Conference turris::cooks

    Most extracts are alcohol based, except for rose water (I think).  You
    could use fruit juice instead of some of the liquid in a recipe, if the
    recipe originally used some fruity liqueur anyhow (Cointreau or
    something).  I don't think there is anything that tastes much like rum
    that has no alcohol in it, though.  So, if the recipe isn't going to
    work without the taste of rum or scotch or whiskey, I think I'd punt
    and make something else.  You can often use chicken broth or clam broth
    for sherry in cooking main dishes.  As part of dessert, you could try
    white grape juice (or even apple juice - I don't care for apple juice
    myself).  If you are trying to replace some old family favorite recipe,
    you will have to experiment to come up with something that tastes like
    what the family is expecting, without the alcohol.
    
    /Charlotte

    Don't you usually use much less of an extract than you would the
    liquor?  If so, the amount of alcohol in the extract may be tolerable.

It may not be safe to assume that even the tiny amount of alcohol in
most extracts is safe.

If the reason for the alcohol in the recipe is purely as a flavoring,
then a non-alcoholic substitute can work. Some health-food stores carry
them, and they're also available from commercial suppliers (though
sometimes only in large quantities). Also, some doctors (who treat
people for alcoholism, for example) can recommend suppliers.

If the alcoholic ingredient serves as more than just flavoring (such as
in sherbet recipes, where it lowers the freezing point to keep it from
getting icy), then you'll need to further adjust the recipe for that
factor, too. Often adding sugar will solve the problem (it has a
similar effect on some recipes as alcohol). If that would make it too
sweet, you could try sorbitol, which is not as sweet, and, in fact, is
a long-chain alcohol, but one which doesn't interact the same way as
ethanol with medications (but check with your doctor on this!). Or,
depending on the recipe, you could add some fat (such as corn oil).

What if you heat the beverage first in order to let the alchohol boil off? I read 
some where that alchohol evaporates out at 160 degrees F.

Scott

    I have a bottle of imitation rum extract.  It does not have
    any alcohol in it, as far as I can tell.
    
    Hmmmm....you could always set the liquor/alcohol on fire like
    they do for cherries jubilee or flambay???
    
    L

Re heating to evaporate off the alcohol, while this always sounds like
a reasonable idea, it may not be reliable enough if the requirement is
that there be *no* alcohol present.

Some friends who are recovering alcholics can detect the presence of
alcohol in ripe apples and barely fermenting fruits and juices (and
even in some rising yeast bread doughs).

There are non-alcoholic flavorings for exactly this reason: so that
people who have a critical need to avoid alcohol can safely do so
without having to guess. Unfortunately, I don't know of a good supplier
of small quantities. Perhaps a query to the moderator of one of the
alcoholism-related conferences would help.

By the way, re my reply in .3, I should have said that glycerine would
be a better substitute for alcohol than sorbitol in recipes where the
alcohol affects the texture, not just the flavor. Glycerine is probably
easier to find (but still, mostly from commercial suppliers).

re: .6, Mike

> Perhaps a query to the moderator of one of the
> alcoholism-related conferences would help.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mike. A moderator over there has graciously offered
to help. I'll try to include the substance of any suggestions I get if they
aren't crossposted here first.

-Jack

RE: Basenoter.

Be VERY careful what you use!  I once was on an antibiotic that was supposed to
be highly reactive to alcohol.  My doctor told me to avoid ALL foods that
contained ANY trace of alcohol, including any sauces that were COOKED or
UNCOOKED containing any alcohol.  I can't imagine what the reaction might have 
been, but I certainly was not going to try and find out.

-Nicki

    I was once prescribed a similar antibiotic, and was not even allowed to
    wear aftershave, as the reaction with the drug would cause vomitting.
    But I guess this isn't really appropriate for this conference, bye bye!
    
    Jon

This is probably off the conference purpose as well, but a friend in
the health professions once told me that antibiotics which react
adversely with alcohol normally do so by converting the alcohol to
formaldehyde which in turn induces nausea. I don't know if this is
the same type of reaction expected in the case of the family member
I alluded to in the basenote, who is taking neurological medication.
All I know is she's been warned not to ingest any alcohol.

-Jack

Ah, in that case, the response which suggested that you simply boil off
the alcohol content before adding to the recipe should be fine.

�Ah, in that case, the response which suggested that you simply boil off
�the alcohol content before adding to the recipe should be fine.
    
    I believe it has been shown that not all of the alcohol is removed by
    heating. 

Absolutely, which was why I advised against that approach in .6.
However Jack specifically stated in .10 (in the note title) that this
was already  tried and found to be acceptable.

It raises the question, though, that if you boil the spirits first, will they
still retain sufficient body/flavor/whatever to provide the effect that was
intended?

-Jack

    If you are thinking of entertaining a person who can't drink, for what
    ever reason including the disease of alcoholism, then may I suggest
    you just leave out the booze altogether.  Some recovering alcoholics
    aren't able to have even the taste of the liquer, even if there is no 
    alcohol in it, because of what it reminds them of.  It could trigger a
    recovering alcoholic into picking up a drink and since the disease of
    alcoholism is not a joke to anyone or is it a joke to the families of 
    those that have it then I suggest that you not play around with trying 
    to please your guests with boiled away alcohol recipes or near beer/wine 
    beverages.
    
    Near beer and wine have a 1/2 % of alcohol in them.
    
    
     

That's a good point (that, for example, an alcohol-free rum flavoring
may not be acceptable). One should never guess what would be ok for a
person with specific dietary restrictions, and one should never take
such requirements lightly.

In Jack's case, we know that sufficiently cooked sherry was acceptable,
both chemically and psychologically, so we can now consider whether
there would be a loss of flavor from boiling off the alcohol. The
answer is: in some cases the effect will be unacceptable. In many
cases, it will be noticeable, but acceptable. In many cases, it will be
unnoticeable.

Having prepared food with many categories of alcohol, both uncooked and
cooked, I would generalize by saying that wines change the most,
distilled spirits the least. This is probably related to the processes
by which they're made: distilled spirits have already been "cooked".
Except in very rare cases of a wine changing flavor to something
unacceptable when cooked, I would say that there's a very slim chance
of ruining a dish by first cooking the alcoholic liquid.

    .15 was one of THE best notes I've ever read in here.
    
    I agree 110% on every point.
    
    Too many people don't understand the disease of alcoholism and still
    think a little is o.k. - well its not o.k. not even the aroma.
    
    Joyce

    It might be worth noting that the legal definition of an alcohol-FREE
    beverage in the UK is <0.1% alcohol by volume. So it isn't necessarily
    alcohol-free and would not be suitable for the purposes required here.
    
    

Alcohol is present in trace quantities in every food which contains
carbohydrates. It's not possible to reduce the amount to zero.
Furthermore, different people have different sensitivities alcohol.

So what governments have chosen to do is pick some small value which
they believe will be satisfactory for almost all cases, and require
that the measured content be less than this. In most cases,
manufacturers take great care to ensure that their product contains
*much* less alcohol than the regulated amount. However, given the wide
variation in individual sensitivity, each person must be his/her own
final arbiter of which products are acceptable, and which aren't.

If you're preparing food for a person with dietary restrictions, don't
guess. Ask them what's acceptable and what's not.

>If you're preparing food for a person with dietary restrictions, don't
>guess. Ask them what's acceptable and what's not.
    
    That says it best.  Never assume, and never guess.
    
    					andrew