Conference turris::cooks

    
    
       I am particularly interested in the ones that don't require
    sharpening. 

    
    Good Knves that don't require resharpening???
    
    
    
    	$19.91, set, advirtized on T>V> mebe

    If it doesn't need sharpening then it is not a good set of knives.
    
    I have a set of Chicago Cutlery which I have had for years.  They
    require a sharpening once or twice a year as long as you use the steel
    on them every time you use them.  Well worth the price.
    
    Steve

    Well, if the Chicago Cutlery you're talking about has wooden handles then
    remember that the dishwasher will eventually destroy them and then you 
    end up with sharp blades and no handles.  That happened to us.
    
    I finally started a knife a week plan up at Lechmere, and got the 
    Henkels (spelling).
    
    Dishwasher doesn't bother them at all.  But I do have one that has a 
    cracked handle but I think there is a lifetime guarantee on them.
    
    
    Ferne
    

    Consumer Report liked the Chicago Cutlery walnut handles .. avail able
    at Spags (schoolouse) buy them as you can afford them or a whole set...
    Good knives never go in dishwasher.

    You don't say where you are but in Worcester on 661 Main St. there
    is a restaurant supply house, Caravan, Inc. which caters to the trade
    but will sell to the public at a discount.  They have a wall of knives.
    The things you get there will outlast regular store things because a
    business can't affoard to keep replacing items.  If you go on Saturday
    go in the morning because they close at noon.  Not open Sunday.  I got
    a 5 ft round table that colapses and was unavailable at a furniture
    store.  It was very reasonable.  They have spices too at reasonable
    prices but in 4 oz containers.  Might as well get your money's worth
    out of the trip.
    Kris
    

    you put your knives in the dishwasher!  Horrors!  Probably put
    napkins on the wrong side of the dinner plate too.
    
    :-)  :-)
    
    ed

    >Well, if the Chicago Cutlery you're talking about has wooden handles then
    >remember that the dishwasher will eventually destroy them and then you 
    >end up with sharp blades and no handles.  That happened to us.
    
    
    Yeee Gods Man!!!!! Never put a wooden handled knife in the dishwasher.
    Horror of Horrors!!!  8^)
    
    Wash by hand then oil the handle.  You will never regret the additional
    effort.
    
    
    Steve                    

    What is a good oil for the handles? Don't they feel greasy when you go
    to use them?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Lee

    Actually no they do not feel greasy.  Chicago Cutlery puts out an oil
    but when you stop and think about it any furniture oil will work.  I
    use vegetable oil.  All I do is put a little on my hands rub them
    together (hands) and then rub the handles of the knives.  This works
    great.  If they do feel greasy then don't oil them as much.
    
    Steve

I concur regarding the admonition against machine washing wooden handled
utensils.

Early in life I got a set of rosewood handled steak knives from my folks.
I still have them, but the handles are virtually ruined from having been
subjected to the dishwasher. I never machine wash any of my better cutlery.

Regarding never-sharpen cutlery, actually I've been kind of surprised
by the $19.95 TV special (although I bought it at the New York State Fair
a few years ago, and not from the TV offer :^). While I observe that they're
probably making one heck of a profit, and that it's by no stretch of the
imagination "fine cutlery", I still have to admit that the stuff is sharp as
hell, cuts like crazy, and pretty much does everything they say it will.
(Although I haven't been slicing aluminum cans, claw hammers, shoe leather
or marble with mine.)

-Jack

    I bought a set of Ginsu 2000 las year. It cam with 6 stake knives,1
    pearing knife,1 cleaver one utiliry knife and 1 chicken cutting knife.
    They are the best! I have never sharpened any of them and they were as
    good as the day I got them. I purchases mine brand new at a local fleam
    market for 30 dollars.
    
    Sandy

    
    
    	A mineral oil is often recommended for oiling knife handles and
    	cutting boards as it will not get ransid and affect the taste of
    	the food.  Many places which specialize in wooden kitchenware will
    	sell an oil made expressly for this purpose.
    
    

My recommendations:

If you prefer the convenience of washing knives in the dishwasher and
don't want to be bothered having to sharpen them, get any decent
serrated stainless knife. The Ginsu knives are fine; so are many
similar knives available at most departments stores (at about the same
price or less). These are perfecly suited for most cutting jobs, such
as fruits, vegetables, tomatoes, potatoes, etc. When old, they will
occasionally stumble at peeling soft fruits. You can resharpen them to
some extent with a steel. We have one which is about 15 years old, and
while it's no longer sharp enough to do many jobs, it's far from being
ready to throw out.

If you need a sharper knife for cutting meat, poultry, fish, and
chopping garlic and herbs, you'll have to get a knife with a good
ground edge which requires regular honing and occasional sharpening,
and which should not be washed in the dishwasher (both to preserve
wooden handles and to prevent the blades from getting nicked). The best
value is the Chicago Cutlery knives, especially if you can buy them at Spag's.

If you use knives A LOT and the balance and comfort of a knife make a
big difference in your control while doing difficult work, you'll need
a better knife than Chicago Cutlery. The Henckels, Wustoff, Sabatier,
and some other top quality knives provide this. My personal preference
is the Henckels. The Sabatier seem to hold an edge a tiny bit better
(highest carbon steel, most likely to stain). Any of these will require
the same level of care as the Chicago Cutlery knives.

We own some of each of the knives mentioned above, and use all of them
daily. I have no shame about using the "cheap" serrated knives quite
often. But when it's time to bone a chicken (which I do infrequently)
or chop garlic to paste in under a minute (which I do at least twice a
week), the Henckels knives come out.

    
    A good friend is interested in getting me some good knives for
    Christmas.  This particular friend is financially capable of 
    buying the entire henckel set, but I don't think that's necessary.
    (Frankly the very _idea_ of the num$bers involved bowle me over!)
    
    Which of your knives do you treasure most?  I already know I need
    a new parer (probably the 3 inch).  In the past I have always bought
    inexpensive (Ginsu 2000 sounds about right) knives because I was unsure
    about my roommates throwing them in the dishwasher or using them to 
    cut through cans, etc.  The time has come, what do I ask for?
    
    

    Buy a small paring knife (3" or 4"), a slicing knife (6" or so), a
    chef's knife, a cleaver if you are likely to use one (I don't have a
    good cleaver myself), a boning knife if you are likely to use that. and
    a bread knife.  Those are the ones I use the most.  The paring knife is
    by far the most heavily used knife in our kitchen.  Don't put good
    knives in the dishwasher.
    
    /Charlotte

    I have a 3.5 inch Henckels paring knife that I use for *everything*. 
    In fact, I am considering buying a $60 knife sharpener for the sole
    purpose of keeping a keen edge on that one knife.  I REALLY resisted
    spending the $25 it cost, and now for the life of me I can't figure out
    why.  I can't live without it.
    
    D!

    
>    Which of your knives do you treasure most?  I already know I need
>    a new parer (probably the 3 inch).  In the past I have always bought
>    inexpensive (Ginsu 2000 sounds about right) knives because I was unsure
>    about my roommates throwing them in the dishwasher or using them to 
>    cut through cans, etc.  The time has come, what do I ask for?

well, in my chicago cutlery set, the most often sharpened knives, in order,
are:
	small paring kife
	6 inch utility
	8-9 inch thin blade utility knife

the big carvers are used infrequently as I seldom eat anything carveable...    
    

My most-used knives are the 3.5" paring knife, and the 8" chef's knife.
The 10" chef's is almost as frequently used (for chopping large
quantities of herbs). The steel is a must (unless you already have a
steel which is well-matched to the particular allow of the Henckels
blades -- this is important).

However, my wife uses a different combination much more frequently: she
uses the 3.5" paring knife, a 6" blade whose name I don't know
(shallower than a chef's, but deeper than a paring), and the 8" chef's.
She very rarely uses the 10" chef's knive (too long for her taste).

Neither of us use the boning/filet knife much, finding that the 3.5"
paring knife is better for boning (we don't do much fileting, but the
filet knife is best at that).

So it's pretty clear from our use that the 3.5" paring, the 8" chef's,
and the steel are the most used. I would be thrilled to receive this
set as a gift (if I didn't already own them :-).

    Danielle, you really use a Ginsu knife?  I hope you don't also use
    Durasheers.  :-)
    
    I use a 3" Henckels a lot, though I prefer my 2 1/2 to 3" Chicago
    parer. It has a blde that's barely 1/4" to 3/8" wide.  You can really
    make some fine little cuts, holes, whatever with it.  It think the best
    bread knife I've ever used is a Chicago about 10" or so.  There's
    an awesome Chicago slicer too.  So, one asks, if I think so much of
    Chicago, why do I have Henckels on the counter?  Don't ask, I wonder
    myself.  I think the 6" cook's knife is super for chopping and the 10"
    Chef's is great for dicing.
    
    I find myself using a sharpening steel more often and better.  (25
    years ago I worked as a meat cutting person.)
    
    ed

> So, one asks, if I think so much of
>    Chicago, why do I have Henckels on the counter?  Don't ask, I wonder
>    myself.

 Well, you can always give the ones you don't use often to your neighbor. :-)

    with the car keys?

Re Chicago, I've used many of these, and find them to be excellent
value. For long periods, though, I prefer the Henckels (because of
balance and weight -- the Chicago blades are quite decent). But this is
a very subjective thing, and I wouldn't recommend that someone spend
extra money until they've tried the Chicago knives. The Henckels make a
fancier gift, though, and the handles will last longer (we're talking
about 50 years here folks).

    Can someone recommend a really *good* pair of kitchen shears?  I know
    Henckel make some - any good?  Where could I get them?
    
    Thanks,
    Diana

    Lechmere carries a full line of Henckles products.  They should have
    the shears, too.
    
    I finally broke down and bought a Henckles sharpener.  Although I've
    used a steel for a long time, I never enjoyed it.  Metal on metal
    sounds work on me like fingernails on a blackboard.  So, while it was
    on sale for $21 (ouch!), I got it.  It's comfortable to hold, and easy
    to use, and puts a razor edge on the knives without even trying.  I
    doubt if I'll ever use my steel again.  The only real drawback, is that
    it's kinda bulky, so it jams the drawer if it's not placed right.

  The only thing I would worry about with using a sharpener exclusively
  is how much metal it removes. Any impressions, JP?

    re: removing metal:  How do you think professional meat cutters
    get filleting knives?    and paring knives?  :=)
    
    Of course, they have their knives ground every week too.
    
    Diana, I use a Henckels kitchen shears for things like cutting through
    chicken.  Works fine.
    
    ed

>    with the car keys?

 Eeef you eenseest, se�or! 8^)

 Tell you what- if you throw in the car keys I'll show you where the morels
grow.  :-)

It appears to remove very little metal, if you can go by the lack of 
residue in the sharpener, and on the paper towel I wipe the blade with.

What I found interesting was the first time I used it, the knife apparently
had lots of little, barely visible knicks.  Dragging it thru the sharpener the
first couple of times, it almost felt like it was a serrated blade.  After about
3-4 times, the knife slide thru without a catch.  At that point all I had to do
was rest it on the veggies!

So, I suppose it does remove some metal, and maybe in 30 years, I'll have a 10"
filletting knife, but that's 30 years of not having to set my teeth on edge to
get an edge on the knife.

Interesting.

I know what you mean about the little nicks. If you hold a knife at
just the right angle (edge facing you) under a bright light, you can
see these nicks and flat spots (they reflect light like little
mirrors). I find that this is a better indication of the sharpness of
the blade than any test with my fingers or on food. I make sure (by
using the steel after every use) that none of our knives have any nicks
or flat spots.

Knives acquire nicks and flat spots when:

- they're used on any surface other than a wood or plastic cutting surface
- they hit any metal, glass or ceramic utensil
- we have visitors who use them (cringe!!!)

and finally

- they're used to cut bone

This last problem doesn't annoy me, because you do have to use the
knives -- they're not for decoration. And bone nicks are minor and can
be removed easily with a couple of zips on the steel.

The damage done by knife-ignorant visitors is the worst!!! I hide them
when we have house guests. Not to mention that several guests have
managed to amputate bits of finger at our house - people just don't
expect knives to be sharp.

    So what is "steel"?  I have a long sharpening rod that I got with my
    Henckels set that i have never used because I'm not sure how and I
    don't want to damage my knives.  How does the Henckels sharpener differ
    from this, or is that rod what you meant?
    
    Every 6 months or so, or whenever my 3 inch parer gets unbearable
    dull, whichever comes first, I go over to Mom's and sharpen all my
    knives on her Chefmaster Electric Knife Sharpener, which I got for her
    for Christmas last year.  I can't afford my own one of those fancy
    types...what can I do to keep an edge on them in the meantime for less?
    
    D!, knife ignorant

>    Every 6 months or so, or whenever my 3 inch parer gets unbearable
>    dull, whichever comes first, I go over to Mom's and sharpen all my
>    knives on her Chefmaster Electric Knife Sharpener,

 <Cringe> That takes an awful lot of metal off the knife, D! Your expensive
Henckels will need to be replaced much sooner if you continue to do this.
You're better off using a handheld instrument of one sort or another to
hone your blades.

 There are three main types of sharpeners that I would consider. The easiest
to use is the "butterfly" type. This class of devices has two small stones
or pieces of ceramic set at an appropriate angle to sharpen most kitchen knives.
You merely draw the blade through this v notch several times and voil�! A sharp
blade.

 Another type uses a clamp for the knife blade and stones with protruding
metal rods which are used to put a "precise" angle on your blades. There
are several angles available. These work really well. I have a LASKY set,
with diamond blades.

 The last type is just a stone, usually from arkansas. You need to be relatively
skilled to use these effectively as you have to hold the blade at the angle
you want. I have several of these as well.

 I would never, ever subject a Henckel to a grinding wheel type knife sharpener.

 And to answer your earlier question, yes, a steel is that metal rod that came
with your set. You use it for fine honing.

 The Doctah

    As far as which knives to go for, I exist almost exclusively on a 4"
    parer (or maybe it's actually 3.5"; I thought they only came in 3" and
    4" so I'm not sure now), an 8" chef's knife, a bread knife, and a
    sharpening steel.  I could get along without the bread knife if I had
    to; I can't imagine going without either of the other two.  I also have 
    a 10" carving knife which is great for watermelons and large squashes, 
    but gets used a *lot* less than the others.  I agree with the person
    that said the chef's knife plus a parer and a sharpening steel would
    make a great gift.  Yes!  (Henckels makes a set with those three and
    the 10" carver, which is how I got started.  I got them one day when I
    was trying to shop off some anger, and spent the rest of the weekend
    therapeutically chopping most of the food items in my fridge.  It was
    great.)
    
    If I could add more to the collection, I'd go for a 3" parer (mostly
    because it's handy sometimes to be able to have 2 people paring at once, 
    and because while I'm glad my one parer is a 4", there is the
    occasional job for which a shorter one would be more convenient), and a 
    6" utility knife, in that order.
    
    Re: honing, if you hone the knife every time before you use it it will
    stay sharper.  I trot my knives to a knife store for real sharpening -
    I'm paranoid I'll mess up the blades if I do it myself.  If you also
    buy your knives at knife stores (for gifts, for example), you can
    frequently bargain with them for free sharpening certificates, which 
    you can then lose at your leisure. :-) 
    
    	Sharon
    

	Talk about knife ignorant...I haven't sharpened one in 2.5 years!
	My Chicago cutlery paring knife doesn't feel dull, though...

	Cara

>	Talk about knife ignorant...I haven't sharpened one in 2.5 years!
>	My Chicago cutlery paring knife doesn't feel dull, though...

  You can't tell much by feel unless you compare two knives (dull and
  razor sharp) side by side. Your paring knife is probably pretty dull,
  but it depends what you need it to do. If you mostly cut vegetables,
  it doesn't have to be too sharp. But it's hard to do boning or
  fileting (or, more typically, just cutting up a chicken) with a dull
  knife. A sharp knife makes mincing stuff like herbs and garlic a lot
  easier, too. Once you get used to sharp knives, you get spoiled.

    I find a good measure of sharpness is slicing through the skin of a
    pepper.  Don't pierce it first with the point of the knife, just make
    repeated thin slices on the skin side.  A sharp paring knife will
    slit-slit-slit just about that fast.  A dull one will occasionally
    not break the skin and require an extra push.  Any knife can start on
    the pulp side but a sharp one goes where it wants too.
    
    ed

    
    	I have never done this yet, but...
    
    	the meat department at Shaws (and I suspect most other
    	supermarkets) will sharpen your knives at no charge.
    
    -rjc-

I think mt steel (metal rod with handle) is a Henckels.  The easiest way to use 
is to put the point down on a cutting board, and hold the handle about 15-20
degrees off vertical.  Then make slicing motions down and towards you with the 
knife, drawing it against the steel.  Don't lean the blade at all.  This is the
easiest way for anyone to get the tight angle needed for honing with a steel.

The Hanckels sharpener I bought is a black plastic device that is mostly handle.
It's a big comfortable handle that you hold (in your left hand) down on the 
counter.  On the right end, is a V notch that you draw the blade thru with your
right hand.  In the notch are 2 ceramic disks that do all the work.

Regarding sharpness, if you hold the knife between 2 fingers at the butt end,
and draw it across a pepper or tomato (using NO downward pressure other than the
weight of the knife), a sharp knife will cut the veg, a less than sharp knife 
will ride up and over, maybe denting it slightly.

    I have heard that Wustof knives are made by Henckels using the same
    materials,  methods and quality as the Henckels brand, but they are much 
    less expensive. Sort of like the Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge scenario. We
    have the Wustofs and find them to be excellent (and my husband is VERY
    picky about hsi knives!)
    
    Debbie
    

    I use my chineese cleaver more than any other knife (I have walnut
    collection from Chicago).. best rated by Consumers.  It will slice,
    smash, stir, be a spatula, carry chopped stuff to the pan etc... and I
    use the steel on it every time.
    
    BTW to get a good angle take a corner of paper (90 degrees) fold in
    half once (45 d) and fold again (22.5 d).. this is a pretty good angle
    to sharpen, steel a knife to.

Re Wustof = Henckels, this is possible, but I'd be surprised. I've been
in Solingen, where both are made, and nowhere does one have any clue
that these might be made by the same company (not even in the very fine
print at the bottom of the literature). Also, the metals used for the
blades are very different alloys.

Where did you hear this? Does anyone know for sure?

    	I'd be very surprised that Wusthof is made by Henckels too, it's
    	the first time ever I've heard such a thing. They feel very
    	different in my hands (esp. the metal).

    	I swear by my Henckels knives! I know I'm unorthodox but I use my
    	10" chef knife the most. I just like the way it feels in my hands,
    	the weight and balance plays out right (for me). So I use it for
    	most everything. The Henckels are a real treat to use.  So far I've
    	just had to use the Henckels sharpening steel and I've been OK.
    	Though every once in a while I notice Henckels sends people to
    	various stores (like Filene's & Kitchen Ect) who offer free
    	'expert' knife sharpening. Next time I see one I'll get my most-
    	used knives done... 

    	I have two sets of cheaper Tri-star (Korean?) knives as well,
    	surprisingly they work pretty well for being inexpensive carefree
    	knives. They are handy. I can dirty them for something quick and
    	not care/worry about throwing them into the dishwasher. Convenient 
    	when a lot is going on in the kitchen at once...

    	But my Henckels are like gold to me. Nobody gets to touch them...  
    	Well, except maybe an expert Henckels sharpener. :-)

    	-Erik
    
    

    Question: Where do you keep these wonderfully-sharp knives? Magnetic
    strip (my current choice - knives are out of the way yet easy to find,
    the rack doesn't take up counter space, etc.), wooden "knife block," a
    drawer? And are any of these better at preserving the knives, or are
    the differences mainly matters of convenience, safety, personal
    taste...
    
    -b

We use a knife block. It's convenient and safe (blades not exposed),
while protecting the blades against damage. A drawer is obviously the
worst choice.

	We just stick 'em in the cat.  He doesn't seem to mind much,
	and it makes us feel better.


	Di

    We use a knife block for the carving knives, chefs knife, serrated bread
knife, steel etc, but use a magnetic strip mounted by the sink for the paring 
knives.  It's a nice combination that protects the heavy tools, but allows the
lighter knives we use/wash many times a day everyday to be closer to where we do
the work.


Al

    re: .45 - That was *funny*!!
    
    re: Magnetic strips - what are they? I've only used blocks and the
    (don't beat me) drawers.
    
    ~beth

                       -< What are the Magnetic Strips? >-

beth,

    If you go into any of the "kitchen stores" you can find the magnetic
strips.  They are usually wood 2" wide and come in 12", 15", or 18" lengths.  
They have 2 strips of magnet imbedded in the wood (the long way).  You mount
the magnetic strip to a wall and then "stick" your knives to the magnet.

    These only work with carbon steel or the better quality stainless knives.
The stainless knives (Chicago Cutlery, Henkels etc) don't stick as well as
the carbon steel, which is one reason why I put the heavier knives in the
block instead...

    Another place you might find them is at a hardware store where they are
sold as "tool holders", same thing just different target buyer.

Al

    I keep my knives in a knife block - no room in my kitchen for a
    magnetic thing.  If you have spare drawer space (SPARE drawer space? 
    You must be joking!) you can get a knife-block like insert for a
    drawer.  If you keep loose knives in a drawer, they will bang around
    and get knicked and dulled, as well as being potentially dangerous when
    you are rummaging through the drawer trying to find a particular one.
    
    /Charlotte

    Beth,
    
    You mean Kris has not been by to sell you knives?  They have all these
    devices and I love my cutco knives.  Took all the old ones and gave
    them to the trash collector.
    
    I have to admit though I keep them in the drawer but with the cardboard
    covers on them.  The block takes up to much room on the counter and
    collects dust/kitchen dirt.  They also have the on the wall cases.
    
    Judie
    
    

When I was looking at cabinetry, I saw a neat option that was basically a 
slotted backsplash.  It allowed you to store the knives block-style in the
space at the back of your counter.  The only drawback for me would be having to 
move the cuisinart, the toaster oven, the beanpot full of spoons and spatulas,
and so on to be able to see the back of the counter...

Oh well, so many apppliances, so little space.

	Judie,

	How long have you had your Cutco knives?  We just bought a set last night.  The
	demo was *great*!

	Terri

    Hi,
    
    My daughter sold these last summer, so I guess I have had them since
    about June, 92.
    
    The demo is great, especially cutting the rawhide and twine with
    your best knives.
    
    I bought only 3 knives, paring, the small (she would kill me if she
    heard me refer to it as this ) cirated knife and the large carving
    knife.  (I think these cirated knife blades are called patented cutco
    double d blades)
    
    Since June the only knives other than the cutco I have used are 
    steak knives and my ginsu.
    
    
      Judie
    

I've always been curious about the Cutco demo -- never had it. Our
knives are always kept sharper than new, and I doubt the Cutco knives
would be any sharper, so I've sort of been hoping for the opportunity
to take on the Cutco challenge.

    Will someone please post the name/address of a Cutco dealer? I'd like
    to replace some of mine.
    
    

Many of you have requested the info from the Cutco forever Guarantee.  Here it 
is including their Customer Service address and phone number.  

My daughter said that if any of you that are in the Southern NH and
greater Marlboro area are interested in purchasing CUTCO products, she
would be happy to give you the demo.  You could send me mail and I will
forward the info to her.

Please note, that this is NOT an advertisement for the product.  This info
has been entered at the request of several of the COOKS noters.

Judie


                       CUTCO FOREVER GUARANTEE

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We want every CUTCO customer to be a satisfied customer FOREVER.  The 
guarantee has several important elements.

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If at any time within fifteen (15) days after receipt of your CUTCO 
you are not satisfied with your purchase for any reason you may get 
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call us toll-free at 1-800-828-0448 for customer assistance, product advice

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1116 East State Street
Olean, NY 14760

    I also use the butcher block to store our knives, but the secret is to 
    store the knives with the blades facing up so that each time you take
    one out (or put one in) the blade does not scrape against the block.
    
    
    Jo

    My butcher blocks all have the blades in a horizontal position so that
    they never rest on the blade.
    
    ed

> store the knives with the blades facing up so that [...]
> the blade does not scrape against the block.

I used to do that, too, for the same reason. But, in principle, it
shouldn't hurt, because wood won't damage the blade in any way. So for
years, I've stored them edge any way it happened to go in, and the
blades are as sharp as ever. Note: I don't "cut" the wood when
replacing/removing the knife by sliding the blade along the bottom of the slot.

    Well I've got the type that slides into a black plastic case that has a
    self-sharpener in it (every time you slide it out it sharpens).  That
    whole thing gets put into the drawer.  They can also be mounted if you
    prefer.  I believe they're made by Wilkinson.
    
    I bought mine at Spag's (Shrewsbury, MA).  
    
    Rgds,
    marcia

Is the Henckels mentioned in this note same Henckels as what I've got ?

It's J.A. Henckels Solingen Germany as written on the knife with a sort of
plastic handle and no three screws like stuff on the handle. They are cheaper
than the Westof Trident and slimmer; Trident are much thicker and heavier I
suppose. I'm in Australia and Westof is all over the good shops.

From the notes, looks like more people are using Henckels than Westof. So you
mean, more expensive doesn't mean better in terms of knives ?

I'm not sure if Henckels line of knives available all over the world is
standard. But I got my paring knife from Hongkong and the others from here
exactly same style.

Wondering ehy you call them Henckels Four not just Henckels...

What other European brands are good aside from Henckels, Westof and Sabatier ?

Thanks,
Arlene

    Henckels and JA Henckels Solingen Germany are the same.  However,
    Henckels makes a range of products of varying quality.  Henckels Four
    Star has four stars on the handle and is (or used to be) their "top of
    the line."  Henckel's "professional" actually appears to be the next
    rung down on the ladder (not quite as high quality as the four star). 
    It appears that you might have a lesser quality Henckels (that I've not
    even seen here in the US), if there are not rivets in the handles.
    
    Does your Henckels work for you?  If you like it and it's less
    expensive, keep buying the brand!  I don't have Westof, only Henckels
    and Sabatier (which also has a quality range, and I'm not sure they're
    still around).
    
    
    Susan  

I've just seen pictures of Henckels Four Star from the bits and pieces of
promo papers my sister sent to me from the States, Four Star has no rivets !!!
Is this true or not ?

It only has red markings of Henckels etc... and the four stars but no rivets.

Please confirm. The 3 or 4 inch paring knife $19.99

Is this correct ?

Thanks,
Arlene - who's determined to get her set of Genuine Four Star

    ok, I'll admit to being a yuppy :-).  MY FOUR STAR has no rivets.
    The slightly lower priced Henckels has the rivets but it's not
    Four Star.
    
    ed