Conference turris::scandia

  Much of what is said in 7.0 is still true, but some of the customs
  are not so rigid nowdays, especially among younger people.
  
  A comment on the use of English in Sweden. Nowdays a very high
  percentage of the swedish population understand and speak English,
  so that in most cases English speaking tourists have few problems
  making themselves understood.

  Set mode /humorous
  
  This reminded me of something that I was told by a friend before
  my first trip to Finland.  I had carefully learned:
  
  	"En puhuu suomea"  -- I don't speak Finnish
  
  He said that in his experience this didn't work.  He claimed
  that whenever he tried this the other person would look at him,
  decide that since he obviously knew that much Finnish he must
  know more, and proceed right on.  As a result, he finally resorted
  to:
  
  	"Min� ei puhut suomi"  -- I (to not) (you speak) Finnish
                                                          ^- wrong
                                                             case
  
  He said that this would always convince the listener that he
  indeed did not know *any* Finnish.
  
  set mode /more_serious
  
  I have to mirror a number of comments in this file and say that
  the scandinavians that I have met while in scandinavia were
  invariably very polite, helpful, and, especially of the younger
  generations, quite fluent in English.
  
  Jim Johnson

  Sorry to be pedantic, but I always thought 'var s� god' means
  something like 'be so good' (vara = to be), or were my eight
  years of Swedish in school in vain?
                                                               
  The same thing in Finnish would be 'ole hyv�' (be good, we leave
  the 'so' out...).
  

  Re: .3:
  
    According to my Swedish-English dictionary, 'vara' does indeed
  translate 'be' or 'exist.'  Your eight years of school Swedish
  are vindicated.
  
  Neil 

  Re: .3
  	'Var s� god' does mean 'be so kind' if you translate it
  directly. The three words together do however mean 'you are
  welcome.' 
  
  		Terje.

	I am of the impression that this saying is from the "Old Norse"
	or ICELANDIC (in my book).  Literally, (circa 900 A.D.), "BE
	THEE GOOD" for lack of better anglo-translation.

		\rik

	-< Some comments from another Swede... >-
    
    (Re: 7.0)
    
    As a new user of VAXNotes, I found it awfully interesting to find
    a conference on Scandinavia/Sweden. Jolly good initiative!
    
    Your experiences from 15-20 years ago seem a trifle outdated, I'm
    afraid, albeit some of them might still apply. In those 15-20
    years quite a few things have happened, among which a quite noticeable
    Americanisation of our culture is one of the most prominent. In
    most cases this has had a positive impact, although there are cases
    proving the opposite as well.
    
    Take this thing about us Swedes being "frosty", "unfriendly to 
    strangers", "taciturn" etc., for example. To me, that is wrong.
    That is just, unbelievably enough, some kind of rumour that we
    have been spreading about ourselves. Actually, most Swedes are
    very sociable, not at all the bores that some of us seem to
    think we are!
    
    I find it really amusing to note that the North American expressions
    "Have a nice day!" and "Hi! How are you doing?", the latter of which
    I found very typically Canadian when I lived there for most of '84
    and '85, have found their way across the 'pool' and translated into
    the equivalents of 'Ha en bra dag!' and 'Tjena! Hur �r l�get?',
    respectively. Somehow it doesn't sound quite Swedish...
    
    BTW, that business about the Scandinavian alphabet really is a mess...
    
    

    I wouldn't want to leave anyone with the impression that I implied
    that Swedes were unfriendly.  On the contrary, the conventional
    (book) wisdom was that they used to be fascinated by foriegners,
    and especially interested in things English (Americans came in second).
    
    Taciturn or reserved maybe, but _never_ unfriendly.  I think the worst
    I heard was: slow to warm up, but once a friendship struck it was for a
    very long time.  That could just as easily describe a Down East yankee
    old-timer. 
    
    With a Country like Sweden that is relatively homogeneous, there's an
    extra measure of temptation to overgeneralize and indulge in
    stereotyping.  One of the Swedish guys I spent the most time with was
    very outgoing and spontaneous. 
                                                                          
    Do I sense correctly, though, that a lot of the formality has gone from
    Swedish society?  What about dress?  Have blue jeans and jogging shoes
    totally replaced evening clothes? 

    (re: .8)
    
    Not to worry, that's not the impression you left at all!
    You merely confirmed what I tried to say - that most foreign
    visitors to Sweden don't at all agree with our "low" opinion
    of our own friendliness. That collective case of 
    'thinking-we-are-boring-itis' is slowly being cured, but it has
    taken its time. The politicians are still boring, but I guess
    you can't cure them all...
    
    Yes, the social life is a lot less casual nowadays (I wasn't around
    in the 50's, but I know some who were). I wouldn't go as far as
    to say that jeans and jogging shoes have taken over, but dressing
    up for dinner is certainly less common nowadays. You wouldn't notice
    much difference between Swedish and American social life nowadays,
    certainly not among the younger people. Paradoxically enough, the
    students are among the best at keeping those old traditions alive,
    with formal dinner parties and all that. 
    
    I'm sure you would love it here - why not come back for a visit?
    By the way, in which circumstances did you happen to come here,
    and how did you become so interested in Scandinavia?
    
    Regards, P-O
     
    

    Re: 9:
    
>   I'm sure you would love it here - why not come back for a visit?
>   By the way, in which circumstances did you happen to come here,
>   and how did you become so interested in Scandinavia?

    I first came to Sweden in 1962 as a college student on a "Outbound"
    program with the Experiment in International Living.  That included a
    three-week 'homestay' with two Swedish families - one in Gothenburg,
    the other in V�nersborg.  There were a total of ten American students,
    in our party, 3 boys and 7 girls.  With our Swedish counterparts,
    we also toured Norway (Trondheim - �ndalsnes - Oslo).
    
    I returned in 1965 to revisit, and to see new places - such as Uppsala
    and �nge (I made friends with a Swedish girl from there who was
    at Mount Holyoke while I was at U. Mass, Amherst).
    
    In 1969, I returned with my wife (who is Swedish-American) for a
    reunion with the West Coast families I had stayed with in 62 & 65.
    
    Needless to say, Sweden made quite an impression on my first visit!
    You could fairly say my mind was blown away.  I have not ruled out
    the possibility of a fourth visit [one reason for starting this file].
    If finances permitted, I'd take the entire family (which now numbers
    6 - incl. three teen-aged boys and a 6-year old girl).
    
    H�lsningar,
    
    Neil
    

    On the west wall of the Riddarholm Church in the Old Town of Stockholm,
    near the north door, is a Latin inscription, painted in red.  Written
    by some medievel monk, the inscription tabulates six weaknesses
    of the Swedish character purported to cause national misfortune.
     
    The sixth weakness translates, "a thoughtless favoritism of foreigners."

Group soc.culture.nordic
article 373

From: [email protected] (Vicki L. Almstrum)
Subject: the Swedish word 'lagom'
Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas

Swedes have a reputation for having a moderate society -- not too much, not
too little, all things done and said in moderation.  They have a word for
this, lagom.  It is claimed that no other language in the world has a single
word to express this concept.

At the dinner table, if asked how much of something one wants, the reply is
often "lagom" --  just enough.  Would have made description much easier as
Goldilocks was trying to choose porridge, chair, and bed!!

Some criticism of the Swedish school system has to with this philosophy.
Many Swedes I've talked to feel that all children, regardless of capability,
are encouraged to at least give the appearance of toeing the middle ground,
which often causes the quicker kids to be held back.  I find this to be
an interesting paradox, since many of the Swedes I've known are exceptionally
intelligent and talented.                                                    

    Some brief comments on Norwegian manners, based on a brief visit:

    Norwegians attend much more to manners (are more polite) in
    face-to-face situations than Americans are.  "Ver so god" and "Tusen
    takk" seem to make up half the conversation.  Lots of Norwegians have
    studied English in school, but I wouldn't say they all spoke it and
    they love it when you say anything in Norwegian.  My proudest
    achievement in three weeks was buying an Ace bandage, all in Norsk,
    from a young clerk who spoke no English.  This was on Mariesgate in
    Oslo, so you see, they don't all speak Engelsk.

    Norwegians don't seem to have very clear ideas about how to behave in
    public.  This is *not* a complaint, but if you're walking slower down
    the sidewalk than the Norwegian behind you thinks you should, the
    Norwegian behind you doesn't seem to know how to say "coming through"
    or "hot stuff" or "watch me now" or "excuse me" or any phrase that an
    American might use.  As for "untskyld", I never got the hang of how to
    use it.  It's apparently not what Norwegians expect you to say when
    you're far from the door on a train and it's at your stop.  Rett fram,
    maybe?

    A brief, native comment to the comments in .13:
    
    It's interesting to read observations like these -
    although recent statistics show that "V�r s� god"
    and "Tusen takk" now only make up 28% of Norwegian
    conversation. In addition, we have the nasty habit 
    of saying "Takk for maten" (Thanks for the food)
    to the host(ess) or your parents when leaving the
    table, an idiom which has amused many Americans hosts.
    
    Whether the American way should be taken as a standard
    for how to behave in public, I'm not quite sure.
    I was amused by the constant "excusemexcusemexcuseme"
    buzz in office building corridors in the US, but now
    I see that it was probably me as a Norwegian, not
    knowing how to behave in public, who obstructed the
    passage...
    
    As for "unnskyld", it's used both if someone stands
    in your way, and after stomping someone's foot.
    However, lots of Norwegians never get off at their
    stop, being too shy to say "unnskyld" if someone
    stands in their way on the train.
    
    One classic example of foreigners having success
    speaking Norwegian, was Diana Ross, married to
    Norwegian adventurer Arne Naess. (She did, I believe,
    have some success as a recording artist before this..). 
    She presented one of the Norwegian Academy Awards
    a couple of years ago, and hardly made an effort to
    pronounce the candidates' names correctly. But when
    she said "Yaye air noorsk", she was one of us forever.
    
    Henrik ;^)
    

    re .12 on Swedish school system being "lagom"
    
    (BTW, the Norwegian word "passe" is a fairly exact translation of
    "lagom", though there may be subtleties and shades of meaning of
    wuich I am unaware)
    
    "the Economist" (British Newsweek/Time, but 10 times as good) had
    a good article on the aspects of the system mentioned in the note.
    The article was based on an extensive study made of the results
    of the system over a long time period.  The gist of the results
    (as I recall from memory) was that the "middle ground" type education
    did NOT hold back brighter pupils/students, when these came from
    homes and backgrounds with good economy/educational level, or where
    there was positive encouragement for education in the home. Those
    who were under average were taken care of by special programs, etc.
    The only group that did badly was bright people from homes or
    environments low edu/eco status (i.e., not enough reinforcement).
    These could often come out worse than average, or become "social
    problems".
    
    Paradoxically (but very often the case) programs that are intended
    to be "just", often wind up strengthening the advantaged at the
    expense of the disadvantaged.
    
    Mauritz
    

    Group soc.culture.nordic

    From: [email protected] (Fridrik Skulason)
    Organization: University of Iceland (RHI)

    Here in Iceland it is customary always to use first names. You NEVER,
    NEVER address anyone by his/her last name. The reason is of course that
    we don't use family names here.

    --
         Fridrik Skulason          University of Iceland
         [email protected]                                

    Group soc.culture.nordic                                               

    From: [email protected] (Robert Martensen)
    Subject: Swedish culture and etiquette
    Organization: TeleLOGIC Uppsala AB

    Swedish culture is sort of a minimalistic one. In fact all of
    Scandinavia (except Denmark) is sort of a gigantic minimalistic art
    happening (Andy Warhold (?) would be proud over us), where it is
    essential not to do anything that isn't necessary!

    I vaugely remember a story about two Finns (Jokka and Pekka) sitting at
    a table with a few bottles of vodka. Jokka lifts his glass and says
    SK�L! (i.e. cheers. "Sk�l" is swedish but it is a swedish story) Pekka
    looks up and says in a irritated voice "Are we here to drink or to
    talk!?

    There are more stories like that so I guess the Finns must be even
    better than us in reducing unnecessary smalltalk.

    That is, the scandinavian cultures tries to minimize the overhead in
    the communication protocol, and even takes away the carrier (eye
    contact and small talk) when there are no information to send :-)

    A German on the net said that the cultural difference Dave was talking
    about was not USA vs Scandinavia but USA vs Europe. That (North)
    Europeans in general are more strict and formal than Americans
    (Californians). I don't agree altogether. Both Swedes, Germans and
    Englishmen are reserved, but the Germans and Englishmen are strict in a
    formal way that the traditional Swede isn't. The Swede is usually more
    something like shy or indifferent.

    Swedish didn't have any formal way of addressing people until strong
    German influence gave it to us sometime after the 14th century (don't
    remember when) and it never was a strong habit except in the middle and
    upper classes. Now is almost totally extinct again, together with
    titles. The common way to address people is also with first names.

    I.e. you can address a Swede in whatever manner you wish (as long as it
    isn't some upper class lady or a yuppie(!)), as long as you don't give
    him the feeling that you are trying to get some kind of relationship
    (friendship or whatever) with him. Friendship is a serious thing. In a
    friendship you have to commit yourself, and the typical Swede don't
    want to commit himself unnecessarily (minimalization again).

    In fact the question of etiquette, "Have a nice day", beeing friendly
    etc, is a hot topic in Sweden nowadays (Well, hot is perhaps +5 degrees
    Celsius in Sweden :-). Strong powers have been in motion to reestablish
    titles, formal addressing etc. (like: It is sooo nice to be addressed
    Mr Comp. eng. Martensson, instead of a vulgar Robert, so I can hear
    that they have a proper respect for me (Yuck)). The same goes for the
    bleeding "Have a nice day". What's wrong with "hej d�" or whatever? My
    theory is that it is the "new rich" yuppies who tries to get some sort
    of aristocrat appearance, at the same time as they try to be like those
    Californians (you have a good reputation here in Sweden, at least among
    bussiness people, computer eng. and their likes.

    Oh dear! It almost seems like I got upset. Not very Swedish, is it? :-)

--
Real life:      Robert Martensson               Email:  robert@uplog.{se,uucp}
Snail mail:     TeleLOGIC Uppsala AB            Phone:  +46 18 189441
                Box 1218                        Fax:    +46 18 132039
                S - 751 42 Uppsala, Sweden                                    

    From: [email protected] (Lyle Davis)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Date: 6 Feb 90 21:16:10 GMT
    Organization: People-Net [pnet12], Del Mar, CA
 
[email protected] (Chuck Anderson) writes:
>   When I went to Denmark my first reaction, lasting for days, was that
>Danish people were either really rude or did not like Americans. I was there
>in late Sept., out of tourist season, so I did not expect that people
>were just plain tired of the tourists (we get that way here in Boulder by the
>middle of the summer).
 
    Interesting.  I didn't get that impression at all.  All of the hotel
    staff, restaurant staff, airline/steamship/ferry staff, seemed quite
    cordial.  We had taxi drivers, hotel personnel go out of their way to
    help us.  We were trying to track down ancestors and contemporary
    relatives and the pastor of the church got down a dusty old volume of
    former members, the cab driver would look all over creation for people
    who might know our people, etc.
 
    While taking the train from Copenhagen to Vejle we missed a connection. 
    The train left with all of our luggage, passports, portable laptap
    computer, etc.  By the time we discovered our error the officers on
    board the ferry radioed the train company, had them drop our luggage at
    Vejle station, put us on the next train, upgraded us to first class. 
    They couldn't have been more genial, cordial, helpful.
 
    Once on the train again we had an elderly gentelman, Axel Olson, who
    spoke no English; we spoke no Danish.  We had a wonderful conversation. 
    Later, an engineer boarded and he was fluent in both languages and
    translated. Axel saw us off the train at Vejle, helped us find our
    luggage, put us in a taxi and sent us to a beautiful hotel.  He
    wouldn't leave until he knew we were well taken care of.  I tried to
    induce him to have a drink with us but he declined.
 
    Later, in Norway, we would ask directions for family members.  Folks
    would say...."you follow me".  They then drove us to our relatives
    house!!
 
    Nope....I have no complaints against the Scandinavian people.  They
    treated us wonderfully.
 
    UUCP: uunet!serene!pnet12!lyled
    ARPA: [email protected]
    INET: [email protected]

    			Foriegn Relations
    
    		by Ruth M. Pitchford
    
    Why is it that, when far from home
    (In a voice like clanging bells)
    The more unsure of the alien tongue
    The louder the tourist yells?
    
    Why must he turn the volume up
    When he visits a foreign land?
    Does Berlitz teach him that yelling helps
    To make folks understand?
    
    Why does he wave his arms about
    To emphasize each word?
    Does he really think the windmill act
    Will help him to be heard?
    
    Won't someone ask him to lower his voice
    And eliminate excess motion?
    It's hands across the sea we want,
    Not screams across the ocean.

    AMEN!
    

    From: [email protected] (Oystein Groevlen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Date: 14 Jun 90 08:40:02 GMT
    Organization: Div. of CS & T, Norwegian Institute of Technology
 
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Dag
    Stenberg, Univ of Helsinki, Finland) writes: 
    
    |>necessary. An American looks very badmannered in Europe, eating with the
 
    In Norway there are a lot of stories of American tourists dining at
    Norwegian hotels with "koldtbord" (Self-service with dousins of
    dishes). Americans tend to try to get as many of the dishes as possible
    on the plate. This gives combinations like smoked salmon with
    "r�mmegraut" (Sour cream porrigde?) and two or three deserts all mixed
    together. If a Norwegian had done this it would have been considered 
    bad manners. 
 
    =======================================================================
    Oystein Groevlen 
    Division of Computer Science and Telematics
    Norwegian Institute of Technology
    Email: [email protected]
    =======================================================================

>  Re: .3
>  	'Var s� god' does mean 'be so kind' if you translate it
>  directly. The three words together do however mean 'you are
>  welcome.'

Uh oh, an idiomatic usage; the bane of language beginners everywhere.

Several weeks back, I was eating in a local restaurant and overheard
a waitress trying to explain to one of the cooks (who was apparently
newly arrived from some country whose language sounded like, but was not
Spanish) the use of the phrase 'You kill me' when used in the context of joke
telling.  Apparently, the cook from ? had told a rather ineptly delivered
joke and gotten this laconic response (without a smile) from one of his
coworkers.  When the cook protested (in all seriousness) that it was joke and
not a threat, the waitress had to explain the (admittedly pellucid) usage to
him.  He did finally get his laughs though. :-)

Anything like that we should know about Swedish ?

So how does one (politely) broach a conversation in Sweden ?

Surely, Swedes must engage in lengthy conversations in SOME social contexts;
it seems they could not have otherwise created such an eminently sensible
society.

Are there signals that a Swede might be willing to engage in a conversation ?
Others that they wish to politely disengage ?

    re .22 and .23
    
    "V�r s� god" (Norw spelling) has an additional and very important
    meaning; problem is that there is no real English equivalent. It is
    what you say when giving someone something, or when serving something
    (e.g., indicating "you can all begin eating now"). Scandinavians who
    are frustrated at this missing phrase in English, often mis-translate
    it to "please" (which they pronounce "pleece" for good measure). The
    possible reason for this is that in German, the word "bitte" means both
    "v�r s� god" (pronounced like one word "vashogoo") AND "please".
    
    One way to translate this into English is to use the phrase "bon
    apetite", but that sounds rather afffected. It is better to do as the
    native Anglo-saxons---accept the fact that there is no such single
    pharase and use a variety of phrases, each for its own situation:
    
     Dinner is served
     Help yourself
     "Next!" (Bank teller indicating next person in line)
     May I help you? (store clerk to customer)
     ... (etc)
    
    On starting a conversation? How about the Weather. No, don't laugh.
    This is not considered quite the clich� that it is in English &
    American usage (another cultural difference). There is nothing funny
    about the weather, and it often IS something to talk about.
    
    Now the problem really is how to move on FROM talking about the
    weather. We will now leave you in suspense on that one; to be continued
    in episode 2.
    
    Mauritz
    

    Re: .24 by OSL09::MAURITZ:
    
    No need to leave out the "Please".  Your discussion strunk a cord going
    back some 28 years when my Swedish homestay hostess had the same
    problem of translating V..god.  After we discussed it, she solved the
    problem by simply adding something specific.  For example, to indicate
    we should all begin eating our dinner, she said, "Please, to eat." 
    Now, I know that's not idiomatically correct English, but she so liked
    my expression when she said it that way, she rarely ever corrected it.
    [She rejected "Help yourself" - too cold and impersonal for her as I
    recall.] 
    
    Similarly, the bank teller could say, "Next, please."

    From: [email protected]
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: Questions for Norwegians
    Date: 9 Jul 91 10:09:25 GMT
    Sender: [email protected] (Mr News)
    Organization: USIT/University of Oslo
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
    writes:
 
 >I've often wondered what it would be like to visit Norway. Can anyone give me
 >an idea what it might be like for an American? I don't speak Norwegian, but I
 >could probably learn a little. I do look fairly Norwegian--I base that on
 >the fact that I vaguely resemble some of the members of Ah-Ha! 8^)
 >And I am a brooding, depressing person some of the time, which is a common
 >(mis-?)conception some Americans have of Scandinavians.
 
    What's the problem? You seem somewhat reluctant to visit ANY country,
    anticipatin negative reactions. First of all, start asking yourself
    some OTHER questions; like, how will they react to ME (if that's
    important to you). I think the answer depends on who you ARE and what
    cultural stereotypes of americans and norwegians you bring along in
    your backpack (my advice, travel light!). 
 
    Unless you're really serious about getting back to your roots and all
    that stuff, forget about the language. Try to connect with people in
    YOUR native language; don't think you will have problems finding people
    who understand you (at least not under 40). Norwegian you can learn
    later, if you decide to come back.  
 
  >In particular, I wonder what is the attitude most Norwegians have toward
  >American tourists? How tolerable are they of English speaking persons?
  >And are there any outstanding cultural differences I should be aware of?
 
    If you go around thinking about yourself as "an american tourist", stay
    at home! Try to relate to "us" as a fellow human being. Any stereotypes
    we have (not denying their existence), will soon be overshadowed by our
    reaction to YOU and who YOU are. Similarly, if you look upon us as
    "norwegians", you will miss out on all of our INDIVIDUAL uniqueness. 
 
    Look, I realize this sounds rather idealistic, and it is. But I've been
    around  :-) and have found that the biggest barrier to understanding
    and friendship is not in the culture I'm visiting, but in MY MIND and
    in the ATTITUDE I have towards "what-have-you-ians". Please try to be
    yourself; I've meet enough americans to last a lifetime, but I have not
    had the pleasure of meeting YOU (yet). Welcome to Norway.
                                                             

    Norwegians, and Americans as well as all the others are all members of
    the human race.
    
    If you are yourself, and not crude, I think you can get by almost
    anywhere.  I went to an Island near Bergen in 1960, I had a berlitz
    book that the U.S. Navy provided, and I could not properly pronounce
    any phrase, I did okay, considering, I pointed to a phrase in the book
    and the Children were wonderful, they were learning English in school,
    and not a one of them could communicate with me, however they did
    understand I spoke English, and they took me to the postmaster. (the
    only person on the Island, who could speak english.)  I would like to
    return and thank these kind people.
    
    However, I probably could not ever find any of them.  
    
    Do not worry so much, people are just people.  Be kind, and you will be
    treated kindly.
    
    Enjoy the adventure, I did.  
    
    Dave

    Hi!
    
    In September I will have the pleasure of vacationing in Oslo for one
    week. I am eager to get an understanding of some of the basic social
    customs and behaviours so that I don't appear abrasive, uncaring,
    or stereotypically the borish American. I would appreciate receiving as 
    much information as possible regarding:
    
    		Socially accepted behaviour
    		Key phrases I should know how to speak in Norwegian
    		Any particular social graces expected of a lady
    		As I will be a guest in someone's home are there
    		any traditions regarding showing my appreciation
    		for the hospitality (the last thing I want to do
    		is offend my host)
    		What are some of the "hot topics" of conversation
    		these days in Norway..political, cultural etc?
    		Anything else you think I should know :-).
         	Some good "local" spots for meeting people?!!
    
    I have done a fair amount of traveling in foreign countries. However
    I know nothing about Norway or the Scandanvian countries in general.
    I have the basics down pat...treat people with some dignity, courteousy
    and respect and you'll probably get by quite nicely...:-)
    
    Please reply to my mail account. Your help is very much appreciated.
    
    Ann
    

    Ann,
    
    My first reaction to your question is that you probably have nothing to
    worry about, since you are asking the type of questions you are to
    begin with. IOW, your question already implies a basic attitude of
    consideration and courtesy on your part---with that as a platform, you
    really can't do much wrong.
    
    My other reaction (if I were to render advice at all) would be not to
    try to act in any special way (I shudder to use the time-worn clich�,
    "just be yourself", but I guess that covers it). The reasons for this, I
    will state as follows (IMHO). There is a larger span of individual
    differences between Norwegian persons than there is between an
    "average" Norwegian and an "average" American (assuming you can
    conceive of those two artificial creatures). This means that it is
    rather difficult to guess at what types of personality your hosts would
    have. 
    
    Another point, is that Americans are not in general considered
    "boorish" here, possibly because of the categories of Americans one
    sees the most (and least) of, to wit, most prevalent being a) Tourists
    on the somewhat mature side and often of higher than average income
    (our prices keep others away---regrettably, I think) b) Businessmen c)
    Visitors akin to type a, who are 2d, 3d, nth generation Norwegin-
    Americans d) Academics, students, etc (Oslo area) e) Other
    professionals, e.g., with oil companies (mainly Stavanger area). As
    there have never been American military bases here, there has not been
    any significant amount of soldiers, etc.
    
    All in all, the most common "sterotype" of the American tourist tends
    to be elderly ladies with "blue-dyed hair", perhaps travelling in
    groups. The other being nth generation N-A's tracing their ethnic
    roots.
    
    Another related point on Scandinavians in general, given that you seem
    to have experience with travelling in many other places: You will
    probably find that Scandinavians are more similar to Americans than
    most of the other nationalities that you have had experience with.
    
    Notwithstanding the above, I would mention one particular point that
    could cause some misunderstanding on your part in interpreting
    Norwegian (also applies to Swedish & Finnish---perhaps not Danish)
    behaviour. In general, behaviour is less extrovert (call it "low-key",
    reserved or what have you) than most other people; perhaps especially
    compared to Americans, but also compared to people like British &
    Germans (not to mention those of even more southern climes). This can
    sometimes erroneously be experienced by others as "unfriendliness" or
    "arrogance" in its extreme forms. It is neither; it is just that "body
    language" here tends to be more muted. (You tell a funny joke and the
    reaction is a polite smile rather than a bellowing laugh---don't be
    dejected, they may have enjoyed it just the same. The problem is, how
    do you tell? The answer? Beats me. Just don't assume a negative
    reaction).
    
    As to topics of conversation? As mentioned earlier, this would be as
    variable between individuals here as there. Being very general, in the
    political area, you will find an interest in many of the various
    international events (Soviet economic problems, Yugoslavia, etc.). Most
    people were pro-US with respect to the Gulf War, but they (quite
    naturally) were not as emotionally involved & enthusastic as Americans
    seem to have been; perhaps seeing more tragedy in retrospect in these
    events than the results of a glorious crusade. However, if you want to
    be prepared for a topic that will get a somewhat more heated discussion
    going, try "do you think Norway should join the EC?". If you want to be
    slightly prepared, read a bit up on the EC and EFTA negotiations for the
    creation of a European Economic Space (Norwegian initials E�S).
    Opinions on the EC are divided to say the least, and can be emotional.
    You then have the luxury of being an innocent bystander, but a willing
    listener to various arguments for and against (ranging from the
    rediculous to the sublime). You could flatter people by being somewhat
    knowledgeable. (We have local elections coming up in September, you
    might be here then---the issues, however, will be dominated by EC
    relations, since our local elections are party-based and often reflect
    national opinions). At last count I think we had 13 parties, from the
    far right (sort of like American Republicans) to left wing Communists.
    BTW, environmental issues tend to loom large here.
    
    That's my off the cuff comments on a boring Thursday morning---hope
    they are of some use.
    
    Mauritz
    

    From: [email protected] (Lars Engebretsen)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: various excuse me in swedish
    Date: 23 Jun 92 16:08:36 GMT
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet)
    Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Festen RHT) writes:
    
    >Two words I know in swedish for 'excuse me/sorry', being
    >    F�rl�t
    >and Urs�kta.
    >My question: how are they used (if they ARE correct and still used)?
 
    They are still correct and still used, but perhaps not often enough.
 
    >I mean:
    >1) If I bumped into or spilt my drink over someone, what do I say?
    >2) If I want to pass someone or want someone's attention, what do I say?
    >
    >In english, I'd probably say, respectively
    >1) I am (terribly) sorry.
    >2) Excuse me.
 
    In Swedish you should say:
    1. F�rl�t
    2. Urs�kta
 
    Roughly speaking, "f�rl�t" is used when one has already caused harm or
    done something awful. "Urs�kta" is used when one is about to do
    something that is slightly impolite (for example pass someone) or when
    one wants someones attention.
 
    "F�rl�t" can also be extended to "F�rl�t, det var inte meningen" (which
    means "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to") or something equivalent.
 
    /Lars Engebretsen, [email protected]

    From: [email protected] (Per-Erik Martin)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: American wants to know Nordic impressions of Americans +
	Scandinivians
    Date: 18 Jul 92 01:05:00 GMT
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: Student
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Ed Aguado) writes:
 
  >I was only partly successfuly, but got the impression that most 
  >Scandinavians are very open people (that is they let you know exactly what 
  >they think).

    Hmm... doesn't this contradict your statement about swedes below? ;-)
 
  >              I got the feeling also that Swedes are not widely loved 
  >outside of Sweden (sorry if I am opening up some wounds) and that Danes are 
  >pretty much a happy-go-lucky, carefree people.

    Hmm... this is a popular myth. I haven't noticed this (being from
    sweden), except in Copenhagen, where I met quite a few sour, and even
    obnoxious danes. Of course, our neighbors have always been a bit
    jealous on Sweden, the "big brother" in Scandinavia... :-)  (Oops, will
    I get flamed to pieces now?)
 
    Which brings me to a general remark I wanted to make: Never judge a
    country or it's people from the capital city. This holds for all
    countries I have visited, and I think it goes for the rest... Actually,
    I think you can say the same about any large, dominating city in a
    country (like New York for instance).
 
  >                                           Furthermore, it seems very 
  >difficult to get a Swede to engage in a conversation with a stranger.


    I'm not sure this was the case in your experiences, but from my own
    experiences I've noticed that inability or reluctance to speak a
    foreign language like english is often mistaken for being shy, quiet,
    even anti- social.

    Especially english speaking people sometimes don't seem to appreciate
    the difficulties of learning and speaking a foreign language, and seem
    to expect everyone to speak english.

    I guess the Scandinavian coutries can be a bit confusing to a foreigner
    in this regard. Most scandinavians are very good at languages,
    especially english. After a few first impressions a foreigner
    mistakenly expects everyone to speak fluent english, which of course
    they don't. Even young people may understand english quite well, but
    are very uncomfortable when it comes to speaking. (Lack of training
    mostly.) Many elderly people speak no english at all.
 
    But apart from this, you may be right. Swedes (and Norwegians, Finns,
    etc. I haven't noticed any difference there) don't usually engage in
    shallow chatting with strangers. As you pointed out, we let you know
    what we think, but on the other hand, if we don't have anything to say,
    we keep quiet. Swedes are not made uncomfortable by silence, something
    that's not always the case with Americans I think.
 
  >Some more things.  Sweden seems to have a large influx of southern Europeans 
  >and north Africans as immigrants.  Are they blending in well and warmly 
  >received?

    I wonder where in Sweden you have been. North Africans are a very minor
    group of immigrants. There are some southern Europeans, but most of
    them came during the 60:ies and early 70:ies. There was a flow of south
    Americans many years ago as well, but I doubt either group is a major
    part of the immigrants. The largest groups nowadays are from the middle
    east and Turkey, and right now, former Yugoslavia.

    And no, you can't really say they are blending in well and are warmly
    recieved. There are problems with cultural differences. But it's not as
    bad as the media tries to put it. The racists are mainly very few and
    unorganized, compared to contries like France for instance, and at a
    personal level most swedes seem to get along with immigrants very well.
    (Note: I'm talking refugees here. The by far largest group of (true)
    immigrants are from our neighboring countries.)
 
  >Finally, how are Americans viewed as people and tourists?

    Well, you're asking for it... >:-)  Americans are loud, shallow, fat,
    behaves like they own the place wherever they are and wear outrageous
    shirts. That's the popular myth. To my experience it's sometimes true
    about american tourists (although I haven't met many american tourists
    in Sweden, but I saw a lot of them in USA.)
 
    Seriously, I have found most americans to be very friendly and polite,
    and easy to get along with. To start with. I've found it harder to
    really get to know an american and become a closer friend. Incidently,
    an american I did know years ago, said the opposite about swedes... He
    found, as did you apparently, it hard to get close to swedes first. But
    when he did, he found some very good life-long friends. It seems
    americans are very easy-going and friendly to start with, but it's not
    much to it, while swedes are very careful in the beginning, which is
    often taken as being cold.

    Perhaps it's some cultural difference that makes it hard for us to
    understand each other socially? (Btw, again I think this holds for
    scandinavians, not only swedes.)
 
    A serious opinion about american tourists: They complain a lot. About
    the weather, the prices (rightly so in Sweden), the service, and
    generally if it's not as back home... At the same time, they're very
    evasive and polite if you ask them outright about what they think about
    Sweden, the people, the food or whatever. ("Oh, it's nice", etc.) A bit
    of a paradox, isn't it?
 
 
    That's all for now!
 
			~pem
 
    (As always, all opinions and gross generalizations are my own, and
    no-one elses. Who did you think wrote this, anyway? Hmm... I think I'm
    gonna hike down to Prague or something, it's a sure sign I'm being
    bored when I'm writing long rambling news articles in the middle of the
    night... :-)
 
  --
   |\/|\/|\/| Per-Erik Martin,
   |  |  |/\| Department of Computer Systems, Uppsala University,
   |/\|  |  | Email: [email protected]

    From: [email protected] (Tomas Eriksson)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Date: 19 Jul 92 14:57:23 GMT
    Sender: [email protected] (Usenet)
    Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
 
    [Text discussing impression of tourist behavior (removed)]

    ... 

    Going back to the tourists from the USA, I think that Statoil has 
    produced a rather funny TV commercial about US tourists. You see a bus 
    full of US senior citizen, with a Norwegian speaker talking about 
    statues of various poets along the road. Instead, the americans take 
    photos of McDonalds, Seven-Eleven and so on. Finally, the speaker says 
    "We'll stop at the Statoil station to refuel" and is met by the
    question  "Statoil, is that American?". (Hesitating) "Yes, it's
    American" followed  by cheering from the tourists... :-)
 
 
Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          [email protected]
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quotation of the week (29), from "The Devil's Disciple" by G. B. Shaw:
	"Swindon: What will History say?
	 Burgoyne: History, sir, will tell lies as usual."

   Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
   From: [email protected] (Torkel Franzen)
   Subject: Re: Norden > Scandinavia (Was: The Saami languages which are Nordic)
   Sender: [email protected]
   Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
   Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 21:42:44 GMT
 
 
    There are striking similarities between Japanese and Swedish, in lots
    of little things. For example, in an introduction to Japanese for
    speakers of English we read that "when meeting your host next time, it
    is customary to acknowledge the favour again by saying Yuube [senjitsu]
    wa gochisoosama deshita (thank you for last night's [the other day's]
    meal), something that is easily forgotton by us Westerners as we do not
    have such a custom". 
                                                                   
    In Swedish, though, there are corresponding phrases, and it's
    interesting to note that the whole concept of politeness in Japanese as
    being a matter of indirectness and leaving options open is quite
    similar to what used to be very much a part of Swedish. Once one gets
    to notice this, all sorts of similarities appear, down to such matters
    as the differences between "ii desu" and "yokatta desu" in Japanese,
    and "det �r bra" och "det var bra" in Swedish. Hence my scientific
    conclusion that Swedish is a variety of Japanese or conversely.

    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: [email protected] (Susan F Bradley)
    Subject: Re: Icelandair 
    Sender: [email protected] (USENET News System)
    Organization: W.E.N.C.H. -- IOWA STATE UNIV
    Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 17:41:04 GMT
 
 
    A great airline.  Upon finding all of my money and my return trip
    ticket stolen at a youth hostel in London, the ONLY people who helped
    me in any way were the folks at Icelandair.  The American Embassy &
    American Church both answered my pleas for help with, "What do you
    expect us to do about it?"

    When the woman at Icelandair found out what had happened and the
    reaction I'd gotten from the embassy & church, she sat me down, got me
    a cup of coffee and box of tissues (I was hysterical at that point -
    there were a few other factors adding to my distress and I had had
    nothing to eat for 3 days), got on the phone and after a 5 minute
    conversation with someone in Icelandic, she wrote out another ticket
    for me.  Since London-Chicago was not a regular flight for them (I'd
    flown Chicago-Luxembourg), I had to spend @ 22 hrs. in Reykjavik so she
    gave me vouchers for a hotel room, 3 meals and a sightseeing tour.  I
    tried to give her my address in the US, so that they could send me a
    bill for the room, etc., but she refused to take it.  "It's the least
    we can do for you" she said.  She then gave me 10 pounds so that I
    could get something to eat and get myself out to Heathrow.

    After I was back in the US, I wrote a letter addressed to the president
    of the company telling him what  had happened and, again, offering to
    pay for the hotel room & everything.  He wrote back to say that they
    were sorry that I had had such a terrible  experience and that they
    were only happy that they were able to help in some "small" way (My
    quotation marks). 
 
    Perhaps no one is interested in this, but I wanted to take the
    opportunity to let people know about it.  They earned my undying
    gratitude, so I think I owe it to them to try to give them some PR when
    possible.
 
 
 
  -- 
  Sooz Bradley                     You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd,    
  W.E.N.C.H.                        But you can be happy if you've a mind to. 
  ISU chapter president               ---Roger Miller                          

 From: [email protected] (Rolf Marvin B�e Lindgren)
 Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
 Subject: Re: "Hello" in Norweggian
 Date: 6 Aug 93 14:37:55
 Organization: Det samfunnsvitenskapelige fakultet, Universitetet i Oslo, Norge
 
    In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
    (Karl Tombre) writes:

   > Hei is used a lot in Norway, just as Hi in America. Most of the time,
   > Norwegians don't even bother asking you how you are doing. "Hei" is
   > enough for them...

    Oh, but �Hei� litterally translates into �How are you�, �How ya doin'�,
    etc. 
 
    A Norwegian doesn't excpect an answer to the statment �Hei�, just a
    return of the phrase. Just as with the American equivalents.
 
   --
   -roffe
   [email protected]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: [email protected] (Raul Izahi Lopez Hernandez)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: "Hello" in Norweggian
    Date: 7 Aug 1993 22:37:34 GMT
    Organization: Stanford University Alum
 
    True, USians seem to say "How are you doing" (Howdya doin') or
    something similar and do not really mean trying to find out how you
    are. I used to actually ask Norwegians how they were doing "Hvordan
    gaar det med deg?" (not generally used for haircuts :) ) and got a
    puzzled look in response then a coy "Baret bra" which was the "pretty
    good, pretty good" of some Californians, but maybe in both cases they
    had just been fired from work, had their cars stolen, their houses (or
    churches) arsoned, and had had a Mexican meal that was too hot just
    before...

						RAUL IZAHI
 
 --
 -----------------> Solely responsible for my writings <----------------------
 Raul Izahi Lopez Hernandez | Jeg liker Norge! Har du vaert i Norge? 
 [email protected]    | GUADALAJARA - PALO ALTO - BERGEN

    From: Espen J. Vestre <[email protected]>
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    Subject: Re: NORWAY - What do foreigners believe?
    Date: 29 Sep 1993 08:41:17 GMT
    Organization: Computerlinguistik, Universitaet des Saarlandes
 
 >           *    I think Norwegians are unpretentious, direct and
 >           down-to-earth, very much like their cousins in the USA.  I
 >           like that very much.  On the flip side, this
 >           unpretentiousness can sometimes translate into rudeness
 
    I don't think you're quite right here.  I think the unprentiousness
    often may be mistaken as directness, but actually I know foreigners who
    are frustrated by the _indirectness_ of Norwegians.  From a
    professional point of view, I observe indications of this in the high
    use of negatively posed questions and modal expressions ("maybe") in
    Norwegian language use (this is just a personal observation, it's not
    based on any empirics).  Actually, many foreigners I know have had
    problems with their own directness in Norway: Norwegians often consider
    them either naive of annoying.
 
 >           using "Please" and "Thank You" regularly or NOT pushing
 
    politeness is just _different_.  Foreigners often make jokes about all
    the "thank you"s which you usually use in Norway ("takk for maten, takk
    for meg, takk for igaar, takk for sist, ...").
 
 ________________________________________________________________________
  Espen J. Vestre,                                  [email protected]
  Universit�t des Saarlandes,
  Computerlinguistik, Geb�ude 17.2
  Postfach 1150,                                 tel. +49 (681) 302 4501
  D-66041 SAARBR�CKEN, Germany                   fax. +49 (681) 302 4351

  From: [email protected] (Ruth Sylte)
  Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
  Subject: Re: common courtesies
  Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 13:03:57
  Organization: University of California, Irvine
 
    To quote from BYU's Culturgram on Norway:
 
    VISITING

    When visiting a home for the first time, it is customary to bring a
    gift of  flowers, sweets, or other small token of appreciation to the
    hosts.  Guests  wait to be shown in by the host, who traditionally
    helps them remove their  coasts as a gesture of hospitality.  Guests
    also wait until they are invited  to sit down.  Not everyone, of
    course, adheres to the rules of formal  etiquette. It is considered in
    poor taste to leave directly after dinner.   Personal privacy is
    important:  topics such as income and social status are  avoided in
    casual conversation.
 
    EATING

    Guests do not start eating until everyone is seated and the host
    invites them to begin. The continental style of eating is followed,
    with the fork in the left hand and knife remaining in the right.  It is
    impolite to leave any food on the plate.  At the end of the meal,
    whether in casual or formal situations, the hostess who prepared or is
    responsible for the meal should be thanked. Indeed, children are told
    to say "takk for maten" (Thank you for the food) before leaving the
    table.  Hands are kept above the table during the meal...The main meal
    of the day is eaten around 5:00 p.m.
 
    GESTURES

    It is impolite to yawn without covering the mouth.  It is common to
    offer a seat on public transportation to a woman or elderly person. 
    Courtesy and good behavior are important in all cases.
 
    GENERAL ATTITUDES

    Tolerance, human kindness, and independence are important Norwegian
    ideals. Criticism of other peoples or systems is considered
    inappropriate. Norwegians take great pride in their individual and
    national independence. Sincerity in friendship is very important, but
    reserve should be shown in the expression of personal feelings. 
    Neighbors, even in large cities, get along very well and usually
    consider each other close friends.  Punctuality is very important.  
    Norwegians generally do not appreciate seemingly unfavorable
    comparisons, such as "In the United States, we do it this way..." 
    Social equality and a good standard of living are important values that
    have shaped post-World War II  politics.  The Norwegians also love the
    outdoors and work to protect their environment.  Peace and progress are
    themes common in Norway...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ruth M. Sylte         [email protected] |
 International Opportunities Program  | "If you think education is
  Center for International Education  |    expensive, try ignorance."
   University of California, Irvine   |               - William Bennett
     Irvine, CA  92717-2476   USA     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------

   From: [email protected] (PC Jorgensen)
   Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
   Subject: Re: common courtesies
   Date: Fri, 08 Apr 1994 00:39:30 +0900
   Organization: University of Oslo
 
    > VISITING
 
    Chocholate and other sweets packed in nice boxes (konfekt) is usually
    the safest bet. And an ideal gift for the self-interested, as the
    host(s) very often open the box at some time during the visit and
    proceed to share the goodies... :-)
 
    Flowers is not always the ideal gift for a Norwegian bachelor, who
    might get a bit flustered (if he is of the traditional "men buy
    flowers, but only women receive them" variety). That is, cut flowers.
    Flower pots carry less stigma, but cacti are downright "macho". :-)
  
   >Neighbors, even in large cities, get along very well and 
   >usually consider each other close friends.
 
    This, I'm less sure about!
 
    If the BYU means Brigham Young University, I now understand why young
    Mormon missionaries show far better Norwegian-style manners than the 
    average "Osloboer".... :-(
 
  -- 
  PC J�rgensen
  Hovedfagsstudent
  Russisk 
  Institutt for �steuropeiske og Orientalske Studier
  HF, UiO

   Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic              
   From: [email protected] (Stan Brown)
   Subject: Presumption of honesty: Nordic countries 
   Date: Sat, 28 May 1994 18:09:37 GMT
   Organization: (been there, done that)
 
    Some things were obvious to me from my recent trip that told me I
    wasn't in America any more.  
 
    I left a hotel discount card on the shelf in a luggage room for five
    hours; it was still there when I returned, even though it didn't have
    my name on it and anyone _could_ have taken it and used it.
 
    The customs line at the airport was split in three: EU citizens, others
    with goods to declare, others with nothing to declare.  Since I fell in
    the third category, I followed the green line and suddenly found myself
    outside the airport without ever seeing a customs agent.  I find it
    hard to imagine such an honor system in the U.S.A.
 
    In Vejle, Denmark, I was transferring from train to bus for Legoland.
    My friend and I had bought a bottle each of beer at a gas station a few
    blocks away, and then discovered that the kiosk at the bus station sold
    only soft drinks.  I asked if she could accept my empty beer bottle.
    She said "Certainly", and slid Kr 1 across the counter to me.  My
    friend had not finished drinking his beer, but she gave him Kr 1 also,
    and said "Just bring me the bottle when you've finished."  
 
    These examples could me multiplied by a thousand.  The Nordic countries
    seem to be founded on a much more trusting basis than the U.S., or at
    least the parts of the U.S. where I've lived.  Nothing is absolute: I'm
    sure there are suspicious people in dk/no/se/fi just as there are
    trusting people in the usa.  But the ambience was totally different
    over there: there still seemed to be some civility, even in the largest
    cities, that is all too rare in the U.S.
 
    One more example: In Copenhagen and Stockholm and Oslo and Bergen, you
    tell the conductor (or the machine) on public transit how far you're
    going, and you are charged accordingly.  But when you leave the bus or
    tram or train, there's no verification that you're getting off where
    you said you would.  In the U.S., for example the Washington DC Metro,
    you have to punch in and out of the system.  The Nordic system is set
    up on the assumption that people are mostly honest; the U.S. system is
    set up on the assumption that most people are _both_ dishonest _and_
    too stupid to evade the controls.  One guess which place I find more
    attractive to live in.
 
    Just for the record: I'm a U.S.citizen and have lived in the U.S. all
    my life, so I'm not criticizing from outside.  My recent trip was my
    first to Scandinavia, but won't be my last.

  -- 
  Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems                    [email protected]
  Can't find FAQ lists?  ftp to 'rtfm.mit.edu' and look in /pub/usenet
  (or email me >>> with valid reply-to address <<< for instructions).
  I can also send "newbie" information on Usenet--just ask if you want it.

    To: International Swedish Interest discussion list 
    <[email protected]>
    
    One of the clear feelings we had coming from Sweden and settling
    (temporarily) in the USA, was a feeling of overwhelm. People would come
    on to us, not with aggressive advertising about products, but also
    private people about more private issues.  For example, when people
    heard that we were looking for a church to attend reguarly, several
    Americans who are active in various congregations really tried hard to
    convince us to come to their church and right away wanted to get us
    involved in all sorts of activities.
    
    Another issue that has come up now and then is the way in which
    Americans are tought to present themselves when looking for jobs or
    interviewing for schools. It's very clear that while Swedes are used to
    state facts about their skills in a humble way, Americans are more used
    to emphasize their characteristic strengths/skills, and sometimes they
    even do it in an not accurate way, i.e. a little overstated, a little
    exaggerated, a little too proudly. I believe that somewhere in between
    those two styles is the Golden Way.
    
    Partying is another culturally different thing. While Swedish people
    will try to get to a party/dinner at the exact time, Americans are
    usually late, and apparently they are expected to be late (I remember
    when we first went to a dinner and arrived at the given time and the
    hostess as still in the shower, obviously not expecting the guests to
    be on time...).
    
    The amount of home made things vs. bought products is also different at
    receptions/parties. When I had to entertain for the first time in the
    US, I asked an American friend if there were any special codes of
    conduct for such occasions and she only laughed... You see, when I
    first moved to Sweden and was invited to a coffee party, I didn't know
    that it was not polite to take small cakes before the pastries
    (smaakakor before vetebroed). But afterwards I heard the ladies in the
    village talking... I was very grateful when I was introduced to all
    those small cultural secrets - old films were of great help, by the
    way. Also, in Sweden one is always expected to thank for the food after
    a meal, but also to "thank for latest" (tack foer senast) the next time
    you speak to the host/hostess. American peoplehave reacted in puzzle
    when we practice that here. On the other hand, here it's very common to
    send notes by mail, even to people you meet regularly.
    
    Well, one learns as long as one lives!...
    
    Yael Tagerud
                   

    Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
    From: [email protected] (Magnus Gunnarsson)
    Sender: [email protected]
    Organization: University of Vaxjo, Sweden
    Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 15:35:13 GMT
 
 
    'Hej d�': 'Bye' 
 
    'Adj�' : 'Goodbye', very formal
 
    'Vi ses' : 'See you later'
 
    'Vi syns': 'See you'
 
    'Vi h�rs': "Hear you", like 'See you', but on the phone.
 
    'Farv�l': 'Farewell', about as arcaic and formal
 
    'P� �terseende'	: 'See you again', but formal.
 
    'Dra �t helvete!': 'Go to hell', but used as '[Piss] off'. Very good
     when you're angry.
 
 
    Closing letters are, like in English, a bit different. In formal
    letters, 'Med v�nlig h�lsning' or 'V�nligen' are quite common, and the
    usual ending on postcards is 'H�lsningar'. In informal letters you can
    use basically anything; among the more common are 'Kram' (= 'Hug'. You
    and/or the recipent should be female.), 'Ha det bra' (= 'Be well') and
    'Vi ses'.  'Puss och kram'	(= 'A kiss and a hug') is affectionate, and
    so is 'Din v�n' (= 'Your friend'). Use with caution...  '
  
 
	Magnus Gunnarsson!

    From: Richard Matteson <[email protected]>
    To: "International Swedish Interest discussion list"
    
    Like parts of the US, Sweden has localities that differ considerably
    from each other, yet one can easily move between them . Easily , as
    long as one is a good observer. Naturally if you happen to be a fairly
    laid back type and yet friendly you have it made in almost any
    country!!
    
    My wife and I have been to Sweden three times - one time to travel
    about and find relatives.  The other time to visit those relatives
    (many!) and relatives of our friends(one family ) and the third time to
    sing with a group touring,... and Sweden was on the tour (and hosting a
    choral conference). We went a week early and went back to Gestrickland
    and visited relatives. So, perhaps we have some insights into (those
    things proper!) especially in Northern Sweden, though the differences
    are fairly small. I always felt that being informal was ok.  Even
    joking will fly as long as there is some self-depreciation shown!
    
    My Swedes loved to hold roadside conferences and change plans  -
    slowly. They do love to have foreign guests in their homes - especially
    long lost kind!  They also love their coffee and what I learned to
    respond to as a child -- "Boo-Las" (sweet rolls). Therefore, if you
    visit 6 homes in a day you will be somehow expected to be ravenously
    hungry for another session of fattening, but absolutely delicious
    breads and rolls and the like! I surely gained 5 lbs in that week!  But
    I held up the family honor and dug right in at all "boo-la" stops!  My
    wife would catch my eye and roll hers discretely. Little did she know
    that, as I was growing up and helping on my aunt's farm in IL, the
    haying would simply stop at 10 am and all would drink hot coffee in the
    sun and stuff down all rolls and things in sight! Of course, huge lunch
    was 2 hours later...one must eat! Also one must get ready for the 4
    o'clock coffee break, and etc.!! However , I was always thin...then.
    
    Many swedes still make a lot of the things they wear and use.  A great
    deal of pride there.  We found our relatives getting ready for a
    traditional dance in my great grandmother's home town near Sandviken.
    Gilbert had made all the metal buttons for his Ockelbo town traditional
    costume. He also made all buckles, clasps and stays and the like and
    even cut the appropiate cloth patterns(brown and grey striped wool
    material). Wife Doret sewed everything together and measured ans
    changed things until they fit!  Her own outfit was glorious.  We
    video-taped the layouts and asked many questions and got involved as
    possible.  They always remember that time we "took". That Xmas we got a
    fine traditional basket they had made and many other smaller items -
    all authentically Gestrickland - WE took pictures of how we displayed
    them in our home and sent a copys to them. Again that seemed to be just
    the thing that pleased them the most. Hands on and Curiosity and Wit
    and Praise (restrained) and Awe (real) win the day.  Pressure to do
    things cause real retreat!
    
    They do not often attend churches.  They seem to prefer the newer style
    religions if they attend!  Churches get a regular portion of the taxes
    and oftimes are trying to find ways to spend - since few people attend. 
    The older churches are beautifully repaired and gleam about the
    countryside ...but few are in them (except to take visitors to ooh and
    Ah so we oohed and aahed)
    
    I think that most Swedes we met were almost shy about their lives and
    probably don't want odious comparisons with other "advanced" societies.
    However, after you are comfortable with a group you may be suprised how
    they square with the facts of modern life  and times.  They seem to
    have an ability to objectify tasks for their society in order for them
    to progress as a country.  From that WE surely can learn!
    
    They, above all, are very generous, and their ability to do the ethical
    and right thing is unchallanged.  We were buoyed up by these aspects of
    their character and, I hope, caused to more attend to the needs of
    poorer people and countries.  Many families have "adopted" refugee
    families from emperiled countries and actually adopted children who are
    very different from their large boned blue eyed blondness!  Well,  hope
    you just have a ball...sure you will!
    
    Dick Matteson (Mattsson) College Park MD