Conference turris::cooks

You're right that you won't get botulism because that bacterium can't
live in acid. Other things can, though, such as yeasts and some other
molds, but, to my knowledge, none of them are fatal, and it would take
many months or years before they could even make you sick. If your
bottles were dishwasher-clean (or equivalent), I don't think there's a
problem. But I'm not a qualified expert on this ... any other opinions?

As long as the vinegar permeates everything, and that's sure to happen with
something as small as garlic cloves, there won't be any problem with
botulism.  The botulism bacterium can't live in either an acidic environment
or one with free oxygen present.  Since vinegar is both highly acidic and
can dissolve oxygen, you're safe on both counts.  Storing garlic cloves
in oil is dangerous ecause the oil seals off the garlic from oxygen and
garlic cloves by themselves aren't acidic enough to prevent Clostridium
botulinum from growing.

--PSW

    Thanks for the information.  
    
    I think it's important to note that although us 'cooks' love to
    experiment with food, economize in preparing meals and make gifts....
    there is always some potential danger in preparing food.
    
    I collect cook books and watch a lot of cooking shows but I don't
    honestly hear/read a lot about the hazards.  I wonder how many
    people know about cross contamination, salmonella, botulism,
    etc.?  This may be getting off the track some but could be valuable 
    information none-the-less.
    
    I now feel comfortable in making the vinegars to consume as well as
    giving away.  
    
    
     

    Re the cooking shows: I'd dearly love to see a cooking show that used a
    normal kitchen and a normal supply of pots, pans, cutting surfaces,
    etc., so they could demonstrate the most efficient ways of getting
    things done, safely, without using every pan in the house. Most of the
    shows I see show either professional chefs in a huge kitchen, or "TV
    chefs" with an optimized-for-television kitchen (and an invisible staff
    of helpers)...
    
    I know, this would have limited appeal, and is probably something that
    should be taught in Home Ec., instead of the umpteen different muffin
    recipes we got. ;-) But I'd really like to see a "how to plan and
    prepare one normal meal at a time, in a kitchen very like your own"
    show. [Hmmm. Maybe public access? Or - no, last cooking show I saw
    there consisted of two women who talked at the countertop instead of
    the mike, so you couldn't hear a word they said...]
    
    -b

 RE: -1

    I agree and would like to add that the cooking show use foods normally
 found in the kitchen. I'm not interested in recipes using specialty foods.
 My food budget has no room for this kind of expenditure.

   Capers are things that criminals are involved in. 8-)


  - Bob

    I saw 'Today's Gourmet' (Jaques Pepin) - about a month ago and he made
    a meal - from beginning to end (he set a timer) - because he got
    letters from people saying that a meal he makes in 22 minutes on
    T.V. - took them 4 days.  It was much easier to follow - even 
    through his thick French accent.
    
    As much as I love cook books and cooking shows - they do have a certain
    'air' about them - perhaps they try to make something look so easy
    that people will buy their book - thus making them rich!  Nice sales
    gimmick.
    
    In talking with a fellow-worker, I offered to have classes in my home
    to teach the basics - complete with a trip to the supermarket.  She
    would love to learn to cook but was intimidated by cook books and lost
    interest (fast...I might add) in those cooking shows.  She didn't
    have the utensils and couldn't afford to buy any new ones and didn't 
    have the faintest idea of what a stalk of asparagas was from a 
    shallot.
    
    I don't believe Home Economics is the same as it used to be (when I
    was a teen-ager in the 50's) and although educators have
    pushed nutricious meals - a lot of people still don't know the
    basics of cooking.
    
    Anybody got any good ideas?
    
    
                       

    How about a game show where the object is to select the most economical
    combination of ingredients that will produce <n> balanced meals - extra
    points for innovation, good use of color and texture, etc. [Might be
    hard to find a sponsor, though! "What, no prepared foods? Nothing with
    fancy packaging? No high-ticket items???"]
    
    Or maybe just a board game - seems like one could make a very colorful
    board and pieces, with variations for different age groups, dietary
    preferences, etc. Basic-food-group charts for the kiddies, actual
    nutritional info for grown-ups; add enough humor, and it might even
    fly. [Hmmmm... So, anybody know any entrepreneurs? ;-)]
    
    Or a Random Meal Generator: a set of dice, one with a different meat on
    each face, one for orange veggies, one for green-leafy, one for fruit,
    and so forth.  (If you use the polyhedral dice you can get 20 or more
    sides, surely enough for a decent selection.) [I'm beginning to enjoy
    this.] You could take 'em shopping; imagine stopping in front of the
    meat counter and rolling a die. "What, steak AGAIN?"
    
    ;-)
    
    -b

    Well, to keep this topic further along the tangent, there are plenty of
    cooking shows and cookbooks that cater to all stages of a person's
    culinary expertise.  Novices can pick up the Betty Crocker Picture
    Cookbook and see old standbys prepared step by step through
    photographs.  Bon Apetite magazine usually uses this approach for one
    recipe each issue -- a recipe that is traditionally considered to be
    beyond that of the average homeowner.  Jeff Smith's books and shows do
    a good job of at least telling you what the exotic ingredients are and
    how to get them.  Many of the larger supermarkets are carrying
    ingredients that used to be found only in specialty stores.  Mike
    somebody or other, a food and travel writer from a Pittsburgh paper,
    has a PBS cooking show and cookbook called "The Travelling Gourmet". 
    He claims to have adapted recipes from some of the finest restaurants
    around the world to the average American kitchen.  He says that if he
    couldn't find the ingredient in a Pittsburgh supermarket, he found a
    way around it.
    
    Look around, don't be intimidated, and feel free to experiment.  I
    never had Home Ec in school and am not the least bit intimidated by
    the kitchen.  I do alot of the cooking in my household and my cookbook
    collection takes up a couple of shelves on a good sized bookcase.
    
    Keith

    
    As others in this note have implied; it really depends on one's
    own level of culinary expertise. While the suggestions in the last
    note would be of great use to a person who has SOME experience,
    it would not necessarily help those with little or none.
    
    The games suggested in another reply would be great for someone who
    a) likes games (I'm not a fan) or (b) is a reasonably unpracticed cook.
    
    Its much like Software (I support the stuff on the phones to the
    customers here at the Canadian CSC) the more of a beginner you are,
    the better both the tools AND the stuff you are creating (in this
    case working with the ingredients) have to be described. I find books
    with glossaries of terms in them are VERY helpful.
    
    I agree there is a need for more GENERAL kitchen etiquette and 
    safety to be discussed somewhere (as the basenote implies). That
    would be helpful for all levels of cooking experience. My home-ec
    classes (early 70's) were not much more helpful - we cooked selected
    meals and THAT was THAT (and the BOYS got to do "Shop" instead!)
    
    enough commentary....
    
    Monica

    
    	To continue this line.
    
    
    	One thing to remember about thes cooking shows, and the speed with
    which they can do a complete meal, it's easy to do-as long as you spend
    that 1.5 hr. chopping, slicing, and measuring all of the ingredients
    before you start your timer..!!
    
    	:-)
    
    	

    
    If you want to feel superior, try watching Nathalie Dupree's "New
    Southern Cooking."  It's on the PBS station here in Atlanta.  
    
    Her techniques never seem to work like they're supposed to, she's
    always burning and dropping things, ingredients get omitted, etc.  
    I don't think she means to be funny, but her airy
    commentary--especially when things go wrong, "oh don't worry, just dust
    it off..."--keep me laughing. It's almost like home, except you 
    probably wouldn't do to your hair what she does to hers.  
    
    Mike 

    .10 has a very good point actually. Preparation of the ingredients is
    what takes up the most time in cooking - I would guess I often spend as
    much time on preparation as I spend at the stove, when cooking many
    meals. Jeff Smith, for example, always has a bowl of chopped onions
    handy. That's a significant amount of time "saved" right there.
    
    This is one reason I feel microwave ovens have little value in real
    cooking, because the time actually spent cooking is only a part of the
    overall preparation time. Not that this has ANYTHING to do with garlic
    vinegar.
    
    ...Robert
    

    Maybe we should move these responses to a "Cooking: Theory and
    Practice" topic... 
    
    Nah! ;-)
    
    Re .12 and microwave: I think of it a different way. Often, I find that
    when I'm doing "real" cooking (as opposed to heating things up, for
    which the m'wave is perfect), I get the most benefit out of the
    microwave by using it during the preparation stage. To melt chocolate,
    soften butter (or brick-hard brown sugar), blanch veggies, thaw frozen
    ingredients, de-fat ground beef... Usually saves a bowl or pan or two,
    and considerable time. Too bad it can't clean and chop vegetables,
    though!
    
    -b

Besides having the onion chopped and the garlic minced and the veggies
peeled and the oil in a bottle with a pour spout, the Geoff Smiths et al
have limitless bowls, pans, cups... all within arm's reach. We have to go
to the pantry, move the toaster oven out of the way, take the coupons out
of the top bowl, take out the third nested bowl, put the other bowls
back, put the coupons back, put the toaster oven back... just to get one
"right size" bowl.

They also use gas stoves. I have an electric stove (new), and it takes
minutes to get a pan and butter to a decent temperature.

They might make a meal in 22 minutes, but I can't.

    Oh come on people, is it really so hard?  Granted 22 minutes is
    ridiculous for doing more than a reheat or a tv dinner (especially with
    a toddler hanging on your leg and whining -;)).  But I usually can get
    a fresh cooked dinner on the table in 45 minutes, sometimes even in 30.
    
    As the earlier note alluded, it is important to organize your kitchen
    so that it is organized and you can easily get what you need.  If you
    have enough cabinet space and drawers, it just requires some time and
    thought.  It's harder if your kitchen is small;  Then you have to
    eliminate anything you don't really need.  
    
    Put the commonly used stuff where it's easy to get.  I even put some of
    my cake pans in the basement.  For that birthday or Thanksgiving when I
    need them, I'll go down and remove them from the box.  I got
    rectangular plastic organizers to put in my utensil drawer.  They keep
    things from sliding around and getting tangled up, and the daily stuff
    (such as measuring spoons) stays on top of the pile and doesn't shift
    around.
    
    Store utensil near the area where you use them.  The drawer next to my
    stove holds stirring spoons, spatulas, the wok stirrer, spaghetti
    strainer/spoon.  Frying pans and wok hang over the stove.  Sauce pans
    and covers are in the drawer under the oven.  Etc.  Reorganize if you
    have to.
    
    It's also important to have all your cooking utensils clean.  If they
    are soaking in the sink, and you have to wash them first, there goes 15
    minutes.  I put almost everything in the dishwasher now, to save time. 
    I let it run at night or when I leave for work.
    
    You need to know your own cooking style, and have the utensils that you
    need.  I use a wok a lot, so it hangs over the stove.  I never used my
    crockpot, so it went bye-bye at a garage sale.   Don't hesitate to
    ditch things you don't need, and acquire those you do.  
    
    You can reduce your cutting time by learning how to properly use a
    knife.  Some basic cookbooks will teach you, with photographs.  
    
     - Basically (for a right handed person - reverse for left):  Hold the
    vegetable on the board with your left hand with your fingertips
    slightly curled under.  Using your left knuckes as a guide, cut with
    the knife in your right hand.  Slide your left hand back, without
    changing finger positions, as you cut slices off the vegetable.  
    
    - Bunch the vegetables together.  Do not cut them one at a time.  For
    example, to make carrot sticks, peel if you want, trim the ends, use a
    large unserrated knife to cut it in half the long way.  Place cut side
    down and cut thin slices the long way.  Stack the slices and cut at a
    45% angle.  Bunch together as many as your knife will cut.  Finally,
    cut the carrot horizontally to the length you want.
    
    - When chopping, use the technique described above.  As a final step,
    cut at a 45% angle to your original cut.  To get a fine chop, pile the
    vegetables on the board (you may need to do this in batches), hold the
    knife handle in your right, and hold the top of the blade in your left. 
    Chop up and down rapidly, rotating the pile as you go.
    
    - To chop onions, trim, peel, and slice them first.  Stack the slices,
    cut side down, and use the chopping technique first in 1 direction,
    then in the other.  You will end up with small cubes.
    
    (Note:  I just found a frozen bag of chopped onions at Shaws
    supermarket!  Halleluya!  This is a great labor saver, and saves me
    from weeping into the onions! Also note:  You can buy chopped garlic
    packed in oil in a small jar in the produce section.  Refrigerate after
    opening.  Very handy.  I use canned tomatoes - they're not only
    cheaper, but they don't need to be peeled.  Look around the market and
    see what products can save you time.)
    
    Another pointer that saves time, is washing all the vegetables at one
    time.  Put them in a colander or a large bowl or pot.   Scrub with a
    vegetable brush while running cold water over them.  Do not use a brush
    on delicate vegetables such as mushrooms.  Let them all drain while you
    start cutting.
    
    These are just a few techniques that save time.  I'm happy to share
    ideas if anyone wants.
    
    Laura

    Re .15: Some good ideas - but I chuckled at the part about "having to
    know your own cooking style." Mine generally involves getting in the
    car and driving to the nearest sub shop...
    
    -b the organizationally-challenged

    
    One thing that I find makes for a quick dinner is knowing what you can
    do in advance, and knowing what can be freeze well and be zapped later.
    
    To me, a great cooking course would tell me things like: 
    
    How long can you store cut veggies.
    How long can peeled potatoes sit in water in your fridge.
    How well can cooked items be frozen.
    
    	aud...

    >Oh come on people, is it really so hard?  Granted 22 minutes is
    >ridiculous for doing more than a reheat or a tv dinner (especially with
    >a toddler hanging on your leg and whining -;)).
    
    Huh?  I cook for myself every night, and unless I'm making something
    quite fancy (like having someone over for dinner I want to impress) and
    it generally takes me about 20-30 minutes from when I walk in the door
    to when I eat.  (Granted, I pass on the toddler part of dinner...)
    
    A typical meal for me is, for example, chicken marinated in yogurt-lime
    sauce over rice with steamed brocolli.  Not counting the time to put
    the chicken in the marinade before I leave for work, total cooking time
    is 20 minutes (the bottleneck is the rice.)
    
    And I don't know about anyone else, but I *like* leftovers.  I
    generally cook more than I can eat, and then make something different
    with the leftovers tomorrow.  Leftover rice tonight becomes tomorrow's
    rice pudding, leftover veggies get chopped up and thrown in to soup or
    rice pilaf or an omelette or something.
    
    So yeah, the cooking shows are absurd because they make terribly fancy
    and complicated things in no time flat, but it certainly doesn't take
    that long just to make an ordinary fresh-cooked dinner!
    
    Maybe I'm just not cooking right... :-)
    
    D!

    We have a relatively small kitchen now, but have a monstrous amount
    of kitchen items (he lives alone, she lives alone, then they
    marry and get more kitchen gifts). I have a WALL downstairs thats
    part pantry and part kitchenware storage, all informally stored in
    labelled boxes (the kind the office gets paper in - my favourite size
    for storing EVERYTHING).
    
    We cook big, and freeze a lot - my also LOVES leftovers, but I have
    to watch out, because they might be gone before I want to serve them!
    
    Yes, some of those meals take a long time, some don't. Our omelette
    evenings, for instance, don't take more than 20-30 minutes to 
    prepare (separate fillings for separate tastes, one pan to do it in),
    but it is very work intensive -- I am leaping from task to task 
    when I create them,
    This is in contract to a stew, which may take much longer, but you
    don't have to work for it as much.
    
    As the others have said it takes a combination of a little pre-planning
    and some organization. 
    
    (I can't WAIT until hubby is finished rebuilding the kitchen -- our
    dishwasher sits for sometime now, in a box in the garage -- its
    driving me batty!)
    
    Monica
     

    Agreed, the microwave is very helpful in making fast meals.
    
    Example: Put cut vegetables on a dinner plate and lay skinless,
    boneless, chicken breasts on top.  Drizzle with oil and/or add herbs to
    season.  Cover tightly with plastic.
    
    Sorry - I don't have the cooking time.  My cookbook (Barbara Kafka's
    The_Microwave_Gourmet) is at home.  It is worth getting if you want to
    explore the oven's many uses.
    
    RE:  cook-ahead
    
    Yes.  I get good use out of small meatballs stored in a bag in the
    freezer.  They can go into spaghetti and sauce, or into soup.  My
    toddler loves to eat meatballs.  My husband likes them simmered in beef
    stock (I buy it canned) thickened with cornstarch, over noodles.  Use
    the microwave to defrost them, or leave in the refrigerator when you go
    to work in the am.  You can buy them ready-made or make your own.
    
    Pre-boiled potatos store well in the refrigerator, for making home
    fries.  Never tested their limit, but I would estimate about 7 days.
    
    
    RE:  convenience foods
    
    A must.  Canned, low-salt chicken broth.  
    
    
    RE:  leftovers - also quick
    
    When in doubt, make a big stir-fry in the wok or large frying pan.  Cut
    up the leftover meat, add leftover or frozen vegetables, add a few
    cashew nuts.  Flavoring can range from Wok Oil (garlic and onion
    flavored, available bottled in produce section) to bottled sweet and
    sour sauce to soy sauce, ginger, scallions, and white wine.  I use the
    thick bottom parts of romaine lettuce leaves; pile them on top of the
    cooked mixture, add 1/4 cup water, cover, and simmer over low-med heat.
    
    Laura

    Prepare ahead can be done in quantity as well..
    
    I mostly eat alone and don't much feel like doing a lot of work when I
    get home... (even single guys get fed up).
    
    This weekend (I actualy had a bit of beef that I needed to do something
    with)... so the receipes for beef borgouinnone (sp?) and beef stew are
    much the same and can be done in paralell... two (hundred) different
    meals with almost the same preparation time and effort... all into meal
    size plastic containers.  Cooked squash in zip locks.  Digital turkey
    carved and in meal size portions. (Gravy was frozen in ice-cube trays
    and put into plastic bags.).. usualy a pot of rice in the frig... I
    make a big batch on Sunday morns for my favorite rice and eggs.. lots
    left over.  Meal times during the week for a wide variety of choices
    that I don't have to make until I walk in the door is seldom more than
    20 minutes.