 

    Special to the Christian Science Monitor by Judith Kasa. 

    Stockholm.  The official visit here by Soviet Prime Minister Nikolai
    Ryzhkov comes under a pall of suspicion that Soviet submarines continue
    to violate Swedish territorial waters. 

    The submarine issue and the settlement of boundary disputes in the
    Baltic Sea [see Note 254] are expected to be the main focus of Mr.
    Ryzhkov's talks with Swedish Prime Minister Ingvar Carlsson. 

    A Swedish Defense Ministry report released just before Christmas didn't
    target any nation for a series of  territorial violations last summer,
    but press reports said the Swedish Navy had circumstantial evidence
    pointing to the Soviet Union. 

    "It would be theoretically possible to present the evidence, and it
    would all point in one direction," said a high naval source. Most of
    the report remains secret, but a videotape of tracks left on the ocean
    floor by a minisubmarine at an unspecified location was released. 

    While declining to place blame for the "underwater activities," Swedish
    officials recently warned that intruders would be sunk. 

    Mr. Ryzhkov has said that Soviet submarines were not violating Swedish
    waters and attributed such claims to anti-Soviet groups wanting to
    discredit Moscow. 

    The only time the Soviet Union has admitted violating Swedish waters
    was in 1981, when a submarine ran aground off the major naval base at
    Karlskrona. The Soviets said this was due to a navigational error. 

    In 1983, an official Swedish report said that Soviet submarines
    conducted operations near Muskow Naval Base in October 1982. Since
    then, other incidents have been regularly reported [as previous replies
    to this note attest]. 

    The submarine issue is creating domestic tensions in Sweden. Some
    commentators accuse the Swedish government of a cover-up of Soviet
    activities. Retired naval commander Hans von Hofsten has said the
    Swedish government isn't taking naval reports of regular Soviet
    operations seriously. 

    But Nils Skoeld, a Swedish Defense Ministry advisor and former Army
    commander, says he now doubts the evidence presented in 1983. 

    Some political analysts also say the Soviets would not issue such
    categorical high-level denials unless they were sure that Sweden, in
    fact, had no evidence against them. 

re: .5

    The only time the Soviet Union has admitted violating Swedish waters
    was in 1981, when a submarine ran aground off the major naval base at
    Karlskrona. The Soviets said this was due to a navigational error. 

Of course it was a navigational error.  If the sub had navigated correctly,
it wouldn't have run aground.

Martin.

    From: [email protected] (Magnus M)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Date: 29 Apr 92 13:04:52 GMT
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: Unaffiliated, not SUNET staff. Stockholm, Sweden
 
    In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
 
 > PS: the Russians have admitted that the navigational equippment onboard the
 >     U137 wasn't broken like they have claimed upto now.
 >     I don't know what M*j W*chselmann have to say about this, but since she
 >     is the major proponent of the theory that the U137 incursion resulting
 >     from a error in navigation due broken navigational equippment it shoots
 >     her arguments right out of the water, to use a naval expression.
 > --
 
    Now when did 'the russians' admit this? Who admitted it? Last I saw,
    the captain was interviewed and still claimed it was out of order that
    was just a few months ago. I am not quesitoning the fact that they in
    fact had it completely functional, i am questioning your sources to
    this statement. To admit it would be stupid of them unless it gains
    another purpose but to make the swedish marine say 'We told you so' :-)
 
-Magnus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Bjorn Fahller)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Date: 29 Apr 92 14:36:16 GMT
    Organization: Lule� H�gskolas datorf�rening ( Ludd )
 
    In <[email protected]> [email protected]
    (Magnus M) writes:

   >Now when did 'the russians' admit this? Who admitted it? Last I saw, the
   >captain was interviewed and still claimed it was out of order that
   >was just a few months ago. I am not quesitoning the fact that they
   >in fact had it completely functional, i am questioning your sources
   >to this statement. To admit it would be stupid of them unless it gains
   >another purpose but to make the swedish marine say 'We told you so' :-)
 
    It was mentioned in the newspapers and TV-news a few days ago. Nothing
    too specific, though.
 
    _
   /Bjorn.

    From: [email protected] (Tomas Eriksson)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Submarines
    Date: 22 Sep 92 15:28:46 GMT
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet)
    Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
 
    What today has been described as the most serious submarine hunt since 
    1982 has been going on for at least 1,5 weeks, and is still going on,
    in  the area southeast of Stockholm. Prime minister Carl Bildt has
    today  said that Russia is responsible, and has protested. An armed 
    anti-submarine torpedo was used last week, but apparently missed its 
    target. The operative aim is not to force a Russian (?) submarine to 
    surface, but rather to sink it.

    As far as has been publicly known, Swedish naval units recieved
    permission to use anti-submarine torpedoes  (previously reserved for
    wartime use) for the first time a few months  ago, during the last
    publicized hunt. This is probably because Sweden  now has a
    non-socialist government (since October 1991). The previous  social
    democratic one had a much softer attitude. Some actually went as  far
    as to suggest that the government ignored the problem.
 
Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          [email protected]
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: [email protected] (Tomas Eriksson)
    Subject: Re: Submarines
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet)
    Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
    Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 14:00:06 GMT
 
    To force a submarine to surface, if the submarine isn't here by
    mistake,  and isn't manned by newly recruited very nervous personell,
    means to  give it enough damage so it has to surface to avoid being
    sunk. To do  this, and to guarantee with any degree of confidence that
    the submarine  will not get enough damage to actually be sunk without
    having the option  to surface, is for all practical purposes
    impossible. Any at least  half-smart naval officer, or any naval
    weapons engineer, could have told the government this, and probably
    have, but they never listened. 

    Instead, the navy has had to use methods and weapons which is very 
    unlikely to either sink a submarine or force it to surface. I'm sure 
    they've caused the submarine crews (probably well-trained GRU officers) 
    quite a lot of discomfort, though. Now, finally, they try to sink them. 
    This policy should have started 1982, not 1992!
 
Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          [email protected]
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: [email protected] (Kjartan Stefansson)
    Subject: Soviet submarine leaking
    Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
    Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 18:53:31 GMT
 
 
    A couple of years ago a Soviet nuclear submarine caught fire and sunk
    off the cost of Norway.  The story was revisited last night on ABC
    news, because of the findings of a Russian team.  It seems that the
    submarine is already leaking some radioactive materials (Cesium?). 
    More importantly, photographs indicate that it has cracks that may lead
    to a plutonium leak in the next couple of years.
 
    I imagine that this is getting much more coverage in Norway.  If there
    is an escape of plutonium, it would have devastating effect on the
    Norwegian fishing industry.  I trust that the Norwegians will keep us
    posted...
  
    Kjartan Stefansson
    ([email protected])

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: [email protected] (Odd Bolin, Royal Inst of Tech, Stockholm,
	Sweden)
    Subject: Re: Soviet submarine leaking
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet)
    Organization: Plasma Physics, KTH, Stockholm, Sweden
    Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 09:32:55 GMT
 
 
    From what I read in Dagens Nyheter (Sweden's largest morning paper)
    today, the Norwegian authorities consider the sudden Russian interest
    in this sub a bit suspicious. It is resting on 1700 meters, and the two
    nuclear torpedoes it has contains 10-20 kilos of Plutonium. That is a
    very small amount indeed compared to what the Soviet Navy dumped in the
    form of nuclear reactors and nuclear waste in approximately the same
    area. 
    
    Strange enough, the Russians don't seem to care much about that
    stuff... So, according to the newspaper, the Norwegian authorities
    think that the present "scientific" findings might just be a way for
    the Russians to get a permit to raise the sub in order to protect some
    military secrets. However, Norwegian sources havn't found any leaks of
    the same order of magnitude as the Russians claim. Besides, they think
    the sub might break if one tries to raise it, thereby leaking
    radioactivity much closer to the surface.
 
    I hope this isn't too far off from the Norwegian version...;-).
 
    Odd Bolin
    Department of Plasma Physics, Alfven Laboratory
    Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
    Ph: +46 - 8 - 790 7701	Fax: +46 - 8 - 245431
    Internet: [email protected]

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    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: [email protected] (Jan Arne Fagertun)
    Subject: Re: Soviet submarine leaking
    Sender: [email protected] (NetNews Administrator)
    Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
    Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 09:47:16 GMT
 
 
    The norwegian authorities answered this submarine story tuesday
    morning, immediately after the story was known. They said that the
    possible plutonium leakage will be nothing compared to the pollution
    from the nuclear tests in the atmosphere, which has supplied thousands
    of kg. to the seas. Now it may be increased to thousands + 20 kg.
 
    In a way the authorities are right, but extremely wrong, I'd say. The
    thousands of kg. has been spread over a large area, and over a long
    period of time. It's correct to say that to pour another 20 kg. into
    the oceans will be a rather small problem, on the average - the problem
    is that the 20 kg. of plutonium will not be spread, but will be
    concentrated to a rather small area. So I fear that the local damages
    may be rather heavy.
 
    But I don't think this will be any problem regarding the norwegian
    salmon, as somebody fear.
 
    Today's news say that the Soviet marine has dumped lots of nuclear
    pollution, 13 nuclear reactors included.....
 
 
    +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
    | E-mail: [email protected]                                |
    | Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
    | Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------------+

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Rolf Manne)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Soviet submarine leaking
    Date: 25 Nov 92 09:43:53 GMT
    Sender: [email protected] (Bergen University Newsaccount)
    Organization: University of Bergen
 
    This was on Norwegian radio news yesterday morning. I did not watch TV
    and did not get the morning newspaper today. The official Norwegian
    attitude is that this story may be bad for Norwegian fish export to the
    United States but it is not quite so bad in itself. The amount of 
    radioactive material which could be released is small from that already 
    deposited in the oceans by atmospheric nuclear explosions. 
    
    A representative of the equivalent of the atomic energy commission
    (there is no atomic energy in Norway) also said that for safety reasons
    it would be better not to try to salvage that submarine. Those who want
    to do that want that for other reasons than nuclear safety, he said.
 
    I guess that some Russian companies hope to get a lot of money from
    abroad for the salvage operation. 
 
    As a chemist, I would like to add that plutonium may be bad for your
    health, but since sulfate ions are present in sea-water plutonium
    sulfate would be formed. This salt has low solubility like all
    heavy-metal sulfates. This was not said on the radio, however.
 
 
    Rolf Manne
    Department of Chemistry, University of Bergen
    e-mail [email protected]

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    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: [email protected] (Magne Maehre)
    Subject: Re: Soviet submarine leaking
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: Statoil DDM, Norway
    Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 11:59:38 GMT
 
    Yes, a joint team of norwegian and russian scientists has measured a
    small amount of caesium from the seabed near the sunken vessel.  The
    amount has been constant for the last couple of years (i.e there is no
    increase!).  The level of radiation is far lower than it was after the
    Tsjernobyl disaster.
  
    The norwegian "Statens Atomenergibyraa" (the official authority on
    nuclear energy questions) states that the story as presented on ABC
    consisted of only fragments of the truth.
 
    There are discussions, tho - on whether they should rescue the sub,
    seal it off or what....
 
 
    Magne Maehre
 
    - Standard disclaimer applies! -
 
 =============================================================================
 X.400......: G=Magne; S=Mahre; O=ST; P=STATOIL; A=TELEMAX; C=NO
 X.400......: G=Magne; S=Maehre; OU=AVH; O=UNIT; P=UNINETT; A=UNINETT; C=NO
 Internet...: [email protected]
 Internet...: [email protected]
 =============================================================================

The basic report now going across the s.c.n is that this is:

1.  Not important, the level of cesium hasn't changed in years

2.  The russians want some military secret there

3.  The US wants some military secret there

4.  It would be more dangerous to raise/disturb the sub

5.  It is deep and the amount of plutonium is small and would cause
no problem, especially considering how much of the stuff is already
in the seas/atmosphere from earlier atmospheric nuclear bomb testing.
A chemist also pointed out that it would form plutonium sulfates that
are less problems if it were to escape into sea water.

6.  The hubbub is a US plot to get folks to not buy Norwegian fish for
fear of radioactivity, as the US recently lost some international court
dispute over fishing to Norway.

Basically, there is no danger according to the reports

    From: [email protected] (GREGORY GRANSDEN)
    Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.military,
	clari.news.hot.east_europe,clari.news.hot.ussr,clari.news.politics,
	clari.news.europe
    Subject: Russia accepts Swedish evidence of submarine incursions
    Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 8:01:43 PST
 
	MOSCOW (UPI) -- The Kremlin conceded that Swedish evidence of
submarine incursions into its territorial waters is indisputable but
would not say whether the subs were Russian, Swedish Prime Minister Carl
Bildt said Friday after talks with President Boris Yeltsin.
	Bildt told a news conference that Russian naval experts had agreed
that Swedish evidence, such as data on accoustic soundings, provided to
Russia in the course of talks over the past year, proved that foreign
submarines had made incursions into Swedish maritime zones.
	"They have agreed that this technical evidence shows the presence of
foreign submarines. We have established there is a problem," said
Bildt, who was in Russia primarily to discuss trade.
	But the Russian side did not say whether or not the submarines were
Russian, or say who else might own them.
	Bildt said in this respect the talks had "not produced definitive
conclusions in all aspects."
	Yeltsin seemed to say the submarines were not Russian.
	"We want scientists and military experts to jointly work out methods
to find out whose submarines violate Swedish territorial waters,"
Yeltsin said in comments quoted by the Russian news agency Interfax
following meetings with Bildt Thursday.
	"The prime minister and I have decided to continue our dialogue on
this matter until we get down to the truth," Yeltsin said.
	Bildt noted that the incursions had declined in recent years and said
he was satisfied that Yeltsin was acting in good faith to shed light on
the issue.
	"President Yeltsin is determined to seek the truth, whatever that
truth might be," Bildt said. "He said he had never ordered Russian
submarines into Swedish waters and I believe him."
	On a separate issue, Bildt denounced as a "criminal act" Estonia's
recent export of a consignment of heating oil, which Sweden had donated
to Tallinn to be distributed to elderly citizens too poor to pay their
heating bills.
	He said the illicit sale was being ivestigated in Sweden and that he
expected action from Estonia as well.
	"We'll be following closely what is done by the government of
Estonia," he said.
	Bildt also scheduled trips to St. Petersburg and Novgorod.

             STOCKHOLM, Sweden (Reuter) - Sweden may have mistaken minks
    and other small swimming animals for intruding Russian
    submarines, military chiefs say.
             A navy analysis showed that some animals and submarines
    produced the same sound patterns when detected by hydrophonic
    instruments, the daily Dagens Nyheter said Wednesday.
             For many years Sweden has accused foreign powers, especially
    Moscow, of snooping in its territorial waters.
             Swedes regularly dropped depth charges into Baltic waters in
    the 1980s to try to bring submarines to the surface.
             The report said analysis of sound recorded over the past
    three years by hydrophonic buoys did not differentiate between
    submarines and some animals -- particularly swimming minks.
             ``This applies to all sound detected by hydrophonic images
    taken since 1992,'' Owe Wiktorin, head of the Swedish armed
    forces, told the daily.
             Dagens Nyheter said the navy could not say how long it may
    have been mistaking minks for submarines. Wiktorin said analysis
    was to be extended to tapes of suspected submarine noise
    recorded before 1992.
             Reported submarine activity has dropped since the collapse
    of the Soviet Union, according to defense officials.

    From: [email protected] (Mats Winberg)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Agent Mink 007
    Date: 13 Feb 1995 12:11:40 GMT
    Organization: Ericsson Telecom
     
   
    Recently, the Swedish military have confirmed what many have suspected:
    Most of the underwater sounds picked up by the Swedish marine in recent
    years, were not made by u-boats but by swimming animals. Minks, to be
    specific.
 
    The military bought a mink (325 SEK) and let it swim while recording
    the sound and then used it as a reference to compare with sounds
    recorded along the east-coast of Sweden.
 
    The mink, which has done so much service for truth, was put to death
    afterwards according to Swedish press. My immediate reaction to this
    was: They silenced a witness !
 
    This mink, who could not talk but whose existence was a threat to those
    interested in maintaining the "u-boat threat" should be hailed as the
    great mink he was. He gave his life in pursuit of truth and thus put an
    end to more than ten years of u-boat fear in Sweden. If the king could
    give Ceaucescu the "Serafimer"- Order, he could well give it to this
    noble mink.
 
    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Mats Winberg
    Stockholm, Sweden        
    employed by, but not speaking for
    Ericsson Telecom
    -----------------------------------------------------------------