Conference turris::cooks

I admit to not having given this subject much thought or research. If I
had, I probably would grow my own fruit. I just rinse in warm or cold
water and don't think much about it.

But here's one data point: friends of ours from San Salvador and
Argentina say that no educated person in those countries eats the peel
of any fruit produced there. They wash and peel all fruit before
eating, including grapes. For items like lettuce, they throw away the
outer several layers. They further said that if you knew much about the
growing and handling practises in the Latin countries, you would do the
same, or more likely, not eat fruit at all. As you probably know, a
large proportion of the fruit sold in the US during the off-season
comes from Central and South America. In principle, it all meets strict
standards set and enforced by the Food & Drug Administration, which,
like the rest of the executive branch, is immune to any pressure from
powerful special-interest groups. [<- sarcasm]

    I don't like that waxy stuff on fruit either, and it wasn't
    coming off too easily with just a rinse of water.  I found a 
    fruit and vegetable all-natural "cleaner" in my Seventh 
    Generation catalog.  I bought that and a couple of the little 
    scrub brushes (very gentle ones) and have used it ever since.  
    Seventh Generation is very eco-friendly - all their stuff is 
    natural, recycled, or recyclable.  I don't remember what's in 
    the cleaner, but it works great, doesn't leave an after taste 
    (like when you don't get all the dish soap off).  If you want
    to order a catalog, or talk to the people at Seventh Generation
    their toll-free number is 1-800-456-1197.
    
    Conni
    
    

    In the summer, I grow as many veggies as I can.  And since I use
    pesticides in a VERY limited manner, I don't consider that a problem.
    But I have always been concerned about what I buy at the market.  They
    insist that the wax they put on things won't harm you, but I still
    don't like the idea.  I will be calling that Seventh Generation company
    for their catalog.  But in the meantime, do you have any information
    about what type of organization/business they are?  What affiliations,
    if any?  I have never heard of it.
     

    If it concerns you a lot, why don't you buy organic vegetables and
    fruits?  Costs more, but perhaps it would pay for itself in peace of
    mind.  Check Bread and Circus...
    
    Diana

re: Seventh Generation catalog

please post a phone number if you have it.

re: pesticides

while it may make you feel much better to wash your fruits and veggies, the
real problem is with systemic pesticides - and washing doesn't get rid of them.
They are controlled in argribusiness practices in this country, however, they
are not controlled in other countries.  What you can do is wash everything
you eat or peel if washing is impractical...and don't buy out-of-season fruits
or veggies.  I know, this is painful, but if you are deeply concerned about
the problem, you want to avoid fruits and veggies from other countries...and
those are the ones you see "off-season" on the market shelves.  So, if it
isn't summer, don't eat fresh tomatoes, for instance, as you know they aren't
grown in the USA.  Ask your local market to clearly mark out-of-country
sourced foods and their country of origin....and, be very careful to avoid
soft-fleshed fruits/veggies from S. American countries -- this is where we
are dumping the toxic chemicals we can no longer use on our USA grown crops.

Not a pretty picture, et?

RE: .1

The problem in Latin America is cholera and other bacterial contamination,
not pesticides.

--PSW

You're right about the main concern (by far) in these countries being
cholera, but our friends tell us that the use of pesticides is also
more of a problem than in the US. If the bugs don't get you, the
chemicals will.

But let's not be too quick to assume that locally-grown products are
safe. Remember alar in apple juice? There are still legal uses of
pesticide in the US which may be potentially a problem, and there are
very probably plenty of illegal or shady practises going on, too.

I honestly believe that if you're serious about trying to control what
you eat, you have to grow it yourself. That's the *best* you can do,
and you can't even totally control that. Buying stuff which is
represented as "organically grown" is one step back, and adds some
element of risk. Buying US-grown is yet another step back, with more risk.

Considering all that, I feel that an acceptable risk is to just rinse
well and forget about it. You can get ulcers from worrying about it, too.

    This may be a dumb question but can anyone tell me what fruits are from
    foreign countries during the winter?  I assume apples and oranges are
    grown in the US, but what is definitely not??
    
    Thanks

    Seventh Generation will send a catalog when you send $2.00
    to 49 Hercules Drive
       Colchester, VT 05446-1672
    

    re: -.9
    
    I think some vegetables/fruits are bell peppers, chiles (different
    varieties), and pineapples. I have a question though, is it possible
    for pesticides to be drawn into fruits and vegetables?
    
    --- Gavin

Stuff which is "drawn into" the plant in order to work is called a
"systemic" agent. While these exist, as far as I know, they're not used
very often, usually because they're not very effective against most
pests, compared to stuff which is applied directly to the pest.

However, many pesticides are also drawn into the plant's system, where
they have little or no effect on the pest, but can poison people. In
principle, use of these is regulated, and you can't apply them later
than a couple of weeks before harvest, so that they'll have dissipated
by the time of harvest. There are quite a few "ifs", though. Even if
it's applied no later than the recommended date, will the food still be
safe? Do they really know how long it takes for the food to be safe? Do
all growers follow the rules? Does weather have any effect on how long
it takes? Etc.

>    This may be a dumb question but can anyone tell me what fruits are from
>    foreign countries during the winter?  I assume apples and oranges are
>    grown in the US, but what is definitely not??
    
soft fleshed fruits like peaches, plums, apricots, and nectarines that are
sold during the coldest months - oranges that are not marked as California
or florida grown (sunkist label is pretty safe) and which are sold in late
summer or early fall (oranges are sold during the winter and into the spring).
Tropical fruits like papaya, etc. sold anytime in most places - although
some tropical fruits can be grown in florida, I don't believe a significant
amount of them are grown for commercial sale.  Get a local seasonal growing
chart at the nursery...and buy when the fruits and veggies are "in season"..
If you can find it where you are, Sunset Magazine offers many such useful
charts each year and you can figure out what to buy that is grown in the
USA anywhere - thereby avoiding the foreign fruits and veggies.  

While water polution is greater in some countries, the real threat to your 
health, and, in particular, you children's health, from fruits and vegetables 
from other countries IS the practice of "dumping" unacceptably risky pesticides
and weed control chemicals in other countries when they can not be sold in
the USA and Canada.  This is a common business practice of virtually all
major chemical manufacturers in this country.  It is legal.  And you are
eating those pesticides/chemicals in the produce you buy at the market.
While it may not ever have a negative effect on your health, there is a
reason for concern for young children as they are getting a much larger
accumulative dose of chemicals than we ever will have.  

I don't buy organic all the time as it often is shipped too far by the time
I get it and has no shelf life left, but I seldom buy what is grown outside 
the USA.  If I had a child, I'd be even more careful.

re: the "wax" sealant on fruits and veggies - I am somewhat doubtful that it
has an animal base...that would make it attractive to insects and it serves
as both a barrier to moisture loss and insect damage.  The coatings I am
aware of are not animal, but mineral based...not heathly at all.

    An earlier noter mentioned buying organic produce in the supermarket.
    While organic produce protects you from chemicals applied in the field, it
    does not offer complete protection.  
    
    I read in a book called Eating Clean that "pest management" techniques 
    (including pesticides) are used in warehouses and supermarkets. In this
    way, organic produce can become contaminated (and regular produce can
    become even *more* contaminated).  
    
    For this reason, I'd be wary of "organic" claims at regular supermarkets.  
    Supposedly, specialty supermarkets such as Bread and Circus go to great 
    lengths to ensure their produce remains organic.  
                                                

    When I lived in the Middle East for a while I washed ALL fruit and veg
    in Milton (used for sterilising babies botles in the UK) before use.
    This obviously wouldn't have any effect on chemicals but killed off any
    bugs that were around.
    
    Now that I'm back in the UK I don't bother - just wash the stuff in
    water - though perhaps I should do more with out-of-season stuff which
    is imported.
    
    Or maybe I should just carry on as I am on the basis that if the
    chemicals don't get me then something else will!
    
    Mary
    

    The shellac that is applied to some fruits and that forms the hard
    candy coating on M&M's and similar products is made from beetles. I
    have a friend who is an engineer/chemist for the company that produces
    the coating for most of these products in the US. As far as he knows,
    nothing in the process or in the coating is unsafe for people. I guess
    they do animal studies to make sure that this continues to be the case.
    
    So, are insects taboo for vegitarians/vegans?
    
    	Marty Sasaki

Wow -- shellac from insects used on M&Ms? I always thought it was pure
sugar ... live and learn. (I don't mind insects, as long as they're
dead when I eat 'em).

    A few notes back, someone mentioned using bleach in water on
    fruits/vegs.  An holistic Dr. I go to has always recommended soaking
    fruits/veg's. in 1 tbsp. Clorox bleach to one gallon of water for 5
    minutes.  This gets rid of any surface pesticides/toxins (which would
    attach to your intestine walls - that is a whole subject in itself) as
    well as keeping the fruits/veggies fresher.   Without the constant
    "supply of toxins" we keep supplying our intestines, the intestine wall
    would shed it's "Toxic buildup" and work more properly.  After all, we
    do all of the absorbing of vitamins, minerals, "poisions", etc. through
    our intestines.  Since doing this, I have not had one cold, flu,
    stomach ache.  Even when everyone around me was getting the flu, I did
    great.
    
    I'm convinced the bleach does help do something right.

    
    	When I was with my ex-husband stationed in Tripoli,
    	Libya in the 60's,the government stressed that we wash all 
    	locally purchased food in water containing bleach. This was to 
    	kill the the local pesticides/toxins. It
    	seemed to work as 
    the people who followed the directions
    	seldom had intestine problems called "the Tripoli trots" :-)
    
      

�This was to 
�    	kill the the local pesticides/toxins. It
�    	seemed to work as 
�    the people who followed the directions
�    	seldom had intestine problems called "the Tripoli trots" :-)
    
    Sounds like it was more to control a bacterial problem.

Right. No kind of "trots" would likely be caused by pesticides, and
bleach wouldn't be much more effective than warm water at removing
them. Bleach does a great job of killing cholera, typhoid, and other
stuff in filthy water, though.

On the other hand, there might be some nasty pesticides in Libya, too.

    
    	RE: -1
    
    		...and there is also a very nasty pest named Khadafy.
    
    	(sorry... I couldn't resist that one)

    Actually, it's the small quantity of bleach in your fruit now
    that wipes clean that intestinal wall of toxins and chases down those
    nasty cold and flu viruses.  I myself just wear the cap of a clorox
    bottle on a string around my neck, and I never get colds either.
    
    :)
    
    Peigi